Draft class

[Luke]

I'm not saying it cannot work.

...but it's going to be a bitch if it doesn't.

Spending two picks for a position that only costs a 2nd...this is very Pace.

I didn't like the trade up at the time assuming this was for a pure RT, which I assumed was a typical Pace move.
If TJ works out at LT its great, then Pace for once is the smartest guy in the room. I just don't like those odds.

 

[Bearly]

It's a legit concern. The rumor is that many scouts had him as RT only, hence he slid out of the 1st round.

And when someone proves other GMs wrong, that someone is Ryan Pace.

?

Doesn't matter. If he starts and plays RT at a high level, he's well worth what was given. Doesn't make him a special value but the 2nd and 3rd round hit rate of VG starters would still make that an effective choice.

 

[Bearly]

I don't make that trade unless he's truly a 1st round grade that slipped to the second round. Pace obviously thinks he was...

Why? The value of the picks given was almost exactly worth the 2nd round 39th pick received to land Jenkins but your hurdle is that of a 1st round player and that he's a fail unless he plays to a can't miss 1st round LT standard? the 39th pick is easily worth a solid RT.

This round stuff is fan noise. Each consecutive pick is worth less than the one before and GMs don't look at rounds. They do consecutive pick order. If you want to look at rounds, this is still a 2nd round value and Pace actually got back exactly the worth of what was traded this time.

Would you rather have stayed put for Dillon Radunz and Amari Rodgers. I'd rather have Jenkins and Newsome.
You can now tell me how Newsome is injury prone or some other silliness.

2021 NFL Draft | Chicago Bears ranked top draft in league by NFL.com

 

[dabears70]

I guess one positive is it's a cheap draft for us.

Look at the position Pace is putting Jenkins in. He basically has to play LT. Imagine using this year's 2nd & 3rd for a right tackle, if left doesn't work out.

Pace put a lot of pressure on this young man.

 

[dabears70]

It's a legit concern. The rumor is that many scouts had him as RT only, hence he slid out of the 1st round.

And when someone proves other GMs wrong, that someone is Ryan Pace.

?

 

[gallagher]

If he works out at RT, that's not worth what was traded to move up? I'm sorry but I disagree completely. We need RT as much as LT, and there are no guarantees in the draft. Great pass rushers line up over the right side too, ya know.

Getting a guy that his draft board says is an immediate starter is a good thing, and after we picked Jenkins, three more tackles went off the board before our original spot in the second round. If you see a player that can make an immediate improvement to your team, and you need to move up to get him, man up and make the move. We just drafted a new QB, every investment you make in the line after that is absolutely worth it. I'd be more pissed if Pace saw that he could trade up using only draft picks (and at a reasonable price tag, in my eye) but chickened out. That's cowardly bullshit.

EDIT - I want to add in that the buccaneers moved up one spot in the draft last year for RT. Seemed to be a pretty good move for them, Wirfs only have up one sack and they one a Superbowl.

 

[Bearly]

I guess one positive is it's a cheap draft for us.

How? The move up for Fields made this more expensive than no moves, even if we had all our picks and stayed put.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

How? The move up for Fields made this more expensive than no moves, even if we had all our picks and stayed put.

Well we had a lot less picks though. *counts picks after bitching for months about how few picks we had only to realize we still had 7*

 

[Black Rainbow]

Doesn't matter. If he starts and plays RT at a high level, he's well worth what was given. Doesn't make him a special value but the 2nd and 3rd round hit rate of VG starters would still make that an effective choice.

Man, the emotional bargaining some of you guys have to go thru to justify giving up two picks for one player.

Smh

 

[SlickWilly]

It's a legit concern. The rumor is that many scouts had him as RT only, hence he slid out of the 1st round.

And when someone proves other GMs wrong, that someone is Ryan Pace.

?

Many scouts had Trubisky as the best QB of the 2017 class too.

 

[Black Rainbow]

Anyway, when the games start...and the roster seems a bit thin...and we get a few injuries...

