Duncan Keith - Norris Trophy Lock?

BlackHawkPaul

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Forklift" data-cid="225740" data-time="1397501783">
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Ho. Lee. Shit. It was exactly 10. I knew they were bad, but I had no idea they were this bad.</p>
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As bad as TCD's mom.</p>
 

supraman

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For me the bottom line is your goalie has to be hot in the playoffs that usually translates into a good goalies being great and great goalies being lights out. You dont win cups unless your goalie shows up. Which is why I mentioned the upcoming blues/hawks series comes down to Miller. If he is hot Blues win if he is anything less Crawford will out play him.</p>
 

Variable

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="225673" data-time="1397488169">
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You're operating under the assumption that we can and will keep everyone.  We won't and we'll see how good the management really is in decisions going forward--hell, they were able to do it after the purge of 2010. 

 </p>


I don't think we could have gotten better or equal for less than Crawford money.  Guys like Niemi and Miller will ask and demand for more.  Anything less and we're going tino a situation where you have Raanta for the backup.....and that's about it.  Even in 2010 Crawford was below Niemi/Huet on the depthchart and had NHL experience.  Going into next year we are incredibly weak below Raanta--I don't think Simpson or Carruth are anywehre near ready.</p>


 </p>


Thus, the slack will be taken up in the skaters, and again, we can't keep everyone.  Maybe Leddy/Oduya has to walk so that Clendening/Dahlbeck can come up.  Maybe Shaw or Saad have to walk. Who knows, but that's the game for ya.</p>


 </p>


But ultimately, we need a goalie who is "good enough", meaning at least a Niemi or a Crawford.  "Good enough" doesn't mean "Jason Labarbera"</p>
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 Who is more replaceable in today's NHL though? A goalie or  players like Saad or Leddy or Seabrook? You can replace a goalie if you have a great team, it's not nearly as easy replacing potential stars like Brandon Saad or Nick Leddy and then expecting the replacements for those guys to just step it up.</p>


 </p>


When you say "better or equal" that completely ignores the team effect that happens with every single goalie in the league. You can't look the same way at a goalie  who plays in Toronto or Buffalo as one who plays in Chicago or San Jose. There's this weird tipping point in this particular discussion that happens with some people  because they are incapable of reconsidering their ideas of a goalie's value to a team. So they have to then downplay the role of the team that plays in front of a goalie. In this case they have to downplay how great a team the Blackhawks have. Two of the best teams put together in recent NHL history, and they have to downplay that in order for them to justify a ridiculous contract to the one position that is more often than not the biggest beneficiary of said amazing teams. It's amusing.</p>


 </p>


Who would it be to hypothetically take over the net if they didn't have Crawford? Looking at it now, I'd say definitely Reimer would be my primary player to go after. Reportedly not very happy in Toronto and wants a trade, will be a RFA this coming offseason, will be considered coming off a "poor" season, shouldn't cost a whole lot. You give that guy an actual team in front of him, he'll be great. Other than him, see what the price tags are on guys like  Elliot, Halak, Hiller, and who knows who else is available via trades.</p>


 </p>


But you can find goalies out there, the parity is higher than it ever was before. For the Hawks, every single year there's someone out there "good enough" for them to make it to the Cup. Does it mean sometimes going with someone that isn't a recognizable name. Yeah sure. They've done that before and were fine. It's not just either good and mega expensive or bad and cheap.</p>
 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225820" data-time="1397549577">
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 Who is more replaceable in today's NHL though? A goalie or  players like Saad or Leddy or Seabrook? You can replace a goalie if you have a great team, it's not nearly as easy replacing potential stars like Brandon Saad or Nick Leddy and then expecting the replacements for those guys to just step it up.</p>


 </p>


When you say "better or equal" that completely ignores the team effect that happens with every single goalie in the league. You can't look the same way at a goalie  who plays in Toronto or Buffalo as one who plays in Chicago or San Jose. There's this weird tipping point in this particular discussion that happens with some people  because they are incapable of reconsidering their ideas of a goalie's value to a team. So they have to then downplay the role of the team that plays in front of a goalie. In this case they have to downplay how great a team the Blackhawks have. Two of the best teams put together in recent NHL history, and they have to downplay that in order for them to justify a ridiculous contract to the one position that is more often than not the biggest beneficiary of said amazing teams. It's amusing.</p>


