Deryk Engelland Hit On Kruger

[Variable]

I don't think it was a dirty hit originally took Crosby out though. The hockey dinosaur Don Cherry was bragging about how he predicted that Crosby would be out of the game as some sort of response to Cooke's continued dirty play and the league's lack of discipline in it, but it was more like a bad collision than an actual hit that took Crosby out. And then other typical hockey hit/contact that made it worse. Don't see the link between the two. Those sort of incidents can, and have, happened to anyone.

 

[the canadian dream]

I don't think it was one hit that caused Crosby's concussion. He's been a target for a lot of guys in a lot of games. People want to try and narrow it down to the Steckal incident (which I don't think was intentional and frankly looked to be a brief accident). May have been a big part of Crosby's issue but I don't think it was the only on ice incident that has effected him (im no dr though so what the hell do i know?)



I think that one thing that needs to be addressed is it's not always one hit or incident that causes concussions. It can be a combination of a lot of hits. We fans forget this and yes Don Cherry is 100% incorrect in his ideas regarding Crosby. He too is looking for the one hit that caused it and he blames it on the Steckal incident. Which certainly didn't help and may have been a cause but it's really hard seeing that as being intentional as Don likes to yap about.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vGuHLIPoc[/media]

 

[R K]

The orginal hit during the winter classic, which started off his issue above, most certainly would have drawn the attention of Shanaban. No question.



Since then I think there have been three other hits, which have re activated the Concussion issue. Regardless he has been EXTREMELY vocal about players paying attention to how they are hitting on the ice. And his team is apparently not paying attention.



Other than Cooke. I think he actually figured it out when they told him if it happened again he'd be removed from the team. And that thread ONLY came after repeated threats from the NHL and the out cry after Mario's rather strange comments on the Cooke situation.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Victor Hedman hit him in the head the next game after the WC.

 

[R K]

I'm pretty sure he was probably still concussed from the hit in the WC. Remember him wobbling off the ice as it was right at the end of the period. That's were it started for him.



Now it's completely different that the Savard situation where his hit was QUITE intentional.

 

[sth]

I agree with what others are saying. The concussions are just being better identified. But both the NHL and NFL are now facing a crisis because of the increased diagnosis of concussions. The new reality now is players in all contact sports are going to increasingly missing time for concussions. I don't know how they can be prevented. These stricter headshot rules in both sports may help, but short of banning contact they can't be completely stopped. In the long haul it will be beneficial to the players in their post career lives.

 

[R K]

There have been a lot of NHL players come and go. I don't remember any dying of a concussion. Not saying that it's not a serious injury, just saying it's been common in ALL professional sports for a long time.



They are compensated very well for their years of playing a game as a career.

 

[dlrob315]

There have been a lot of NHL players come and go. I don't remember any dying of a concussion. Not saying that it's not a serious injury, just saying it's been common in ALL professional sports for a long time.



They are compensated very well for their years of playing a game as a career.

People don't die of diabetes and people don't die of HIV.

 

[R K]

People don't die of diabetes and people don't die of HIV.

They most certainly did and still do where HIV/Aids is concerned.

 

[dlrob315]

They most certainly did and still do where HIV/Aids is concerned.

No.. they die from something else like pneumonia and other things when a person has HIV/Aids and diabetics may die due to kidney failure, stroke or heart failure. The point I am trying to make is, after some the summer events that happened with some hockey players where some of their deaths may have been related to depression and depression is one of the side effects caused by concussions/CTE.

 

[roshinaya]

I think fines should be more substantial than a measly $2500 as mandated in the CBA. Make them pay for their stupidity and make them feel it, money goes to some player relief fund anyways. Also the team needs to get burnt in some way if their player injures someone, then there might be a more active role from the team's side of enforcing that their players keep away from doing dangerous hits. And first time offenses should be more stiff than they are, 1-3 games aren't enough, make it 10 games from the get go, and increase it from there for repeat offenders. The missed salary is sure to sting a bit and they could even be suspended for as long as the injured player will be out of commission. But I know this won't happen.

 

[Variable]

I still don't know how you can do it by injury. Seabrook took that extremely dangerous hit and won't miss any time, other than that precautionary sitting, but another player might miss a month or more if he had a concussion from that same kind of hit and the symptoms keep re-occurring. Why decide the severity of the discipline on something like that which could range from one end of the spectrum to the other in terms of time lost? That's why I will never understand why Shanahan seems so adamant about that being a factor. Whenever he says "we've taken into account the player was not injured blah blah blah...." it partially excuses the dirty hit and protects the offending player more than it does the player(s) he 's supposed to be protecting.



