Diet

1COBearsfan

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After having my oatmeal thread partially derailed I thought it would be a good idea to make a dedicated diet thread. There are two schools of thought about diets, at least in the oatmeal thread.

One is that calories is the only thing that matter, paying no attention to the quality of food that you eat. I do not agree with this. I understand that in the short term it is possible to lose weight like this but I don't think it is actually healthy or sustainable

The other is the opposite. Calories do not matter, it's what you eat that matters. Obviously this will not work if you stick to the food pyramid model, there are far too many grain/carb calories involved. If one sticks to a protein, fat, fibrous veggie, low carb diet you won't have to count calories. As much at the very least.

The argument gets a little muddy when we start to talk about varying fitness goals. If your primary goal is to gain muscle mass, not necessarily worrying about gaining body fat, a high protein, fat, complex carb diet is for you (basically eat everything you can get your hands on). You'll also need to be an animal in the gym to attain this, obviously. And your routine should be centered around heavy complex movements in a slightly lower rep range. Gaining, or keeping, muscle while losing body fat is a bit trickier but still revolves around high protein and fat. You'll need to cut the carbs a bit but not completely and add ample amounts of fresh fruits and veggies. Every body is a bit different so experiment a little. Your routine should still be centered around the compound movements but raise the rep range and lower the recovery time between sets. As far as specialty training for an individual sport, consult someone with the requisite experience and/or the interwebs

Another area of concern is "cheat meals". If you're making pretty drastic changes to your diet you will have cravings for your old diet. This is absolutely normal and you should not try to suppress it. Start with cheat meals twice a week and try to eliminate one of those after a while. You need to have some willpower though, don't let them become a constant derail or you'll never make any progress

Now. This is my opinion, gathered from 20 years experience working out and experimenting with various routines and diet strategies. Also a fair amount of research on diet. Obviously I haven't been able to read everything, but this is what has worked for me. Everyone is different but there are some rules that are more broadly applied than others. Or in other word, ymmv.

So let's hear some more thoughts on the matter. And good luck to anyone who is going through a fitness goal. I know this shit can be hard but keep it up.
 
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HeHateMe

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totally agree with what you've laid out here.
 

Scoot26

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Two cheat days a week? I always ever only heard you should do one... and start that way right away.
 

ThatGuyRyan

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I am a dirty bulker and proud of it..

I'm actually trying to get away from that, while i'm pretty strong I have a power gut I'd like to get rid of.
 

1COBearsfan

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Two cheat days a week? I always ever only heard you should do one... and start that way right away.

It depends on the situation. Someone who has been working out and eating only moderately healthy for a while can get away with one a week. Someone who has been a lazy slob their entire life and is just starting to get their health in order will probably need a little more leniency
 

winos5

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And I was playing devil's advocate. You said people don't lose weight from calorie reduction, they have to eat the right foods/whole foods or even that super food nonsense. I just provided examples of how that's not the case. Furthermore, this is not my opinion. This is medical/nutritional science. Study after study. Weight loss results from calorie reduction. Pure and simple. Also the guys that went on the Twinkie diet or Mc'donalds diet saw similar health benefits to Adkins or Weight watchers or what ever diet you want to put out there, despite eating the epitome of unhealthy food. And no I'm not recommending those diets. But the basic fact remains true. Calorie reduction results in weight loss, regardless of what specific diet you choose. If you can due Atkins or other carb avoidance diets and stay on it and loose weight, more power too you. I can't. I can stay on an exhange based diet that allows me to make choices from all food groups, even the junk. Either way it's the calorie reduction that causes the weight loss.
 

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Re the whole a kcal is a kcal thing...I agree with you. If you're talking strictly weight loss I think this holds true generally. Some people are nazis about this (see Lyle McDonald). But it isn't necessarily healthy and isn't that ultimately the point (outside of the people focused purely on aesthetics)?
 

ThatGuyRyan

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And I was playing devil's advocate. You said people don't lose weight from calorie reduction, they have to eat the right foods/whole foods or even that super food nonsense. I just provided examples of how that's not the case. Furthermore, this is not my opinion. This is medical/nutritional science. Study after study. Weight loss results from calorie reduction. Pure and simple. Also the guys that went on the Twinkie diet or Mc'donalds diet saw similar health benefits to Adkins or Weight watchers or what ever diet you want to put out there, despite eating the epitome of unhealthy food. And no I'm not recommending those diets. But the basic fact remains true. Calorie reduction results in weight loss, regardless of what specific diet you choose. If you can due Atkins or other carb avoidance diets and stay on it and loose weight, more power too you. I can't. I can stay on an exhange based diet that allows me to make choices from all food groups, even the junk. Either way it's the calorie reduction that causes the weight loss.