 </p>


Who would it be to hypothetically take over the net if they didn't have Crawford? Looking at it now, I'd say definitely Reimer would be my primary player to go after. Reportedly not very happy in Toronto and wants a trade, will be a RFA this coming offseason, will be considered coming off a "poor" season, shouldn't cost a whole lot. You give that guy an actual team in front of him, he'll be great. Other than him, see what the price tags are on guys like  Elliot, Halak, Hiller, and who knows who else is available via trades.</p>


 </p>


But you can find goalies out there, the parity is higher than it ever was before. For the Hawks, every single year there's someone out there "good enough" for them to make it to the Cup. Does it mean sometimes going with someone that isn't a recognizable name. Yeah sure. They've done that before and were fine. It's not just either good and mega expensive or bad and cheap.</p>
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I'm not ignoring the team effect at all.  I just don't think the goalie is a "throw-away" position any more than any other position.  To me what counts is innate replacability based on what's out there and what's in the system, compunded with the ease of moving a player.</p>


 </p>


Could Reimer be a guy that could succeed in Chicago?  Sure, but he could also fail.  He's coming off a 1.8M that was signed in 2011, but hasn't done much.  Looking at his stats, he's 49th in GAA with 3.29 and 35th in sv% with .911 this year (based on NHL.com GAA leader and SV% leader). That's CONSIDERABLY lower than Crawford's. Even if he could be had for considerably cheaper than Crawford, could the slack be taken up by the team D?  There is a drop-off between Crawford and Raanta.  There is also chemistry between Crawford and the rest of the team--which also has to be considered.</p>


 </p>


Plus, with Crawford at 6M--how movable is he, really? On one hand, yes, he won a cup and was a very key element in winning the cup.  On the other hand, our Team D was stellar in 2013, so how much of that was them?</p>


 </p>


IMHO Crawford is no more replaceable than Seabs on the team right now--and neither should go.  Going into next year the issue is going to be resigning critical RFA's--and the only one I can think of is Raanta or another backup.  everyone other FA could walk and we can still ice a damned good team.  Next year IMHO is the time to see who stays and who goes--How good is Saad really?  Can Shaw have back-to-back 20 goal seasons?  Can Sharp and Hossa continue their team-leading play or will geriactrics catch up to them? Is Leddy going to make some huge strides defensively?  How worthless with Rosie be in his last contract year--savageable as a #6 platooned or a Zeus?  Will TT be able to take over center duties?  Can Dahlbeck and Clendening stick in the lineup?</p>


 </p>


I think you have to sort all of those out before considering Crawford--or Seabs for that matter.  Both are signed and very proven commodities. We can spitball all we want of the projections of our young players but ultimately if we prematurely move a proven commodity who isn't a liability (Sharp, Hoss, Seabs, Crawford--to name a few) and their replacement fails to live up to expectations we'll go the way of Vancouver or Washington.</p>
 

supraman

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225820" data-time="1397549577">
<div>


 Who is more replaceable in today's NHL though? A goalie or  players like Saad or Leddy or Seabrook? You can replace a goalie if you have a great team, it's not nearly as easy replacing potential stars like Brandon Saad or Nick Leddy and then expecting the replacements for those guys to just step it up.</p>


 </p>


When you say "better or equal" that completely ignores the team effect that happens with every single goalie in the league. You can't look the same way at a goalie  who plays in Toronto or Buffalo as one who plays in Chicago or San Jose. There's this weird tipping point in this particular discussion that happens with some people  because they are incapable of reconsidering their ideas of a goalie's value to a team. So they have to then downplay the role of the team that plays in front of a goalie. In this case they have to downplay how great a team the Blackhawks have. Two of the best teams put together in recent NHL history, and they have to downplay that in order for them to justify a ridiculous contract to the one position that is more often than not the biggest beneficiary of said amazing teams. It's amusing.</p>


 </p>


Who would it be to hypothetically take over the net if they didn't have Crawford? Looking at it now, I'd say definitely Reimer would be my primary player to go after. Reportedly not very happy in Toronto and wants a trade, will be a RFA this coming offseason, will be considered coming off a "poor" season, shouldn't cost a whole lot. You give that guy an actual team in front of him, he'll be great. Other than him, see what the price tags are on guys like  Elliot, Halak, Hiller, and who knows who else is available via trades.</p>