I agree with Al, the concussion doesn't kill you, but the effects of them can be devastating and lead to abysmal quality of life later on. To me, I don't see it differently just because someone gets paid X amount of money. What good is all that money if all it will essentially will do for you at that point is prolong your now decrepit life? Wholesale changes are in order if they want to seriously approach it. Not just put a band aid over it and take away a rule and think things will get better on their own.

 

[R K]

No.. they die from something else like pneumonia and other things when a person has HIV/Aids and diabetics may die due to kidney failure, stroke or heart failure. The point I am trying to make is, after some the summer events that happened with some hockey players where some of their deaths may have been related to depression and depression is one of the side effects caused by concussions/CTE.

I guess I agree some but this has obviously been an issue since the inception of the game and I don't ever remember events like this past summer with NHL players happening. So to suggest they are correllated to the concussion is a guess at best. Where as with Diabetics and HIV/AID you know exactly the root or cause of the initial cause. No question, no assumption, definite correllation.



Especially since one of those was drug related "Boogard" and the other "Rypien" was a troubled individual out side of hockey. Well documented. So the theory of "depression" is not really supported well. Unlike the other two examples you use there which are pretty much cause and effect, factual.

 

[Maiden]

What caused Dave Duerson to shoot himself?

 

[R K]

What caused Dave Duerson to shoot himself?

That's a good question. In fact not only shoot himself, but shoot himself intentionally in a way where science could study his brain. I'm also not trying to make light of the "concussion" just pointing out the fact these people "chose" this playing of a game as a career and for the most part are very well compensated.



Did Proberts coronary have something in correllation with all the obvious concussions he had? Will medicine ever get to the point where they can definitively answer those questions?

 

[dlrob315]

I'm also not trying to make light of the "concussion" just pointing out the fact these people "chose" this playing of a game as a career and for the most part are very well compensated.

That is very true RK, but for players of yesteryear may not of known the ramifications and thought they just had their bell rung. Today players can weigh their choices and make a decision whether or not it worth the risk and I believe from most yesteryear would have taken the risk if they had known the ramifications and most today are still taking the risk. At least now they will have some idea of what's going on.

 

[R K]

Very true. The times are far different than say 30 years ago. As far as Knowledge and Compensation. Although I'd bet had they known this back then, IE Hull-Mikita days, they'd be out there doing what they loved to do either way. Risk to them would be worth the reward of personal gradification.



Good discussion none the less.

 

[Maiden]

That's a good question. In fact not only shoot himself, but shoot himself intentionally in a way where science could study his brain. I'm also not trying to make light of the "concussion" just pointing out the fact these people "chose" this playing of a game as a career and for the most part are very well compensated.



Did Proberts coronary have something in correllation with all the obvious concussions he had? Will medicine ever get to the point where they can definitively answer those questions?

History dictates they usually find a cause and effect; then a cure for most illnesses. I would venture an answer of Yes.

 

[Variable]

The question of why Dave Duerson did what he did has an answer. He knew or at the very least suspected he had some kind of brain trauma, in specific CTE. And he knew or at least suspected it was from football and others suffered from the same thing as he did. That's why In his suicide note he said to make sure to get his brain studied, the reason why he killed himself the way he did. And he was right. That's what he had. CTE is linked to depression, suicide, degenerative brain disease, etc. He had trouble putting sentences together and couldn't remember people's names and obviously he didn't want to live like that anymore with something that was probably just going to get worse as he aged.



If anyone can look past the dumb **** sports fans that wanted to burn it, read the recent biography of Walter Payton, you could see similar changes in his health that would point to the same kind of problems.

That is very true RK, but for players of yesteryear may not of known the ramifications and thought they just had their bell rung. Today players can weigh their choices and make a decision whether or not it worth the risk and I believe from most yesteryear would have taken the risk if they had known the ramifications and most today are still taking the risk. At least now they will have some idea of what's going on.

I hate that a lot of fans still judge the players poorly because of that though, like in the Crosby thread. Or that they get upset when maybe it's brought up a player should take a game off after a particular brutal hit or head hit. There's nothing wrong with that at all. There's nothing wrong with being careful, too much is still made of the image of playing through that stuff, That idea is glorified while the opposite of it is criticized. Maybe that attitude should change. That's what got you in the position you are today, asking all these questions and why it's all starting to come out now.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

In regards to the Kruger hit-



All I know is that RK and myself disputed with some moron of a Pens fan on Twitter, about the length of suspension, and how all the experts were wrong on how Engo didn't leave his feet. When did the obvious turn into a homer biasm?