Do Schierholtz/Valbuena cut it as placeholders?

[SilenceS]

So, basically we are going to throw away next season as well and wait for our prospects to develop? Haven't we already done that the last two years? Look, I'm not one who describes myself as a "needy frontrunning Cubs fan", but 95 losses isn't good enough for any fan base let alone Cub fans. It's time we speed up this rebuilding process a little bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Soler still at High A?

He will start in AA and is already on the 40 man roster. Baez and Bryant are almost assured a call up next year and Soler has a shot. The Cubs aren't going to block them.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

He will start in AA and is already on the 40 man roster. Baez and Bryant are almost assured a call up next year and Soler has a shot. The Cubs aren't going to block them.

But just how soon are they going to be ready? 2015? Late next year? It seems highly unlikely they'll open 2014 with the big club. And if it was me, I wouldn't be wasting my time starting Schierholtz and Valbuena while banking on these guys.

 

[waldo7239117]

Later 2014-2015. Yeah them as placeholders are fine. Why spend when you have players in the wing.

 

[CSF77]

It is not a big deal ATM. Going into 2014 Baez would be at AAA Bryant and Soler at AA. At best all are on the team at the deadline. There is no need to make adjustments and add hard to move F/A's just to block natural progression.

 

[Boobaby1]

Well, for one - It isn't $19 million, it's more like $13-14 million since we were able to move him. While it is debatable that maybe we moved Soriano too soon, is was always a matter of "when" and not "if". The guy is 37 and wasn't going to be around by the time we are ready to contend.

Personally, I think the Cubs did the right thing by moving him while they could.

The Cubs paid roughly 17.5 million of his 24 million owed. The Cubs are worse in left field now. They are suppose to be getting better at every position. That is the object of winning, isn't it?

Move him if there is someone coming up soon. Don't just stick a hapless body out in left just to field a team of utility players.

 

[beckdawg]

Oh and one last thing Barney has got to go. He sucks at the plate. He is so bad its not even funny. He looks like a little leaguer playing against major leaguers when he is at the plate.

I think Barney is fine as a bench player but really shouldn't be in the starting line up. I'd personally like to see them move Castro to 2B and bring in someone like Drew, Yunel Escobar or Peralta to fill in short term until Baez is ready for the majors full time. I think playing 2B would protect Castro a bit more defensively and I also think Baez long term is better at SS than 2B. There's not a whole lot at 2B this off season after Cano. Zobrist may be out there but probably will get retained by TB. But, them moving Castro probably wont happen.

 

[waldo7239117]

Yeah Castro isn't going anywhere and he improved defensively by a lot.

 

[beckdawg]

Yeah Castro isn't going anywhere and he improved defensively by a lot.

It's not that he's necessarily bad defensively in terms of range/ability. It's just lapses of judgement and at 2B he would be a bit more protected.

 

[SilenceS]

It's not that he's necessarily bad defensively in terms of range/ability. It's just lapses of judgement and at 2B he would be a bit more protected.

They aren't going to move him. He would have better range than Baez and Baez has lapses. I just feel Baez is destined for third and would be a plus defender there. His bat will play at any position. The cubs have put in a lot of time with castro and he seems to be on the cusp of getting it defensively. His second half play at short has been pretty darn good and has made some outstanding plays. He could move but I don't think it would be for another couple of years if he stops progressing. He has progressed every year at short. He just didnt have many fundamentals when he was called up. His bat also looks to be hitting with a lot more power. He is having balls driven the past month then all season.

 

[waldo7239117]

Yeah Castro isn't going anywhere. Case and point. The only way Castro was going to move was for Baez. But we found out that's not happening and Baez will likely be 3B. They said 2B, but Alcatra (sp) is close.

 

[nwfisch]

What's the relevance if they cut it as placeholders? They aren't stars, and they don't bring things that prospects can't bring at this time. They are easily replaceable and won't be part of any contending Cub team.

 

[beckdawg]

They aren't going to move him. He would have better range than Baez and Baez has lapses. I just feel Baez is destined for third and would be a plus defender there. His bat will play at any position. The cubs have put in a lot of time with castro and he seems to be on the cusp of getting it defensively. His second half play at short has been pretty darn good and has made some outstanding plays. He could move but I don't think it would be for another couple of years if he stops progressing. He has progressed every year at short. He just didnt have many fundamentals when he was called up. His bat also looks to be hitting with a lot more power. He is having balls driven the past month then all season.