 </p>


But you can find goalies out there, the parity is higher than it ever was before. For the Hawks, every single year there's someone out there "good enough" for them to make it to the Cup. Does it mean sometimes going with someone that isn't a recognizable name. Yeah sure. They've done that before and were fine. It's not just either good and mega expensive or bad and cheap.</p>
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 </p>


Players like Saad and Leddy are easier to replace. Goalies take a long time to develop or you get luck and throw them to the wolves and they succeed (which is very rare). Saad and Leddy can probably both be replaced with guys in Rockford without missing much of a beat.</p>


 </p>


Also consider the skaters' trust in the goalie. Look at when we had Huet and any other combo, the team actually played differently in front of him. And differently meant less offensive push less risk taking and therefore less scoring.</p>
 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Supra" data-cid="225845" data-time="1397582351">
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Players like Saad and Leddy are easier to replace. Goalies take a long time to develop or you get luck and throw them to the wolves and they succeed (which is very rare). Saad and Leddy can probably both be replaced with guys in Rockford without missing much of a beat.</p>


 </p>


Also consider the skaters' trust in the goalie. Look at when we had Huet and any other combo, the team actually played differently in front of him. And differently meant less offensive push less risk taking and therefore less scoring.</p>
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This is nothing new.  This year when Raanta first started playing the team played *really* tight with him.  Crawford came back and they loosened up quite a bit. After the Stadoum series the team D started to even out a bit more and lo and behold, Crawford's GAA hovered around 2 regardless while Raantas hovered around 3 regardless.  That's going to be the real trick if/when we replace the #1 or #2 netminder.</p>
 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Supra" data-cid="225845" data-time="1397582351">
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Players like Saad and Leddy are easier to replace. Goalies take a long time to develop or you get luck and throw them to the wolves and they succeed (which is very rare). Saad and Leddy can probably both be replaced with guys in Rockford without missing much of a beat.</p>


 </p>


Also consider the skaters' trust in the goalie. Look at when we had Huet and any other combo, the team actually played differently in front of him. And differently meant less offensive push less risk taking and therefore less scoring.</p>
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This is patently untrue, especially Leddy.  His skills are something that most NHL teams do not have, and he is a very young guy.  Saad is not easy to replace, either. He could easily play top six, even top three minutes on any team in the league.  And again, a very young guy.</p>
 

Variable

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="225844" data-time="1397582167">
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I'm not ignoring the team effect at all.  I just don't think the goalie is a "throw-away" position any more than any other position.  To me what counts is innate replacability based on what's out there and what's in the system, compunded with the ease of moving a player.</p>


 </p>


Could Reimer be a guy that could succeed in Chicago?  Sure, but he could also fail.  He's coming off a 1.8M that was signed in 2011, but hasn't done much.  Looking at his stats, he's 49th in GAA with 3.29 and 35th in sv% with .911 this year (based on NHL.com GAA leader and SV% leader). That's CONSIDERABLY lower than Crawford's. Even if he could be had for considerably cheaper than Crawford, could the slack be taken up by the team D?  There is a drop-off between Crawford and Raanta.  There is also chemistry between Crawford and the rest of the team--which also has to be considered.</p>


 </p>


Plus, with Crawford at 6M--how movable is he, really? On one hand, yes, he won a cup and was a very key element in winning the cup.  On the other hand, our Team D was stellar in 2013, so how much of that was them?</p>


 </p>


IMHO Crawford is no more replaceable than Seabs on the team right now--and neither should go.  Going into next year the issue is going to be resigning critical RFA's--and the only one I can think of is Raanta or another backup.  everyone other FA could walk and we can still ice a damned good team.  Next year IMHO is the time to see who stays and who goes--How good is Saad really?  Can Shaw have back-to-back 20 goal seasons?  Can Sharp and Hossa continue their team-leading play or will geriactrics catch up to them? Is Leddy going to make some huge strides defensively?  How worthless with Rosie be in his last contract year--savageable as a #6 platooned or a Zeus?  Will TT be able to take over center duties?  Can Dahlbeck and Clendening stick in the lineup?</p>