You're right here. Ocho Cincho was notorious for eating horrible. He would eat McDonald's 4-5 times per day and was around %5 body fat.
 

BlackHawkPaul

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I filmed a nutrition course for a buddy of mine in GA a few years back. I used his series of lectures to reduce calories and cuts carbs and the weight flew off. Stopped eating white bread. Stopped with sugary drinks and counted calories. Went from 227 on July 1, 2012 to 185 on November 30.
I also exercised (running, walking daily) 25-30 minutes daily. Nothing hard core.
It got cold and I forgot how awesome cake is. I gained back 10-12 pounds. Now I'm heading back to the serious side of the dieting.

I knew I ate like a stupid asshole. Beer is tasty. 50+ kidney stones later and watching my wife cry in the ER because the doc said "If you don't change, plan on dying." Truth hurts.

I agree with the cheat meals and being on a strict diet. I was doing 1500 calories a day with Sunday being a 2000-2500 day.
3500 calories=1 pound, so cutting that out without moving my ass from the couch was basically 1 pound/week. I chose to be active so it dropped at a faster rate (1.5-2lbs/week).

The problem with many people is that they don't want incremental loss. They want to do p90x and 2 days later want to see 20 lbs gone and shredded. I'm a blobby, Louis CK looking mother ******. Nature isn't changing that. I just need to get the weight to 175-180.
 
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ThatGuyRyan

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I filmed a nutrition course for a buddy of mine in GA a few years back. I used his series of lectures to reduce calories and cuts carbs and the weight flew off. Stopped eating white bread. Stopped with sugary drinks and counted calories. Went from 227 on July 1, 2012 to 185 on November 30.
I also exercised (running, walking daily) 25-30 minutes daily. Nothing hard core.
It got cold and I forgot how awesome cake is. I gained back 10-12 pounds. Now I'm heading back to the serious side of the dieting..

Care to share that nutrition stuff?
 

HeHateMe

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Here's the deal that made me so interested in this shit. I'm not fat. I've never really been fat, except a beer gut I could always work off in a week doing a little extra cardio. I was fascinated when I read about Eskimos that don't have any Cancer or Heart Disease, yet their diet is very high in fat and protein with very little carbs. WTF is that all about? Then there's the whole brain disease aspect that Grain Brain addresses. It goes against everything we've been taught in school, but it's reality. Maybe the science is few and far between, or new, but what is old is fucking shit. Also, wheat as we know it is poison for all we know. The science that developed modern wheat is more fucktarded than the science that says it's all good.

All i know is that I feel good, my doctor says I'm good (but he's still all wtf?) and it's not that big of a deal eating food I prepare made from raw materials.
 

FirstTimer

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Unless you have specific body comp goals all that really matters is calories and exercise.

All these cleanses, clean eating, paleo, etc bullshit is fad dieting with zero science or logic behind it.

Just eat less calories. Exercise. If you have specific body composition goals then start worrying about macros etc. Don't over think it and complicate it.
 

Ares

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Diets wouldn't be needed if people weren't fat.

People wouldn't be fat if fried foods and butter weren't so damned delicious
 

Ares

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And bacon! Don't forget Bacon!

Yes bacon too....

There was an omelet on Man vs Food for a challenge which had Chili, Salsa, Sour Cream, and Cheese and my first thought was "Me want" and my second thought was "I would ask them to add bacon".
 

1COBearsfan

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Unless you have specific body comp goals all that really matters is calories and exercise.

All these cleanses, clean eating, paleo, etc bullshit is fad dieting with zero science or logic behind it.

Just eat less calories. Exercise. If you have specific body composition goals then start worrying about macros etc. Don't over think it and complicate it.

I do agree that the "cleanse" diets are bullshit but a 12 second google search returns plenty of results that at least question the calorie in/out premise. If there were "zero science and logic" behind the quality eating diets there wouldn't be any questions about it
 

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