Draft Thread - June 21st 2018

[RacerX]

As I mentioned, it took Bledsoe and Lowrey years before they were starting PGs on playoff teams. And at this stage of his career, Dunn is miles ahead of both at the same stage of their career, plus Dunn plays near elite defense. I don't know what is so hard to understand about that. Anyone you replace Dunn with at this point would be a lateral move at best.

Trae could pan out, but then the Bulls drop or bench a rare defender. So Trae is now missing minutes because he isn't playing defense. It's Ben Gordon all-over again, except this time he can actually make some difficult passes to an almost non-existent interior presence. Even Trae would do better if the Bulls wound up with a Center that can play inside and out.

There is no part of your post that I fail to understand, I’m not buying into your assertion that he is going to develop at the same trajectory as Lowery or Bledsoe, maybe he will but there is no reasonable basis to buy into that pipe dream. And it’s silly to state that any replacement is a lateral move. This team needs to take a risk on a high-ceiling player, even if he comes with a low floor such as Trae. Btw, I am not advocating that we draft Trae but I would not be opposed either.

FFS, the team sucks ass, no one other than LM should be considered starters of the future. Dunn and Portis are good 2nd-string players IMO, I guess we can just disagree.

 

[Crystallas]

I just think we waste more time going after another PG for this team than continuing to develop someone who is already liked in the locker room and has become one of the best chemistry guys on the team. The odds that he comes back worse than last season are slim. And if he builds on last year, he pretty much jumps in ranks over a number of other respected PGs in the league.

So forget opinions here. Just look at production .

Here are the 16 playoff starting PGs and Kris Dunn.

And where is Dunn? He's pretty much in the mix. Ben Simmons is younger and better. Sure Kyrie isn't on the list, but let's be real here. The Celtics still went to the ECF without Kyrie in the entire playoffs and went 7 games deep missing *another* all-star player. Kris Dunn and those weapons would likely increase Dunn's production values across the board. And IMO, so would his numbers on San Antonio. Patty Mills was supposed to be some hot commodity, but so far he's just a placeholder in the midst of San Antonio transitioning. Dunn on that team, with Pop, how can it not get better?

So I do believe there is no reason to sell Dunn short. All Dunn needs to do is raise his shooting percentage 0.02% and he's on par with Westbrook. 0.02%. And yes, I know, Westbrook has volume, but his stat padding and ball dominating hasn't helped him win anything either. It's just a matter of pointing out how far a player truly needs to improve over the offseason to come back and take a step. And in Dunn's position, he's not very far plus he's on a good contract(YES THAT MATTERS TONS).



Trae could be a poor mans Steph. He could be Jimmer with aggressive passing. I'm not a hater, just not sold on him over other prospects and going in a direction that sets everyone up for success.

 

[RiDLer80]

Its a tough call, Steph proved a small man can be a force in the league, its just this current mug an roll in the NBA seems to work in the playoffs to get open shots, but when we see our bulls moving a **** hair they get called for an offensive foul. Playoff time, it was damn near misdemeanors that were not being called.

We have Laurie, maybe Levine, Dunn, bigs, someone is going to lose playing time anyway and if its a bust at 7, dont think its such a big deal.

Curry isn't small. He's 6'3.

 

[RiDLer80]

There is no part of your post that I fail to understand, I’m not buying into your assertion that he is going to develop at the same trajectory as Lowery or Bledsoe, maybe he will but there is no reasonable basis to buy into that pipe dream. And it’s silly to state that any replacement is a lateral move. This team needs to take a risk on a high-ceiling player, even if he comes with a low floor such as Trae. Btw, I am not advocating that we draft Trae but I would not be opposed either.

FFS, the team sucks ass, no one other than LM should be considered starters of the future. Dunn and Portis are good 2nd-string players IMO, I guess we can just disagree.

You're talking about Dunn as if he can't improve at all. With more minutes per game last year he improved his FG% and 3PT% (even though it's still shitty) and FT%.

 

[RacerX]

You're talking about Dunn as if he can't improve at all. With more minutes per game last year he improved his FG% and 3PT% (even though it's still shitty) and FT%.

No, I neither said that nor inferred it. What I stated is there is no reasonable basis to assume he will take the enormous developmental leap which Lowery and Bledsoe did, that's all. And especially with the recent rumors that he is slacking off this summer rather than busting his ass to develop.