 </p>


I think you have to sort all of those out before considering Crawford--or Seabs for that matter.  Both are signed and very proven commodities. We can spitball all we want of the projections of our young players but ultimately if we prematurely move a proven commodity who isn't a liability (Sharp, Hoss, Seabs, Crawford--to name a few) and their replacement fails to live up to expectations we'll go the way of Vancouver or Washington.</p>
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 </p>


Yes you are doing it. You did it in the very next paragraph. How can you look at those numbers and not take into account the teams those 2 goalies are on? Toronto is one of if not the worst puck possession teams in the league. They are godawful. They depend more on their goalies to bail them out more than just about every other team besides maybe Buffalo. They're horrible. The only reason they even made the playoffs last season was because of Reimer (and Scrivens, who is another guy who would fit well with the Hawks). The only reason they again even got close to making the playoffs was their goaltending this season. They just didn't do as good a job, but you can't expect that kind of performance from goalies every single game, throughout an entire season. I can't blame them for that, that is one of the worst run organizations in hockey.</p>


 </p>


About moving Crawford, again the possible moves or goalies the Hawks could get I was talking about were all hypothetical, all of it is pretty much moot, none of it is really doable with the money and years they already committed to Crawford. I was just answering the question on what goalies I'd go with in lieu of Crawford. I don't know what they're going to be able to do  if they wanted to trade him.  Maybe they'd have to keep half or a certain percentage of the cap hit in a potential trade, who knows. But that's why I wouldn't have given it to him.  I wouldn't have given a contract like that to any goalie if I was the GM of a team like the Hawks. I mean, I like Crawford. He's all the Hawks need. But not at the cost of a 6 million dollar cap hit and having to lose valuable players because of it.</p>


 </p>


And how good is Saad really? Really? So you're going to do this too? Downplay the team? Saad is one of, if not the most important "secondary" player the Hawks have in moving forward. In just his second season, his first real full NHL season, he's shown vast improvement pretty much across the board and should only continue to improve. He's a great luxury the Hawks have right now with Sharp and Hossa still playing very well. But, as you say, when geriatrics catch up to Sharp and/or Hossa , that's where Saad is going to slide in. The Hawks would be fucking insane to lose that kid, same deal with Leddy. There are no replacements for these guys in their system. Shaw I believe can be replaced, but I don't see any reason why he can't have another 20 goal season next season, as long as he continues to get his PP time. There's nothing about him so far, albeit it's been a short sample, that screams "anomaly" about how he's played. It's pretty simple, he goes to the net, gets garbage goals.</p>
 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Supra" data-cid="225845" data-time="1397582351">
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Players like Saad and Leddy are easier to replace. Goalies take a long time to develop or you get luck and throw them to the wolves and they succeed (which is very rare). <span style="font-size:18px;">Saad and Leddy can probably both be replaced with guys in Rockford without missing much of a beat.</span></p>


 </p>


Also consider the skaters' trust in the goalie. Look at when we had Huet and any other combo, the team actually played differently in front of him. And differently meant less offensive push less risk taking and therefore less scoring.</p>
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 </p>


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supraman

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You are trying to tell me that it is easier to replace a goaltender than a couple of skaters? You're fucking high.</p>
 

Variable

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For this team? Yeah. You're telling me there's another Brandon Saad in Rockford? Name him.</p>
 

supraman

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225853" data-time="1397586334">
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For this team? Yeah. You're telling me there's another Brandon Saad in Rockford? Name him.</p>
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 </p>


Good forwards are a dime dozen, good goaltenders that can win Stanley cups...much rarer. Look at all the great goalies in the league that are notorious playoff choke artists.</p>


 </p>


I like Lundqvist and Nabokov but I wouldnt want either one of them starting for me in the playoffs.</p>
 

Variable

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Man that's like a  minefield of bad hockey thoughts. Don't even know where to begin. That combined with Saads being all over the league might finally topple "Tomas Holmstrom should be a Hall of Famer" as the greatest bad hockey thought of all time.</p>
 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225855" data-time="1397586993">
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Man that's like a  minefield of bad hockey thoughts. Don't even know where to begin. That combined with Saads being all over the league might finally topple "Tomas Holmstrom should be a Hall of Famer" as the greatest bad hockey thought of all time.</p>
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 </p>