Well like I said it's not about ability with Castro. And I also said I doubt they'd do it but that is what I would do. As for Baez at 3B, maybe but then you're sort of limiting a lot of the value of other prospects. Villanueva, Candelario, Olt, and Bryant are all top 20 prospects in the cubs system. Baez has as much value if not more at 2B or SS than he would at 3B. The same can't necessarily be said for the rest. Obviously you can always move prospects for various other pieces but in this case it seems like it would be easier to play Baez up the middle.

 

[SilenceS]

Well like I said it's not about ability with Castro. And I also said I doubt they'd do it but that is what I would do. As for Baez at 3B, maybe but then you're sort of limiting a lot of the value of other prospects. Villanueva, Candelario, Olt, and Bryant are all top 20 prospects in the cubs system. Baez has as much value if not more at 2B or SS than he would at 3B. The same can't necessarily be said for the rest. Obviously you can always move prospects for various other pieces but in this case it seems like it would be easier to play Baez up the middle.

Alcantara is bigger prospect them all of the but Bryant and Baez. Olt is sinking and Villanueva is depth. Baez would be a better defender then them all at third and a bigger bat. Bryant is made for right. Good arm. Good speed once going. Alcantara isn't fall off and they moved him to second for a reason. Baez has all the skills you look for in third. His range would be limited. You are correct that if you hit they will find a place but Baez can play any position and be a premium bat. Villanueva doesn't have the complete skills and olt is fucked up. Not just offense but his defense has regressed

 

[dabynsky]

Alcantara is bigger prospect them all of the but Bryant and Baez. Olt is sinking and Villanueva is depth. Baez would be a better defender then them all at third and a bigger bat. Bryant is made for right. Good arm. Good speed once going. Alcantara isn't fall off and they moved him to second for a reason. Baez has all the skills you look for in third. His range would be limited. You are correct that if you hit they will find a place but Baez can play any position and be a premium bat. Villanueva doesn't have the complete skills and olt is fucked up. Not just offense but his defense has regressed

Well Cubs Den had a report that Baez is supposed to get a look at 2B and 3B. Obviously his bat plays a lot bigger at 2B than 3B, but if Baez hits his ceiling he will hit fine for any position. Alcantara or Castro could also get a look at CF as well since each ought to have the athelticism to play there and their bat should play fine in that position if Baez can handle 2B.

 

[beckdawg]

Alcantara is bigger prospect them all of the but Bryant and Baez. Olt is sinking and Villanueva is depth. Baez would be a better defender then them all at third and a bigger bat. Bryant is made for right. Good arm. Good speed once going. Alcantara isn't fall off and they moved him to second for a reason. Baez has all the skills you look for in third. His range would be limited. You are correct that if you hit they will find a place but Baez can play any position and be a premium bat. Villanueva doesn't have the complete skills and olt is fucked up. Not just offense but his defense has regressed

I'd feel better about the idea if they figure out a way to move Olt for some sort of pitching. You're right in saying Bryant can play OF and Villanueva is fine as a back up type prospect. However, Olt sort of needs to be playing there. And it just seems difficult for them to justify him as a large piece of the Garza trade if they put Baez at 3B because that is essentially saying he has no future here. And at 25, assuming he ever figures out what caused him issues this year he really needs to be in the majors ASAP. On the other hand, Alcantara is still 21 which means they can sit on him in the minors a bit longer to see how things play out. For example, let's say Castro continues to decline. You could play Baez at SS and then bring him up at 2B. If not and Baez goes to 2B blocking him you have time to work him into the right trade. With Olt, I think it will be difficult to use that same approach because at 25 he's sort of worn out his prospect status and being traded this year I think it is going to be hard to get value out of him in a trade unless he just starts to destroy pitchers in the minors right away next year.

