Fear The Walking Dead

[Houston]

For the love of my eyes, please tell me the Morgan timeline isn't going to always keep that awful, grainy, filter from TWD.

The lack of it, was one of the things that made this series so much more watchable.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Good thing this show isn’t on hbo or the night king would have crossed over eventually

 

[airtime143]

I responded to Spartan before I read this... but yeah everything you said I will 2nd.

The only thing you didn't consider as a reason to blockade and starve them out is if you want to poach the strongest/best to join the Vultures and the only way you see to do that is to starve them out and/or make them give up the settlement and disperse... in either case you may be able to force or coerce the strongest survivors to join you.

It still seems very odd... if the idea is to eventually piece together a mega horde they can direct at a target that would be interesting, but again odd.

If you need a mega horde to use as a weapon against an enemy.... head towards any major/medium sized city.... 99% of the population is now zombie.

But if they gloss over that and the plan is to combine all that into a mega horde, it would be... interesting.... what kind of enemy is such that you need to throw a mega horde at it..... another Saviors group?

Sorry in advance for lack of formatting.. Responding on my phone.

The mega horde.... Maybe just a clear cutting measure? Wiping out all humanity prior to engaging...not so much directed to one group but preventative to all groups?

We have seen hordes controlled and used... Maybe using on on a grand scale is the next exciting route? One that is millions strong and not only utilizing what they have, but drawing in all available stragglers as well?
Maybe not to lay waste at all... Maybe to get them all stampeding and picking up stragglers, keeping them moving, and ridding an entire region of them entirely?


As to the vultures wanting to cull the weak and add strength... They seem vulnerable to takeover if that is the case. Get a settlement with 5 or 6 strong dudes, it would be a breeze for them to "defect" to the vultures, slaughter them in their sleep, and keep their settlement free.
Beyond that, even adding strength settlement by settlement offers a diminishing return.
As they get larger, they become less agile and need to take on larger settlements for any gain.
It seems short sighted and dumb.

You hit the nail on the head in your response to Spartan..how the saviors kept them producing... Specifically pointing to negans insistence that people are the resource.

There has got to be more to them than that. If not, they are dumb and not worthy of a full season.

On a thematic note- I am skewing my assumptions of the direction of the show away from what twd has done... I would be let down if they just rehashed the same stories with a different cast.

Overall, strands house was much like herschels farm, but the hotel was kind of a break from the prison- having to deal with the living at the door, being cast out of a society for being savage... An interesting break on the stronghold story line.
The survivalist camp was very "Alexandria" like in many ways... But to seize control the way they did and absorb the old owners enemy was interesting.
By far the most interesting sanctuary was the dam...it was a shame they spent so little time with that.

I am hoping for fresh ideas, and although a mobile ultra-horde is a long shot, I am hoping it happens at some point. They have been weapons on a small scale, now they need to ramp it up.

 

[Houston]

I would love to see long term relations between multiple groups. The way Game of Thrones kind of does.

The dam, the camp, the Native Americas, and that place with the coin system, for example. The show could've stayed there for multiple seasons. As Airtime just alluded too.

 

[airtime143]

I would love to see long term relations between multiple groups. The way Game of Thrones kind of does.

The dam, the camp, the Native Americas, and that place with the coin system, for example. The show could've stayed there for multiple seasons. As Airtime just alluded too.

That coin system at the trading post...didn't think too much about that when I saw it, but now that you mention it it is very interesting that currency sprang up immediately (like the saviors "point" system).
It would be interesting to see someone stage a financial takover of a place, or explore the rise and crash of a monetary style economy.

I completely missed the trading post in listing the different approaches each show takes, but that was a completely unique and sensible eventuality.
Putting Strand to work and getting his debt bought out was pretty cool- but their "economy" seems tenuous at best... would like to see more about that.


Shit- now I want to see that play out. The saviors "point" economy was enforced by brutality- all members of the economy were bound to it by punishment of being hunted down and enslaved. the point work because all members are compulsory members. each member was required by the situation to be consumers.

How many settlements would it take to have a free representative economy based on a point or coin or dollar function? What would be the penalties for ducking out? how easy would it be to topple?
A "coin" with no intrinsic value can easily be rendered worthless.... but is far more efficient and easy to use than traditional barter systems.

 

[Burque]

I personally am enjoying FTWD more that TWD this last season. I think the writing is much more realistic than we are getting with the shitty Negan Rick never ending confrontation.

I am enjoying the flashbacks in this season as I think it is obviously trying to tie the whole story together with the new group meeting the existing group.