Good thing I know your opinion about hockey is worthless</p>
 

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Just for shits and giggles though, really, who is Brandon Saad and Nick Leddy in Rockford? Who can come up right now and replace them without missing much of a beat? Look, forget about all the goalie stuff, there's so many red flags in your thought process on that it's not even worth getting into for me. I just really want to know the answer to who is Leddy and Saad  Ver 2.0 in Rockford and why they aren't up right now.</p>
 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225850" data-time="1397584858">
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Yes you are doing it. You did it in the very next paragraph. How can you look at those numbers and not take into account the teams those 2 goalies are on? Toronto is one of if not the worst puck possession teams in the league. They are godawful. They depend more on their goalies to bail them out more than just about every other team besides maybe Buffalo. They're horrible. The only reason they even made the playoffs last season was because of Reimer (and Scrivens, who is another guy who would fit well with the Hawks). The only reason they again even got close to making the playoffs was their goaltending this season. They just didn't do as good a job, but you can't expect that kind of performance from goalies every single game, throughout an entire season. I can't blame them for that, that is one of the worst run organizations in hockey.</p>


 </p>


About moving Crawford, again the possible moves or goalies the Hawks could get I was talking about were all hypothetical, all of it is pretty much moot, none of it is really doable with the money and years they already committed to Crawford. I was just answering the question on what goalies I'd go with in lieu of Crawford. I don't know what they're going to be able to do  if they wanted to trade him.  Maybe they'd have to keep half or a certain percentage of the cap hit in a potential trade, who knows. But that's why I wouldn't have given it to him.  I wouldn't have given a contract like that to any goalie if I was the GM of a team like the Hawks. I mean, I like Crawford. He's all the Hawks need. But not at the cost of a 6 million dollar cap hit and having to lose valuable players because of it.</p>


 </p>


And how good is Saad really? Really? So you're going to do this too? Downplay the team? Saad is one of, if not the most important "secondary" player the Hawks have in moving forward. In just his second season, his first real full NHL season, he's shown vast improvement pretty much across the board and should only continue to improve. He's a great luxury the Hawks have right now with Sharp and Hossa still playing very well. But, as you say, when geriatrics catch up to Sharp and/or Hossa , that's where Saad is going to slide in. The Hawks would be fucking insane to lose that kid, same deal with Leddy. There are no replacements for these guys in their system. Shaw I believe can be replaced, but I don't see any reason why he can't have another 20 goal season next season, as long as he continues to get his PP time. There's nothing about him so far, albeit it's been a short sample, that screams "anomaly" about how he's played. It's pretty simple, he goes to the net, gets garbage goals.</p>
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Just because Reimer was bad on a shit team doesn't mean Reimer will be good on a great team.  One does not necessarily preclude the other.</p>


 </p>


Reimer may very well be better than he was on the Leafs *if* he was on the 'hawks, but is his numbers going to be more like Crawford or more like Raanta?  That was my point.  Niemi, Emery, and Crawford were both good on Chicago's squads, while Huet, Khabi, and Turco outright sucked.  If the team in front of them was so good that they can make anyone look good, than Huet, Khabi, and Turco wouldn't have been nearly as-bad.  Reimer on the 'hawks is a complete enigma.  You canot say he will be successful here any more than I can say he will fail.</p>


 </p>


As for Saad and Leddy, my issue with them is not how good they are with respect to Rockford prospects, Leddy and Saad in their own right are awesome and I was not insinuating that they aren't, but you can't keep everyone.</p>


 </p>


The way I see it right now the core consists of Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, and Crawford. Their style of play, contract duration, and/or standing amongst the rest of the league determines that.  IMHO *if* one of them goes it's because there is a 2nd tier player who is better, or somewhere else the damage from their departure is mitigated.  If we lost Seabrook right now, there's no one in Rockford who can take his role on the team, There's no one that Keith can play with who's a righty and defensively responsible. So, someone who can be a Seabrook has to be coming back (a cheaper version), or we land another player in another role that covers for the deficiency.</p>


 </p>


That being said, Leddy and Saad are approaching the place where guys like Buff and Ladd were in 2010.  They are good enough to make enough money that the team cannot afford them.  Some could argue Shaw being ion that cusp as well (Hey, how may big bodied guys *don't* go to the net while Shaw does fearlessly and actually cash in on?)  Any way you slice it, the way I see it is that they either have to dethrone a core player, or we lose them.</p>