My point with Dunn as it relates to the draft is this: we need to take BPA, regardless of position. If they believe Trae is the BPA then having Dunn on the roster should not preclude them from drafting him.

 

[RoseMVP1]

Grizzlies are shopping the 4th pick with Parsons. If it didn’t take an absurd amount, it would be worth a look. It would **** up 2019 free agency, but he’s only got 2 years left so it isn’t that long of a contract.

 

[Probie2429]

I thought Dunn was playing really well until he face planted. Would be stupid to move on from him at his age and cost. But this is the Bulls.

 

[czman]

He’s over-valued by anyone who thinks he can be the starting PG on a competitive team. His defense and contract value are not in dispute, he would be an optimal backup PG.

Kris Dunn is not a good player, but he is close to one, and by far one of the better players the Bulls have. I am not going to argue opinions; I will do my best to back up what I am stating with actual information.

When Dunn started the Bulls were 17 and 26, they won 40% of the games. When he did not start the Bulls were 10 and 29 or 26%. For a comparison when Levine started the Bulls were 9 and 15 or 38%.

The Bulls simply won more games when he started. With the same group of clowns the Bulls have the Bulls could have won 4 more games on the season if Dunn starts all of the games (and the percentage stays the same).

Dunn shot 46% from 16'-3point arch last season. That was a huge improvement from his first year. He was also only assisted on 17% of his 2-point shots a very low number. In his rookie season he shot 35%.That is an 11% improvement.

I am going to make some unfair comparisons. Klay Thompson for his career is 45% and Curry is 47%. Now obviously Dunn is nowhere near the player either of them are. Thompson is assisted on a two thirds of his shots and Curry is assisted on 31%.

Dunn was 39% from the corner 3 so he has shown some ability to hit shots. With the Timberwolves he shot 28%. Another 11% improvement.

Dunn has shown he can improve his shooting. He has improved his outside shooting about 11% in one year. He does not need to get much better for him to be a very effective NBA shooter. To pretend like there is no evidence that he can get better or that he has peeked is crazy.

82games.com has him as a -4 PER at PG and a -2.5 points per possession (14th on the team). That is not good. Basketball reverence has him listed at value over replacement and Plus/Minus as third best on the Bulls. I am not sure how these sites can have different numbers, but I am just presenting them. Most of these numbers are broken because the equations they use are extremely faulty. I have gone over it before, but it is some of the only data we have.

Look the Bulls are a bad team. Dunn is hardly the easiest player to replace on the team. They need another wing (Possibly two because LaVine is not worth what he will probably get). If the Bulls can get a top tier PG yes they should do it. If they are getting an average starting PG, there is not much value. Dunn is about that now and he has already shown some ability to improve. If Dunn comes back next season as an improved shooter again and gets some better team mates he can definitely get the Bulls in position to get stomped in the first round of the playoffs.

 

[anotheridiot]

Curry isn't small. He's 6'3.

And young is listed at 6'2. I doubt either is truly 6 feet. What is your point?

 

[Axl Rose]

Curry is 6'3 or a strong 6'2 and is the greatest shooter to ever play the game.

Trae didn't even reach 6'2 with shoes and will lucky to be half as dangerous as Curry offensively.

 

[anotheridiot]

Curry is 6'3 or a strong 6'2 and is the greatest shooter to ever play the game.

Trae didn't even reach 6'2 with shoes and will lucky to be half as dangerous as Curry offensively.

My point is, how many knew Curry was going the be the greatest shooter to ever play the game and have all these nut huggers supporting him? Who knew that with him being drafted. #7 and 6 teams passing on him? Blake Griffin, Hasheem Thabeet, James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, Jonny Flynn were all deemed better players.

Sure, no reason to think Trae can follow Curry to two mvp's and the highest paid player in the game, but you are missing the point of Trae being in the same boat Curry was because he might be 6'2. your argument is an inch.

 

[AussieBear]

My point is, how many knew Curry was going the be the greatest shooter to ever play the game and have all these nut huggers supporting him? Who knew that with him being drafted. #7 and 6 teams passing on him? Blake Griffin, Hasheem Thabeet, James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, Jonny Flynn were all deemed better players.