As far as the Vultures I think they are purely about people and not resources as they feel they have and can locate enough resources to survive for now. I do not know what their long term plan is, but apparently they are happy finding a spot and running it dry before moving on to the next spot. The other thing with them that strikes me as interesting is that I do not think they are flagging the undead in an attempt to do something nefarious. I think they in a way use that as a system to warn themselves or others. To me it seems like if you were building a giant army of undead that you were going to lead around you would mark the locations of the locked up ones on a map an not put them out publicly where people could easily determine your system over time.


I certainly find myself wanting to see what happens next with FTWD than with TWD. At least for this season.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Just finished watching the new episode. Wish I didn’t

 

[Ares]

Last night's episode was interesting.... I mean kinda what you would have expected as to how John met "Laura" aka "Naomi"

His trench line around his house makes me wonder why more people aren't doing the same.... dig a wider trench and fill it with spikes... then it would take a pretty massive horde to fill the trench and make it to your house.

I still think John is likely a villain in waiting.... the actor who plays him has been a villain in every single thing I've seen him in.

I would not be surprised if we find out he is a sociopath/serial killer.

 

[airtime143]

Last night's episode was interesting.... I mean kinda what you would have expected as to how John met "Laura" aka "Naomi"

His trench line around his house makes me wonder why more people aren't doing the same.... dig a wider trench and fill it with spikes... then it would take a pretty massive horde to fill the trench and make it to your house.

I still think John is likely a villain in waiting.... the actor who plays him has been a villain in every single thing I've seen him in.

I would not be surprised if we find out he is a sociopath/serial killer.

That would be cool to have such a skilled killer... but I dont see any indication that he is one yet.

Who knows- he locked on to Laura/Naomi really quick- maybe he is a stalker style killer.


Overall I was disappointed in this episode. There was not a ton of insight in to either character- It could have all been done in 10 minutes.
I would have preferred a voice over explanation over shorter scenes, with some current events moving forward.


So what did we learn?
Naomi/Laura doesnt say shit about where she came from or how she ended up where she was. It is an outside possibility she is another "plant" for the Vultures. The mysteriousness of her past coupled with her statement in a past episode that she "cant go through this again" could be construed as her getting cold feet on wiping out settlements.
Her rushing away from John might be because she has to meet up with the Vultures. Her statement last night "I lost my child" may point to her being the mother of the girl the vultures use... a figurative rather than literal loss.


As for John-
He is OCD. Cleaning the guns non-stop, logging the movies he watched and filling out the form at the store, scheduling his movie night, Playing scrabble and obsessing over the word he will play, leaving the store fully stocked and there for his routine rather than clean it out while it is still stocked, building up Laura as the be all end all to be found at all cost.... convinced if he does everything just so he will get the fairy tale ending.
He is haunted by a mistaken kill, and doesnt like shooting people.

The guy is as fucked in the head as Morgan, but his reaction is to cling to people immediately rather than push them away like morgan.
Despite being rejected, he just keeps coming back.

I wish they would have compressed all of those points in to half an episode and spent the other half on Naomi/Laura. Perhaps she is an agent of the vultures, because she seems integral to the plot and they want to keep her in the shadows till the time is right.

 

[Ares]

That would be cool to have such a skilled killer... but I dont see any indication that he is one yet.

Who knows- he locked on to Laura/Naomi really quick- maybe he is a stalker style killer.


Overall I was disappointed in this episode. There was not a ton of insight in to either character- It could have all been done in 10 minutes.
I would have preferred a voice over explanation over shorter scenes, with some current events moving forward.


So what did we learn?
Naomi/Laura doesnt say shit about where she came from or how she ended up where she was. It is an outside possibility she is another "plant" for the Vultures. The mysteriousness of her past coupled with her statement in a past episode that she "cant go through this again" could be construed as her getting cold feet on wiping out settlements.
Her rushing away from John might be because she has to meet up with the Vultures. Her statement last night "I lost my child" may point to her being the mother of the girl the vultures use... a figurative rather than literal loss.


As for John-
He is OCD. Cleaning the guns non-stop, logging the movies he watched and filling out the form at the store, scheduling his movie night, Playing scrabble and obsessing over the word he will play, leaving the store fully stocked and there for his routine rather than clean it out while it is still stocked, building up Laura as the be all end all to be found at all cost.... convinced if he does everything just so he will get the fairy tale ending.
He is haunted by a mistaken kill, and doesnt like shooting people.