 </p>


If there is any player Leddy can dethrone based on playing style, it's Keith.  Leddy and Seabrook are about as different as unicorns and drowning in liquid pig shit.  Leddy and Keith play similar games, even though Keith is far beyond Leddy at this point. Keith is also on a cap-friendly retirement contract.  Seabrook's role and position is one that we can't mitigate losing--there are not righty defensive defenseman that are anywhere near Seabrook's level.  That leaves Hammer, which is possible even though Hammer is underpaid at this point.</p>


 </p>


From Saad's side of things, I think he goes or stays based on Hossa and/or Sharp.  Saad is well below Toews and Kane--it's not even worth discussing or thinking about Saad being able to make those two superfluous unless under the influence of hardcore pharmeceuticals, but Sharp and Hossa are getting up in age.  The thing about those two is that they just put up 30 goals seasons for the 'hawks, so one has to wonder what's left in the tank.</p>


 </p>


IMHO Hossa might very well be cut from the same cloth as Selanne and Jagr--able to play in his 40's.  He's shown he can still score, still skate, and is still one of if not the hardest guy to knock off the puck.  He's just 5 points shy of 1000 and most likley HoF material.  My gut tells me that Hossa will be top 6, if not top-9 servicable for the better part of the remainder of his contract. As long as he can score 20-30, not be slower than Cullimore, and still be nigh-impossible to knock off the puck he compliments the team game almost perfectly.</p>


 </p>


Sharp, on the other hand, as much as I like him may be who Saad replaces--assuming his clip of goalscoring degrades.  We'll have to see next year.  If Sharp's performance degrades I think he's easier to replace with a guy like Saad than Hossa is.</p>


 </p>


Sharp I think</p>
 

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21 year old forwards who can play on any line and already have been a major contributor to a Stanley Cup championship are very rare.</p>


 </p>


Even more so 22 year old defensemen who already have two 30 point seasons while skating on the third pair.</p>


 </p>


If Stan Bowman decided to shop either of these guys, the reaction around the league would be similar to Kate Upton asking, "can someone help me get this bikini top off?"</p>
 

puckjim

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Forklift" data-cid="225861" data-time="1397590203">
<div>


21 year old forwards who can play on any line and already have been a major contributor to a Stanley Cup championship are very rare.</p>


 </p>


Even more so 22 year old defensemen who already have two 30 point seasons while skating on the third pair.</p>


 </p>


If Stan Bowman decided to shop either of these guys, the reaction around the league would be similar to Kate Upton asking, "can someone help me get this bikini top off?"</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Which is why I think that losing a Seabrook, while painful, could be easier to swallow when it allows you to keep Leddy/Saad.</p>


 </p>


Johns is a big boy that could possibly move into the top six, although I really don't pay much attention to minor league players.</p>
 

The Count Dante

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225862" data-time="1397591795">
<div>


Which is why I think that losing a Seabrook, while painful, could be easier to swallow when it allows you to keep Leddy/Saad.</p>


 </p>


Johns is a big boy that could possibly move into the top six, although I really don't pay much attention to minor league players.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


I have not followed the thread much so excuse if I am just butting in,</p>


 </p>


But if the decision is keep seabrook to lose saad and leddy? No way, I will help Seabrook packup the boxes, thanks for your time in Chicago...</p>


 </p>


Leddy especially for me. Leddy will be one of the single best O-Dmen of his "class". He could be 1st line minutes if he wasnt stuck behind the best tandem and the best tandem in Sweden.</p>
 

Forklift

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225862" data-time="1397591795">
<div>


Which is why I think that losing a Seabrook, while painful, could be easier to swallow when it allows you to keep Leddy/Saad.</p>


 </p>


Johns is a big boy that could possibly move into the top six, although I really don't pay much attention to minor league players.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Leddy and Saad (and Kruger and Shaw for that matter) don't become a concern until after next season - same time as Kane/Toews, so a decent sized chunk of change will have to be liberated from somewhere.</p>


 </p>


Dahlbeck is closer than Johns, but not by much. Johns is on a Seabrook trajectory, while Dahlbeck looks to be a solid stay-at-home guy, hopefully a lot like Hjalmarsson (not going for the easy comparing-Swedes thing here, just a guy who gets in front of pucks like #4).</p>


 </p>


The closest thing to a replacement for Leddy is Clendening, who is basically a not-as-good version of Sergei Zubov. I'm not excited.</p>
 

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