Duncan Keith - Norris Trophy Lock?

[Chief Walking Stick]

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[Chief Walking Stick]

Karlsson and Byfuglien have the goals but look at their horrible +/-.</p>


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I know +/- is a much hated stat.... however...</p>


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Scotty Bowman once said +/- is pointless unless you are either worse than a -15 or better than a +15.</p>


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In this case... Karlsson and Byfuglien are less than -15 and Keith is better than a +15.</p>


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57 points while playing actual defense is damn impressive.</p>

 

[MassHavoc]

It may be a pointless stat, but in context of the rest of the folks on the list only 2 are in double digit plus. Duncs has one of the lowest PIMs, and I didn't do the math but it looks like probably the lowest percentage of his points coming on the powerplay. Not that that's a plus or minus, just an observation.</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I would think he is starting to become the lock. Only 9 games left, I would say Pietrangelo threatens but that is only if Keith goes silent in the next two weeks. </p>


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To me he is the best defenseman in the league this year, he has elevated his game more and more and right now he is the prototype for what GM's want to lead their D. </p>


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So not to jinx, but I would think he is a lock. </p>

 

[LordKOTL]

No other D-man in the league has really popped for being a serious norris contender other than Keith--he's had a couple of downs this year but I'd have to say he should at least be nominated--if not winning.</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Also, cool to see that Hedman is finally the player he was drafted to be. </p>


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He should have been developed like every other Dman but I guess it has all worked out now. </p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Also poor Seabrook, Keith isn't a lock and without him.</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

It's Duncs to lose.

Not saying he doesn't deserve it, but most of us know that Norris=offensive defenseman as of late. </p>


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Would a Dman with 6G 33A and a +30 get consideration?</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BHP" data-cid="224292" data-time="1395845831">
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It's Duncs to lose.

Not saying he doesn't deserve it, but most of us know that Norris=offensive defenseman as of late. </p>


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Would a Dman with 6G 33A and a +30 get consideration?</p>
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1631621</p>


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This is very applicable, good thoughts although I disagree with a lot of the defensive play critique. </p>

 

[The Count Dante]

Lock to me. </p>

 

[Forklift]

As a side note, no defensman to win more than one Norris (except Lidstrom, who isn't eligible yet)  hasn't been inducted into the Hall of Fame.</p>

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Forklift" data-cid="224299" data-time="1395846858">
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As a side note, no defensman to win more than one Norris (except Lidstrom, who isn't eligible yet)  hasn't been inducted into the Hall of Fame.</p>
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Do you have a list of players that have won 2+ Norris trophies?</p>


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Would be interesting to match Keith up to those guys.</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="224296" data-time="1395846249">
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1631621</p>


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This is very applicable, good thoughts although I disagree with a lot of the defensive play critique. </p>
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Interesting.

The other thing the NHL and how it's televised is that most people are following the puck. I've always liked sitting in the ends (where my STH are located) to watch plays develop and how the D forces the offense to make split second decisions. You get to see the action a bit better since we've moved from 4x3 screens to 16x9. How are certain offensive minded players adjusting to #2 rather than a middle-tier defenseman?

I would like to see a puck possession breakdown and also see how forwards choose to dump and chase against better D cores rather than skate in and play from the top of the circles. </p>

 

[Forklift]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Grimsäväinen" data-cid="224300" data-time="1395846948">
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Do you have a list of players that have won 2+ Norris trophies?</p>


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Would be interesting to match Keith up to those guys.</p>
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Player Count Bobby Orr 8 Doug Harvey 7 Nicklas Lidstrom 7 Raymond Bourque 5 Chris Chelios 3 Paul Coffey 3 Pierre Pilote 3 Denis Potvin 3 Rod Langway 2 Brian Leetch 2 Larry Robinson 2</p>


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From hockey-reference.</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Grimsäväinen" data-cid="224300" data-time="1395846948">
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Do you have a list of players that have won 2+ Norris trophies?</p>


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Would be interesting to match Keith up to those guys.</p>
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Doug Harvey 7

Pierre Pilote 3

Bobby Orr 8</p>


Denis Potvin 3</p>


Larry Robinson 2</p>


Rod Langway 2</p>


Paul Coffey 3</p>


Ray Borque 5</p>


Chris Chelios 3</p>


Brian Leetch 2</p>


Nicklas Lidstrom 7</p>


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[edit] dup post (Forklift beat me to it)</p>

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Wow... that would be an elite team photo to be in.</p>

 

[Forklift]

so if Keith wins this year (which he should) he jumps ahead of guys like Doug Wilson and Pat Stapleton in the Hawks' pantheon. Although you can make the argument that his role in winning two Stanley Cups already did that.</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Not really knowing getting to see the guys play, Keith seems like a fair comparison to Leetch and Larry Robinson. Then again, Robinson is just short of 1,000 points and Leetch is past. Depending on longevity, I am don't really see Keith ever reaching the 900-1,000 point range. </p>


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Kind of unfair though, as those guys played in an era where goals were a plenty. </p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Forklift" data-cid="224310" data-time="1395849050">
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so if Keith wins this year (which he should) he jumps ahead of guys like Doug Wilson and Pat Stapleton in the Hawks' pantheon. Although you can make the argument that his role in winning two Stanley Cups already did that.</p>
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And it goes without saying that he's already jumped ahead of that goat-fucker Chelios.</p>

 

[Forklift]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="224322" data-time="1395850698">
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Not really knowing getting to see the guys play, Keith seems like a fair comparison to Leetch and Larry Robinson. Then again, Robinson is just short of 1,000 points and Leetch is past. Depending on longevity, I am don't really see Keith ever reaching the 900-1,000 point range. </p>


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Kind of unfair though, as those guys played in an era where goals were a plenty. </p>
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Leetch is the best comparison, to me anyway - Keith is more physical, Leetch made crisper passes. Neither could shoot worth a damn. But both could cover the entire damn rink. And they could look over to their right and see the same guy for a long time - Beukeboom for Leetch, Seabrook for Keith.</p>