The guy is as fucked in the head as Morgan, but his reaction is to cling to people immediately rather than push them away like morgan.
Despite being rejected, he just keeps coming back.

I wish they would have compressed all of those points in to half an episode and spent the other half on Naomi/Laura. Perhaps she is an agent of the vultures, because she seems integral to the plot and they want to keep her in the shadows till the time is right.

So your post got me thinking.... if it turns out John is a crazy OCD stalker/rapist/murderer.... the entire episode could have been his mind's eye of what happened and not the real story.

That would perhaps justify spending that much time on the episode as they did.... a reveal later that in fact he found her and more/less imprisoned her until she escaped would be a pretty big twist.

Knowing TWD writers it is nothing so interesting.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Last night's episode was interesting.... I mean kinda what you would have expected as to how John met "Laura" aka "Naomi"

His trench line around his house makes me wonder why more people aren't doing the same.... dig a wider trench and fill it with spikes... then it would take a pretty massive horde to fill the trench and make it to your house.

I still think John is likely a villain in waiting.... the actor who plays him has been a villain in every single thing I've seen him in.

I would not be surprised if we find out he is a sociopath/serial killer.

Really? Not all what I would have expected as to how John met Laura. I would have though this lost love he was so desperately in search of was one he had spent a lot of time with and just loved everything about her. Then come to find out they spent all of a couple weeks together and she split the day he told her he loved her. All he knew about her was, apparently, she was the first woman he'd seen in quite a while while held up in that shack jerking off to movie night. FFS, he didn't know so much as her real name so he just gives her a name. Who does that? I think they just made another character real lame.

 

[Ares]

Really? Not all what I would have expected as to how John met Laura. I would have though this lost love he was so desperately in search of was one he had spent a lot of time with and just loved everything about her. Then come to find out they spent all of a couple weeks together and she split the day he told her he loved her. All he knew about her was, apparently, she was the first woman he'd seen in quite a while while held up in that shack jerking off to movie night. FFS, he didn't know so much as her real name so he just gives her a name. Who does that? I think they just made another character real lame.

Eh yeah... he is a weird loner searching for her and in spite of him being an open book he had very little to say about Laura.

If they were long lost love.... he would have known more about her, had more to say about her.

It seemed quite evident to me that she was someone he was infatuated with, but didn't know her well and they parted quickly/suddenly.

I am telling you, this actor has played nothing but villains.... he is going to turn out to be a psycho.

And that is more interesting to me.... you know damned well loner serial killer sociopaths would do well in a zombie apocalypse world.

He said he was a Cop and worked at the rodeo.... I think he is a liar....

I am interested to see where his character goes.... I could be wrong and he is just a loner weirdo trying to survive.... but I hope they reveal him to be a villain.

Would be kinda cool if the Vultures have Laura/Naomi and he helps kill them and then this moment which should be happy/relief when she sees him turns to horror as she like "**** U LOCKED ME IN UR CABIN FOR WEEKS"

Then she goes full kermit

 

[airtime143]

So your post got me thinking.... if it turns out John is a crazy OCD stalker/rapist/murderer.... the entire episode could have been his mind's eye of what happened and not the real story.

That would perhaps justify spending that much time on the episode as they did.... a reveal later that in fact he found her and more/less imprisoned her until she escaped would be a pretty big twist.

Knowing TWD writers it is nothing so interesting.

That would be a spectacular twist.

I do have serious concerns about his mental state... he is either a hopeless optimist that is routine oriented...

Or he is ocd and forms immediate "bonds" with everyone...laura/morgan.

Your post got me thinking in turn- if he IS seeing his own reality, he let a little bit slip in the back of the swat van...
He said something to the effect of "I know I will find her. I know it will work out. I also acknowledge that I may not find her as a truth... but it does me no good to think about that"

Not his exact wording, but similar- he will live in his world despite knowing the truth, because his world is better.

 

[Ares]

That would be a spectacular twist.

I do have serious concerns about his mental state... he is either a hopeless optimist that is routine oriented...

Or he is ocd and forms immediate "bonds" with everyone...laura/morgan.

Your post got me thinking in turn- if he IS seeing his own reality, he let a little bit slip in the back of the swat van...
He said something to the effect of "I know I will find her. I know it will work out. I also acknowledge that I may not find her as a truth... but it does me no good to think about that"

Not his exact wording, but similar- he will live in his world despite knowing the truth, because his world is better.

I hate to assume story/character based off the actor.... but the dude has never played a protagonist in anything I've ever seen.

He has always played an antagonist villain.