I can already hear the excuses. "No one could have known Whitehair or Jenkins would have gotten injured. We'd be so awesome if everyone was healthy. Maybe next year when everyone is 100%"

Lol.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Man, the emotional bargaining some of you guys have to go thru to justify giving up two picks for one player.

Smh

Your thing with 2 picks is fucking weird. If you trade up and get a really good player at any position it really doesn't matter. Whether Jenkins turns out really good will actually be what determines if it was a good move.

 

[Canth]

Anyway, when the games start...and the roster seems a bit thin...and we get a few injuries...

I can already hear the excuses. "No one could have known Whitehair or Jenkins would have gotten injured. We'd be so awesome if everyone was healthy. Maybe next year when everyone is 100%"

Lol.

Depth is always a concern. And especially this year due to the reduced cap, they have had to make cuts that will put more strain on the depth. Even in years without these cap problems, the teams that stay the most healthy are the ones that tend to have better results and push for playoffs. To a certain degree, even the 2018 Bears benefitted from that - they stayed relatively healthy which helped them keep winning as they had little margin for error.

For the Bears, I have more concerns at depth in the secondary than offensive line - and even more so when you look at Jaylon Johnson's injury history. The guy is talented, but I believe concerns about his injuries is what caused him to slide to our second 2nd round pick last year. And Trufant also has injury history issues.

Quite honestly, the Bears have not had any depth at LT in years. The one thing that Leno did bring was that he was able to play basically every snap, every game. I get the argument that his play was average at best. However, some of his value was also that he didn't get hurt because if he did get hurt, they had no one else on the roster.

From a simple view of availability, one thing that really sucks about cutting Fuller and Leno is neither of those guys missed games. And we cannot say the same thing yet about their replacements.

 

[Luke]

Your thing with 2 picks is fucking weird. If you trade up and get a really good player at any position it really doesn't matter. Whether Jenkins turns out really good will actually be what determines if it was a good move.

I think the point is if he ends up being a RT then was it beneficial to trade a 2nd and 3rd for him.

What if Pace stayed put and selected Radunz at 52 ( currently penciled in as Titans starting RT) who had 32 starts at LT for the Bison. He could be a better LT or RT then TJ for all we know.

Then Pace would have also had the option of Rodgers, Collins or Schwartz for WR at 83. The correct selection there strengthens the WR core which may stop Pace from doing something desperate at WR next year like tagging Arob for 20 mil or overpaying for a mediocre FA if/when Arob departs.

These extra drat picks used to trade up have definitely contributed to a thinner roster which in turn causes Pace to go out and overspend on FA's which eventually fucks the cap up.

 

[Canth]

Your thing with 2 picks is fucking weird. If you trade up and get a really good player at any position it really doesn't matter. Whether Jenkins turns out really good will actually be what determines if it was a good move.

There are essentially two issues in play on all the trade-ups.

The first issue is that if you miss, it can feel worse because it represents missing out on more players. In other words, the miss wasn't just the guy you picked, but it also represents the opportunity costs of missing out on the picks you had to use to get the guy that didn't work out - some of which may turn out to be decent NFL players. And that leads to the second issue.

All the trade-ups that Pace has done for years means that he has less draft picks (especially in the 3rd round), so less younger, cheaper depth to develop. He has to go to the free agency well a lot more to fill in holes which also means he rarely ever gets any sort of compensatory picks for the guys he loses in free agency. Also, going to the free agency well like he has had to do a lot means that the Bears have generally not had a lot of cap room to work with under Pace - and that has been masked to a certain degree because Pace has not had to pay a huge qb contract yet.

If Fields works out the way we all hope he does, at some point, he is going to get paid a ridiculously huge amount of money - and Pace is going to have to change how he builds a roster. He will need more draft picks to build cheap depth to balance out the qb cap hit.

