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Thanks. That BA in "Witty Retorts" from Univ of Phoenix is finally paying off.
Do employers take online colleges seriously?
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Thanks. That BA in "Witty Retorts" from Univ of Phoenix is finally paying off.
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At least you didn't go to a handful of Universities that have been pumping out straight trash in the last decade or so. I kid you not, I don't know who here has or anything, but the recent graduates from DeVry have been outperforming quite a few other brick and mortar, established universities in many business fields. Businesses coordinate with online colleges and their online programs to expedite training programs. Even though Waldo makes errors galore in his typing, he didn't make a bad choice with Phoenix just because of the amount of investment behind those very programs. Now if you went to Keller on top of DeVry, that has become a serious joke(despite my own advocacy of treating the individual).
Of course, you can choose a shit program from a good school, or a good program from a shit school. Unless the person who filters applications can distinguish good programs from bad, you're screwed.
Trends also shift and change. Some online colleges have been providing better products to employers than their brick and mortar counterpart. Once more people are familiar with the products of online education, the more the outdated part of the hiring process will adapt themselves in order to survive. Just like the reputation of well established traditional colleges have taken a hit as well. I know quite a few businesses that wont favor someone from fresh out of Vanderbilt and Ohio State because they enter the marketplace with somewhat obsolete skills. A number of southern Florida schools because for whatever reason the graduate without the ability to read(that's a bad joke, but this is seriously what I witness employers saying when they openly demonstrate their hiring prejudices). Mizzou and NIU, because they pump out arrogant sham artists more often than not. Last but not least off the top of my head, Kaplan University(online) because their products come without enough usable skill to justify hiring them at an entry level grad pay rate over a bright uneducated person for much less. These are not my views, just my observations. I still would hire based on the individual, not a stereotype.
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Keller I always viewed as a joke, but I viewed getting a masters degree right after a bachelors degree as a joke anyways unless you had clearly directed aspirations as to what you wanted to do with your career.
When I started going to DeVry, I thought it was a fairly good program with a fairly well designed curriculum. They had 15 week classes that were anywhere from 5-20 people. The general education courses of course usually had close to 20 people per class. They had an option for students to do 8 week classes. When the economy collapsed and more and more people started to enroll in DeVry, they changed everything to 8 week courses. I felt once they did that I really didn't learn much of anything in classes and professors rarely had time to cover or get in depth with much topics. The 15 week courses could meet for 2 hours 2 days a week (or more, really depended on the class), while 8 week courses changed to 3 hours for 1 day a week. It became just a get in, get out school. So in a way, it kind of became a joke. So the latter half of my education I feel I learned less and less in classes, while when I started I felt I was getting quite a bit out of each class.
I still think it depends on the individual of course and what they're seeking. All my friends who were in CIS came out of DeVry extremely well paid and all of them have really good jobs. Even a few of the idiots who were a part of the CIS program have good jobs...(one lucked into a merger with Motorola and then the merger with Google).
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I'm with you Scoot, 100% on what we just discussed.
Iwritecode
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OK, I thought you were talking about anyone that had some sort of online school on their resume. Although I had a full-time job and a 1-year-old when I was in college so if online classes had been available then, I might have used them.
I agree with the UoP comment though. I came thisclose to taking classes with them. I had the paperwork filled out and just had to fax it in. Then I thought about it for a day or so and decided that I just couldn't afford it at the time. I spent 45 minutes on the phone with a dude from there trying to convince me otherwise. I don't know if he worked on a commission or what but he was really pressuring me. All because I sent an email requesting more info about their program.
There are a ton of credible schools offering online courses though. I took one through Corsera. I didn't get any college credit for it but at least I got the experience.
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First. No. A lot of CEU's are online. I get that stuff and a lot of it is very specific(for our CAD department here a lot of Inventor, Tangent, Autodesk training is done that way. A lot of really good schools do CEU's right now in a variety of areas. I know places like PSU etc have started doing them recently as well.
Second, Univ of Phoenix is stupid expensive. Like I said, a lot of time with what you pay for the online bullshit you can get at a CC for cheaper, get your two year degree than get your 4 year degree and beyond for cheap wit tuition reimbursement
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IMO The sad thing with college is that more and more it is becoming a goofy conveyor belt education.... I got value out of many classes at UIUC but truthfully only half my Computer Science courses were well taught and informative. Lol I almost felt like they taught CS as though you had been programming for 2-4 years and just needed to refresh alot of the concepts rather than you were learning them for the first time. So like Data Structures was a good class, but I got alot less out of it because they assumed you knew C++ Programming, even though it was like only the 2nd programming class in the curriculum.