I like his weirdo character, but I don't think it will last.... he will turn evil at some point.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Eh yeah... he is a weird loner searching for her and in spite of him being an open book he had very little to say about Laura.

If they were long lost love.... he would have known more about her, had more to say about her.

It seemed quite evident to me that she was someone he was infatuated with, but didn't know her well and they parted quickly/suddenly.

I am telling you, this actor has played nothing but villains.... he is going to turn out to be a psycho.

And that is more interesting to me.... you know damned well loner serial killer sociopaths would do well in a zombie apocalypse world.

He said he was a Cop and worked at the rodeo.... I think he is a liar....

I am interested to see where his character goes.... I could be wrong and he is just a loner weirdo trying to survive.... but I hope they reveal him to be a villain.

Would be kinda cool if the Vultures have Laura/Naomi and he helps kill them and then this moment which should be happy/relief when she sees him turns to horror as she like "**** U LOCKED ME IN UR CABIN FOR WEEKS"

Then she goes full kermit

The twist you describe would be the only thing that would make any sense of it, but as I think you already pointed out, TWD writers not likely to go that route.

 

[airtime143]

I watched the last episode again because I admit I kind of tuned out at times... was wanting to know more about the present rather than the Laura/John story.

Found an interesting little easter egg that probably gives us a spoiler on John Dorie.

He does a movie every week, and leaves a review.
The one he takes when he goes to the store with laura is probably going to be his story arc.

He takes "Meet John Doe".
bare bones IMDB description.... As a parting shot, fired reporter Ann Mitchell prints a fake letter from unemployed "John Doe," who threatens suicide in protest of social ills. The paper is forced to rehire Ann and hires John Willoughby to impersonate "Doe." Ann and her bosses cynically milk the story for all it's worth, until the made-up "John Doe" philosophy starts a whole political movement. At last everyone, even Ann, takes her creation seriously...but publisher D.B. Norton has a secret plan.


Al is the reporter (a fired reporter in the movie, a reporter with no audience in the show), John Dorie is John doe.
In the movie, John Doe becomes an unwilling icon.
In FTWD, John tells the story of fatally shooting a guy. Laura asks if that is why he moved where he was. John replies, no. People treated me like a hero.


I would bet John eventually takes a leadership role. He may even try to take his own life. If so, Al will be the one to stop him, and Al and john will wind up together.



For reference, in case the whole review list was insight in to John Dorie....
Labyrinth - unsettling
On Golden Pond - very good
Smokey and the Bandit - excellent!
Somewhere In Time - questionable
Glitter - not as funny as promised
Green Mile - too long
Watership Down - wish it was longer
Friday the 13th - too violent
Road To Bali - good time!
Meet John Doe

Watership down likely has significance... road to Bali may be John and Morgan... Labrynth being "unsettling" may be insight in to John himself... The kid had power and a destiny to fufill...maybe john is afraid of his. (either that or he was referencing Bowies spandex clad crotch bulge)

 

[number51]

So many words.

 

[Ares]

Was I supposed to understand why Alicia shot John or nah?

Cuz I didn't....

If she was aiming for Naomi/Laura for unknown reasons and hit John, she really sucks ass with a rifle lol.

 

[airtime143]

Was I supposed to understand why Alicia shot John or nah?

Cuz I didn't....

If she was aiming for Naomi/Laura for unknown reasons and hit John, she really sucks ass with a rifle lol.

She was aiming at laura.... so now, what the ****?
She claims she didnt make it out.
She also immediately goes in to a rage when seeing her.

Maybe Laura was a plant for the Vultures.
Maybe Laura tried to ditch out again and caused whatever befell the stadium.
Who knows, Maybe it was as simple as laura taking off with the rover... Madison had her daughter stock it up "just in case".
Undoubtedly, Laura was integral in whatever happened to Madison.

 

[Ares]

She was aiming at laura.... so now, what the ****?
She claims she didnt make it out.
She also immediately goes in to a rage when seeing her.

Maybe Laura was a plant for the Vultures.
Maybe Laura tried to ditch out again and caused whatever befell the stadium.
Who knows, Maybe it was as simple as laura taking off with the rover... Madison had her daughter stock it up "just in case".
Undoubtedly, Laura was integral in whatever happened to Madison.

Yeah on both.... I think it will be Laura/Naomi (they need to pick a fucking name) ditching out for the 900th time helped cause the downfall of the stadium or some such.

I suppose my guess about John holding her captive is probably wrong.... she didn't react in horror when she saw him.

I am assuming he lives though.... seems like a waste to build that character to kill him 5 episodes in.