Sure, no reason to think Trae can follow Curry to two mvp's and the highest paid player in the game, but you are missing the point of Trae being in the same boat Curry was because he might be 6'2. your argument is an inch.

id call him the best shooter of this era, cause back in the day, playas would have broke him or at the very least, beat him up on a nightly basis. i wish the nba would at least bring back old school hand checking..

 

[anotheridiot]

id call him the best shooter of this era, cause back in the day, playas would have broke him or at the very least, beat him up on a nightly basis. i wish the nba would at least bring back old school hand checking..

watching the playoff teams get away with mugging and roll, you would think hand checking would be ok. I can hear the coaches, "You set the pick and take that player with you on the switch". These current pickers are taking that player with them by dragging them.

I am not a real fan of Curry, I think he throws up alot of prayers too, I am just stating the obvious, that Young is built like Curry. I appreciate that Young also averaged 8 some assists with his gaudy point numbers. I just think he is closer to Curry than he is to Jimmer but some fans dont want another player to show that Curry is not MJ special.

 

[Crystallas]

Trae is a shorter PG who throws a lot of baseball passes over trees. In college, that works, we know that works and has worked for a long time. In the NBA, you might get one baseball conversion per game if you throw up a lot, but those are high turnover passes for most players, especially anyone shorter than the median height of the players on the floor. That is a real concern, and IMO, fast break awareness =/= court vision. It's just one facet of distribution, and Trae lacks in smart passing skills with the pro game. Heck, any team that scouts him will catch the lanes where he likes to distribute on the give and go.

So really, IMO, at the end of the day he would be *effectively* closer to Jimmer than Steph.

That's not to say he couldn't blossom like an Isaiah Thomas, however, IT also has his shortcomings(no pun intended).

 

[anotheridiot]

Trae is a shorter PG who throws a lot of baseball passes over trees. In college, that works, we know that works and has worked for a long time. In the NBA, you might get one baseball conversion per game if you throw up a lot, but those are high turnover passes for most players, especially anyone shorter than the median height of the players on the floor. That is a real concern, and IMO, fast break awareness =/= court vision. It's just one facet of distribution, and Trae lacks in smart passing skills with the pro game. Heck, any team that scouts him will catch the lanes where he likes to distribute on the give and go.

So really, IMO, at the end of the day he would be *effectively* closer to Jimmer than Steph.

That's not to say he couldn't blossom like an Isaiah Thomas, however, IT also has his shortcomings(no pun intended).

all that downside, its almost guaranteed Garpax will take him

 

[RoseMVP1]

Yesterday it was the Bulls wanted to move up for Porter, now today it's Bamba. Got to love draft time. I hope if the Bulls do end up moving up to 4th that we don't give up shit else if we're taking back Parsons. It would be a typical Bulls move to give up other assets in return for a shit player with a shit contract.

 

[RacerX]

Yesterday it was the Bulls wanted to move up for Porter, now today it's Bamba. Got to love draft time. I hope if the Bulls do end up moving up to 4th that we don't give up shit else if we're taking back Parsons. It would be a typical Bulls move to give up other assets in return for a shit player with a shit contract.

Taking on a shit player with a shit contract in exchange for moving up is precisely the smart play and what a good GM what do under these circumstances. Regardless of whom they draft, this team is at least a couple years away from becoming a legit playoff contender.

We are in the inverse position the Blackhawks have been in for the past several years, being forced to move out quality assets as enticement for problematic contracts.

 

[FirstTimer]

Bulls getting ready to draft some boring ass bum like Carter Jr.

 

[RiDLer80]

Bulls getting ready to draft some boring ass bum like Carter Jr.

This is my prediction. Or Mikal Bridges. Someone "safe."

 

[RoseMVP1]

Taking on a shit player with a shit contract in exchange for moving up is precisely the smart play and what a good GM what do under these circumstances. Regardless of whom they draft, this team is at least a couple years away from becoming a legit playoff contender.

We are in the inverse position the Blackhawks have been in for the past several years, being forced to move out quality assets as enticement for problematic contracts.

I don't care about taking on Parsons. I just meant that if we're giving up the 7th pick as well as taking on Parsons terrible contract to move up to 4th, they shouldn't have to give something else up. It would be stupid to give up the 22nd or Portis/Valentine when they'd be taking on that contract.