I learned a lot, there is no doubt about that. The program was challenging and had some brilliant professors. However, CS at UIUC felt like a program you could not be prepared for without having learned the first 2 years when you were a Junior in High School, and then doing it over again in college you would refresh it and learn more complex topics on top of that.
Where I got quite a lot of value were my non-CS courses TBH..... Military History taught by a guy who knew real Generals around the world and gave great insight and perspective on all the topics.... History of the Holocaust was interesting and the discussions were well done.... The Global Climate Change course was interesting from a science perspective, but also gave me an understanding of the perspective of people who truly loath the people they label "Liberal" lol.... I took a Weather course over a Summer semester that felt like it was at a High School level but the info was good.... I think people often go to college and try to take the courses they have to take and look for the easiest possible courses for every other requirement outside their major so they can go out and party as much as possible, but I found a ton of value in my non-CS courses and yeah the courses were harder than other stuff I could have taken, but they made me a better rounded individual in the end.
I learned a lot, there is no doubt about that. The program was challenging and had some brilliant professors. However, CS at UIUC felt like a program you could not be prepared for without having learned the first 2 years when you were a Junior in High School, and then doing it over again in college you would refresh it and learn more complex topics on top of that.
Where I got quite a lot of value were my non-CS courses TBH..... Military History taught by a guy who knew real Generals around the world and gave great insight and perspective on all the topics.... History of the Holocaust was interesting and the discussions were well done.... The Global Climate Change course was interesting from a science perspective, but also gave me an understanding of the perspective of people who truly loath the people they label "Liberal" lol.... I took a Weather course over a Summer semester that felt like it was at a High School level but the info was good.... I think people often go to college and try to take the courses they have to take and look for the easiest possible courses for every other requirement outside their major so they can go out and party as much as possible, but I found a ton of value in my non-CS courses and yeah the courses were harder than other stuff I could have taken, but they made me a better rounded individual in the end.
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Exactly why in person on campus education is still the best way to go and to be taken the most seriously. I think we can all post horror stories of classes that were a joke or too easy or whatever but you can't substitute the human experience of college in a lot of ways. Both scholastically and socially especially in non-CS majors/concentrations.
Diploma mills suck anyplace but I think there is something to be said for having to physically show up every day and grind through at times and "jump through the hoops" because guess what the working world is 99% of the time?
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Iwritecode
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I had this exact same problem. I had always assumed that it was because I was taking the classes at night and most of them were half-full of guys that were just there because their jobs were paying them to be there.
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Ah yes.... the grind.... I hate people who never had to be up till midnight or 1am on a Sunday night working on something.... lol CS Theory courses.... proofs.... Induction.... sets..... those were some of the longest grinding sessions.... but now when I gotta stay an hour or 2 late to finish some project, it sucks, but I know how much worse it could suck lol. The people who go to college and treat it like High School "I get all my homework done in class" drive me nuts.... if its that easy then its not fucking worth it.
Iwritecode
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I think we are on the same page here.
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Nope, its cause the way the stuff is taught is flawed... but each piece, each class is a little flawed but that professor just assumed "Eh I will teach my shit, and they will learn what they learn" but the problem is learning in some courses require a foundation that people may not have and often don't have any clue they need. I had to learn so many programming languages on the fly just to complete an assignment.... there was value in that, but something tells me I could have learned more, got more value if I had that foundation when the class started.
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You likely get one of those classes a semester regardless of your major but you can extrapolate time management out of it. At least they get it done in class knowing they can rather than blowing it off until later or just not doing it. I always loved sitting in the basement of the Comms building at 2am editing together highlight packages on shitty MACs. FML
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Makes sense. I'm basically that 4 year guy with most things, but there's a few things where I do want to know how everything works and whatnot. I'm generally not as good at what I do compared to a lot of people in my school, but I sure as heck am not as socially awkward. I keep hoping that will count for something if I can finally get some company to interview me. Probably won't as much as I would like, but it depends on the company I guess.
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You may be surprised... we are interviewing for 2 roles and me, my teammate, and my manager all place a good amount of weight on the candidates being easy to talk to and personable. There are far too many weird IT people as it is lol.
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I agree with all this. A lot of the non CS classes I've taken have been more "beneficial" than most of the CS classes I've taken. Not to say that I learn nothing in CS classes, but rather the structure of those classes was not as good. Like you said, they assumed you knew a lot more than you did and a lot of times you have to learn things on the fly. It's not necessarily a bad thing to learn a language like that, but it's not the best way imo.
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Ah, so there is hope for me then xD
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Real talk. My wife has been working in IT for about 18 months after coming over from a Project Management position at another company and she's already in line for management role at this new company because she's like the only person in the IT department with people skills.
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Most definitely man... what year are you in at Illinois? You a CS major?