 

[SilenceS]

I'd feel better about the idea if they figure out a way to move Olt for some sort of pitching. You're right in saying Bryant can play OF and Villanueva is fine as a back up type prospect. However, Olt sort of needs to be playing there. And it just seems difficult for them to justify him as a large piece of the Garza trade if they put Baez at 3B because that is essentially saying he has no future here. And at 25, assuming he ever figures out what caused him issues this year he really needs to be in the majors ASAP. On the other hand, Alcantara is still 21 which means they can sit on him in the minors a bit longer to see how things play out. For example, let's say Castro continues to decline. You could play Baez at SS and then bring him up at 2B. If not and Baez goes to 2B blocking him you have time to work him into the right trade. With Olt, I think it will be difficult to use that same approach because at 25 he's sort of worn out his prospect status and being traded this year I think it is going to be hard to get value out of him in a trade unless he just starts to destroy pitchers in the minors right away next year.

Olt has major issues. He has always been a walk power guy with plus d. That went away this year. Edwards was the major piece for garza. Olt was damaged goods that they hope they can fix to flip. I don't see stopping progress because you are trying to push a guy that may not even be a top 100 prospect anymore. I have more confidence in Brett Jackson fixing himself over olt. Everything declined this year. Scouts don't even know how to explain it. I have never been a fan of olt even last year. Just my opinion but I hope the cubs don't plan on him.

 

[beckdawg]

Olt has major issues. He has always been a walk power guy with plus d. That went away this year. Edwards was the major piece for garza. Olt was damaged goods that they hope they can fix to flip. I don't see stopping progress because you are trying to push a guy that may not even be a top 100 prospect anymore. I have more confidence in Brett Jackson fixing himself over olt. Everything declined this year. Scouts don't even know how to explain it. I have never been a fan of olt even last year. Just my opinion but I hope the cubs don't plan on him.

I'm not saying Olt was the biggest piece but he was a large piece of it. Surely, the FO has a pretty good idea where they plan to play Baez in the majors. So, if that's the case I don't really see why they would include him as part of the trade. I suppose you could argue he was just a potential reclamation project but it seems odd to do that with having no real way for him to reach the majors. You would basically have to trade him again later and it would seemingly be much easier to get 2 more lessor prospects at say pitcher.

 

[SilenceS]

I'm not saying Olt was the biggest piece but he was a large piece of it. Surely, the FO has a pretty good idea where they plan to play Baez in the majors. So, if that's the case I don't really see why they would include him as part of the trade. I suppose you could argue he was just a potential reclamation project but it seems odd to do that with having no real way for him to reach the majors. You would basically have to trade him again later and it would seemingly be much easier to get 2 more lessor prospects at say pitcher.

Olt was a name. He was blocked in Texas and had a horrible season. Like as bad as it comes, he was untradeable last year and then all of the sudden he wasn't even the centerpiece. I always thought they were trying to fix him as a stop gap until Baez or Bryant were ready but he never got any better. He actually got worse. Then Baez completely blew up. They are saying Villanueva is going to start next year at AAA. I think that says a lot ab olt and what the cubs think

 

[CSF77]

Olt was a name. He was blocked in Texas and had a horrible season. Like as bad as it comes, he was untradeable last year and then all of the sudden he wasn't even the centerpiece. I always thought they were trying to fix him as a stop gap until Baez or Bryant were ready but he never got any better. He actually got worse. Then Baez completely blew up. They are saying Villanueva is going to start next year at AAA. I think that says a lot ab olt and what the cubs think

S/T will dictate a lot of what is going to happen. I expect Olt to be invited to compete but it would be grab at least a RH platoon spot on the team or adios. I could honestly see him on the short end of a platoon in RF next year. Low investment and a chance to fix himself. 3B I would not commit to him at this point.

 

[beckdawg]

Olt was a name. He was blocked in Texas and had a horrible season. Like as bad as it comes, he was untradeable last year and then all of the sudden he wasn't even the centerpiece. I always thought they were trying to fix him as a stop gap until Baez or Bryant were ready but he never got any better. He actually got worse. Then Baez completely blew up. They are saying Villanueva is going to start next year at AAA. I think that says a lot ab olt and what the cubs think

Yeah I mean I get what you're saying. It's just that the more I think about that trade the less sense Olt really makes in it to me. If they did view him as a reclamation project they would have to have a future trade in mind that he would be a major piece in especially after drafting Bryant. Presumably that would be for some young pitcher but there don't appear to be any of them openly available this coming off season.

Maybe it's really as simple as throwing him out there as a stop gap for Baez/Bryant. But given Baez's acceleration I really have no idea how they are going to get value for him if they play Baez at 3B even if he does turn it around. So, like I said I would like the idea if they punt on him and put him together with some other pieces in a trade for something.