 

[vinson555]

Well we had a lot less picks though. *counts picks after bitching for months about how few picks we had only to realize we still had 7*

We had one less draft pick than we would have had say Pace never traded. You could say with all the high graded picks we had this draft, it might of costed us a chance to get a solid pass rusher, back up TE that can block, or another CB/S given the needs this team has.

Better to have these needs no doubt.

Overall, still a better spot cap wise. Fields costs more but Qb will be low cost overall next year if you can get Foles off the books. And you are not paying for a 3rd round pick and instead paying for a 7th instead.

 

[Black Rainbow]

Your thing with 2 picks is fucking weird. If you trade up and get a really good player at any position it really doesn't matter. Whether Jenkins turns out really good will actually be what determines if it was a good move.

It really isn't...

 

[Bearly]

Man, the emotional bargaining some of you guys have to go thru to justify giving up two picks for one player.

Smh

LOL. We're emotional? You're so spent you can't see reality. You were wrong on what this draft would cost and the value of the trade since you insisted he has to play like a 1st round LT. The issue will simply be whether he becomes a solid starting T. Canth has a correct perspective on this and I agree with what pace hs messed up in the past.

None of us know if the move was good or bad at this point but I personally take it over Raduz and a 3rd round WR. Raduz is a lot more likely to bust. Small school, can't move inside and maybe a fail if he can't play LT. He's played strong in the Missouri Valley conference but might get pushed around at RT in the NFL. I much prefer Jenkins.

Like other threads that you've been on rants over, I'll ask you again. What, specifically, would you have done? I think this is the 3rd time and you still haven't answered. WTF?

 

[Bearly]

I think most of the deal with everyone wanting to either switch guys from being a LT in the NFL or saying they are questionable at LT in the NFL is the arm length issue. It just seems like the instant any guy strays too far away from the 'ideal' 34" or longer arms, nope can't play LT.

For exmple, Alex Leatherwood is 6'5", 312 lbs, 33 7/8" arms and 9 1/2" hands. First bullet under strengths for him is:

• Looks the part with well-proportioned frame and long arms.

Now, let's go to Teven Jenkins. NFL.com has him at 6'6", 317 lbs, 33 1/2" arms and 9 1/2" hands. First bullet under weaknesses is:

• Very short arms for tackle position.

So, you're telling me that 3/8" is the difference between long arms and very short arms. That is just asinine.

I was not going to click on every profile, but looking at the OT's taken in the first 3 rounds of this year's draft, only 3 guys had 34" or longer arms: Christian Darrisaw, Dillon Radunz, and Spencer Brown.

I mean, I get it, in a vacuum, longer arms are better than shorter arms - especially at OT. But, there is so much more to being successful than just arm length it is crazy to me how much the media and their various unnamed scouts fixate on it. Or qualify it with - oh, well with shorter arms he is going to have to work on his technique. Like you wouldn't have to work on improving technique with longer arms. It's the NFL. Once you hit a base level of athletism, the better guys are pretty much always going to have better fundamentals and technique. And then the truly great ones add just elite size and athletism to the mix.

Teven Jenkins has the baseline athletism needed to be successful. So, now it's going to be a matter of whether or not Juan Castillo can refine his fundamentals and technique enough to be a consistent starting caliber LT in the NFL.

Check Sewel's arm length and he's considered a can't miss.

 

[Canth]

Check Sewel's arm length and he's considered a can't miss.

And they moved him to RT. Although obviously a part of that was that they already had Taylor Decker.

To your point, NFL.com profile says Sewell is 6'5", 331 lbs, 33 1/4" arms, and 10 3/8" hands. In their summary paragraph, they mention he can have trouble protecting his edges when defenders get into his frame. As near as I can tell, that is one of the bigger concerns when it comes to arm length - defenders being able to get into the OT's frame and push them around. Consequently, that is then when they talk about needing good technique to keep that from happening.

What really irritates me though, from a consistency point of view, is that the NFL.com profile does not mention arm length specifically as a concern for Sewell. Not in the summary paragraph, not in the bullet points for weaknesses. It gets phrased as average body type and some stuff on various techniques.