Duncan Keith - Norris Trophy Lock?

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225933" data-time="1397664891">
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If you're not sold on Leddy, you need to buy an new television.  He is a top pairing d-man on almost any team in the league.  Saad is top six.  Crawford is a solid goaltender, but there are more solid goalies than top pairing defensemen.  Especially those that are young and cheap.</p>
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I'm sold on Leddy, but keeping him is not as simple as ditching Crawford or ditching Seabrook. Leddy if anything is a younger version of Keith--but it's unlikley he can be put on a 5M per year retirement contract. I would think if anyhting, Leddy make Keith, and not Seabrook superfluous.  Seabrook is the type of guy you want pared with Leddy (or Keith).  You lose him you're gambling whether Clendening, or possibly Johns come in cold without seasoning.  If those guys come in next year in the #6 slot and play Seabs out of a position, then fine, but right now Seabrook is the *only* guys we've got who can play night-in-night out with Keith.  Rosie, Brookbank, Runblad, Hammer, Oduya, and Leddy cannot.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225932" data-time="1397664565">
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Where the hell is this logic coming from? Goalie wins means that the netminder played well enough behind the team to win the game, that is all that matters. When he is 13-5-4 it means that in this current situation he is good enough for this team to win games. </p>


 </p>


Also, your meaningless goalie win stat was good enough for Niemi to win the cup, 2.66 GAA and .910 SV% in the 2010 playoff....is not setting the world on fire in anyway and about what I would expect from Raanta. </p>
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Because it's a team game.  Are you telling me that a goalie that is in net for a 6-5 victory deserves a win?</p>


 </p>


Does a relief pitcher that gives up 5 runs in the top of the 9th, but gets lucky because of a walk-off homer really deserve applause because he "won a game?"  That pitcher didn't win anything.  He sucked, but he got the win because that's the rule.  Kyle Orton was a horrible quarterback, but has a winning record because the Bears defense was awesome.  Goalie wins are similar.</p>


 </p>


The Niemi comment doesn't make any sense.  Niemi wasn't great in the Final, but team was.</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225936" data-time="1397665753">
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Because it's a team game.  Are you telling me that a goalie that is in net for a 6-5 victory deserves a win?</p>


 </p>


Does a relief pitcher that gives up 5 runs in the top of the 9th, but gets lucky because of a walk-off homer really deserve applause because he "won a game?"  That pitcher didn't win anything.  He sucked, but he got the win because that's the rule.  Kyle Orton was a horrible quarterback, but has a winning record because the Bears defense was awesome.  Goalie wins are similar.</p>


 </p>


The Niemi comment doesn't make any sense.  Niemi wasn't great in the Final, but team was.</p>
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Both Craw and Niemi "won" 6-5 games, respectively in the Final.</p>

 

[winos5]

Nick Leddy has the potential to be as good as Duncan Keith but he's got ways to go.   Until he can perform in the playoffs without turning over the puck ever time opposing forwards fore check, I'm not sold on him.   Leddy was the weakest link on D last season's playoffs, and Q benched him for lengthy periods during the playoffs.   </p>


 </p>


1st pairing on what team?   Edmonton?   Calgary?   Buffalo?   Islanders?    </p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225936" data-time="1397665753">
<div>


Because it's a team game.  Are you telling me that a goalie that is in net for a 6-5 victory deserves a win?</p>


 </p>


Does a relief pitcher that gives up 5 runs in the top of the 9th, but gets lucky because of a walk-off homer really deserve applause because he "won a game?"  That pitcher didn't win anything.  He sucked, but he got the win because that's the rule.  Kyle Orton was a horrible quarterback, but has a winning record because the Bears defense was awesome.  Goalie wins are similar.</p>


 </p>


The Niemi comment doesn't make any sense.  Niemi wasn't great in the Final, but team was.</p>
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 </p>


Your last comment sums up my thoughts on the goaltending situation, you keep inching closer to my mentality with statement like that but don't seem to realize it. 6 million is too much, I don't think its the end of the world, but I would have rather let Crow go or sign him for a max 4.5 million. </p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="225939" data-time="1397666712">
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Nick Leddy has the potential to be as good as Duncan Keith but he's got ways to go.   Until he can perform in the playoffs without turning over the puck ever time opposing forwards fore check, I'm not sold on him.   Leddy was the weakest link on D last season's playoffs, and Q benched him for lengthy periods during the playoffs.   </p>


 </p>


1st pairing on what team?   Edmonton?   Calgary?   Buffalo?   Islanders?    </p>
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Leddy has talents that few dmen have, and he's improved tremendously this season.</p>


 </p>


Are we really using Quenneville's lineup decisions as the benchmark?  </p>


 </p>


Liked that Brookbank on wing, did ya?</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225940" data-time="1397666972">
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Your last comment sums up my thoughts on the goaltending situation, you keep inching closer to my mentality with statement like that but don't seem to realize it. 6 million is too much, I don't think its the end of the world, but I would have rather let Crow go or sign him for a max 4.5 million. </p>
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We agree mostly, I believe, but I don't see the goaltending position as cookie-cutter as you do.</p>


 </p>


Crawford is overpaid now, but he won't be by the time the contract is up.</p>


 </p>


Stan is paying for for past and future value.</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225942" data-time="1397667104">
<div>


We agree mostly, I believe, but I don't see the goaltending position as cookie-cutter as you do.</p>


 </p>


Crawford is overpaid now, but he won't be by the time the contract is up.</p>


 </p>


Stan is paying for for past and future value.</p>
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 </p>


I just fear that he may have undervalued how far the development of Leddy and Saad will have come. I don't see how we can keep Leddy for under 4-4.5 million, and Saad will likely be right behind him if not right there with him. </p>


 </p>


Here is to hoping the cap ceiling goes WAY UP!!!!</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225943" data-time="1397667245">
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I just fear that he may have undervalued how far the development of Leddy and Saad will have come. I don't see how we can keep Leddy for under 4-4.5 million, and Saad will likely be right behind him if not right there with him. </p>


 </p>


Here is to hoping the cap ceiling goes WAY UP!!!!</p>
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Which gets back to my original point that Seabrook will be traded.</p>

 

[The Count Dante]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225944" data-time="1397667494">
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Which gets back to my original point that Seabrook will be traded.</p>
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 </p>


Concur</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225942" data-time="1397667104">
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We agree mostly, I believe, but I don't see the goaltending position as cookie-cutter as you do.</p>


 </p>


Crawford is overpaid now, but he won't be by the time the contract is up.</p>


 </p>


Stan is paying for for past and future value.</p>
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Argument ends there.</p>


Craw's numbers are good, as in "good enough." 

You can disagree with the price tag, but signings and extensions are going upward price-wise. 

I can see the Hawks trading Seabrook too, because someone may pay him 7.5-8 million per year if he's an UFA. 

Think that's funny? Ask Brian Campbell's contract.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BHP" data-cid="225948" data-time="1397667720">
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Argument ends there.</p>


Craw's numbers are good, as in "good enough." 

You can disagree with the price tag, but signings and extensions are going upward price-wise. 

I can see the Hawks trading Seabrook too, because someone may pay him 7.5-8 million per year if he's an UFA. 

Think that's funny? Ask Brian Campbell's contract.</p>
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Even if it's "only" $6M, the Blackahawks likely won't be able to afford it.</p>


 </p>


Trade him this summer, you get a TON in return, and cap space.  </p>


 </p>


It sucks to even have to consider it, but it's getting time to take all of this depth the Blackhawks supposedly have out for a spin.</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I can't stand how you are all on board with the Seabrook departure. I just see that as the end of an era if it happens. I would move many others before him in order to keep him. Keith and Seabrook are the true foundations of the past 5 years of success, Kane and Toews are just as responsible, but to have those two already in place when Kane and Toews showed up made the transition to success almost immediate. </p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225953" data-time="1397668805">
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I can't stand how you are all on board with the Seabrook departure. I just see that as the end of an era if it happens. I would move many others before him in order to keep him. Keith and Seabrook are the true foundations of the past 5 years of success, Kane and Toews are just as responsible, but to have those two already in place when Kane and Toews showed up made the transition to success almost immediate. </p>
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No one wants to trade Seabrook or Sharp, but there's only so much math to go around.</p>


 </p>


That's why teams develop players in the minors.</p>


 </p>


That's also why I primarily root for laundry....It makes saying goodbye easier.</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225953" data-time="1397668805">
<div>


I can't stand how you are all on board with the Seabrook departure. I just see that as the end of an era if it happens. I would move many others before him in order to keep him. Keith and Seabrook are the true foundations of the past 5 years of success, Kane and Toews are just as responsible, but to have those two already in place when Kane and Toews showed up made the transition to success almost immediate. </p>
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It's the business of sports.</p>


I'd like a roster of 50 with Buff, Campbell, Ladd, Bolland, Havlat and all of the rest that we hold onto with fondness. 

Eventually, some of these players will be representing other teams, and we have to face that reality. You can't realistically hinder your team with 6 core players sucking up 75% of the cap space. It works in the NBA, but not with the NHL. </p>

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="225921" data-time="1397658376">


Of those starters, how many have a Cup win?


Since the NHL got the Cup for good, there have been 67 goalies to win it in as many years. Hawks have one. I think I would bank on that.</p></blockquote>


How many have had the team Crawford and Niemi had? The more people continue to ignore that single most important aspect of this, the dumber they look. Because it HAS to taken into account. For every goalie.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Not everyone is going to be Cam Ward.

From below average to Conn Smythe in a season. </p>

 

[MassHavoc]

I feel like this thread is missing a few **** OFFs...</p>

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Wanna buy some swampland in FLA ?</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MassHavoc" data-cid="225963" data-time="1397671942">
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I feel like this thread is missing a few **** OFFs...</p>
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I wonder where they went?</p>