fire vdn

[JimmyBulls]

The Bulls are a team that will be struggling below, at, or a game or 2 above .500 and this is how that type of team looks. They can look good beating(or alomst beating) the better teams in the league, but then they can look like crap against one of the league's worst. Welcome to Chicago Bulls mediocore basketball.

I don't think firing VDN in the middle of the season will prove much. I definitely don't think he's a wise option long term. If there was some substantive gain that would come from firing VDN, I would be on the dump him wagon. Unfortunately, I don't think dumping VDN for a current assistant will change the reality of a team that is just not that good.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Being up by 35 points and you still play only 7 players says it all.

Not being able to tell your team to get the ball to the basket and stop shooting long 2 pointers, that´s just bad.

Not having a single system but pick and roll is ENOUGH for me to FIRE this COACH.

 

[DASMACKDOWN]

No that game is on Vinny.

Its not talent that lost us the game it was definitely coaching.

Yes you can lose any lead in the NBA to good teams.

But not 35 pt leads.

There is no justification for that unless you freakishly got 3 players hurt at the same time.

Up 35, we could have comfortably had Pargo, Hunter, JJ,Taj amd Gray out there and not worry about giving up a 35 pts lead.

Obviously Vinny was too worried about that and thats the reason why we lost.

 

[cool007]

Vinny should have been gone as soon as we lost to Nets and then lost to Hawks by almost 40 points.

But Bulls' management really SUCK big time. IMO, the whole front office and the coaching staff should be gone.

Got a new sig to remind me why we suck.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Haha your sig is funny as hell, although it´s a damn serious topic!

 

[Bullsman24]

LMFAO ahahahahaha, i fell out of my chair laughing when i saw that

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yeah that's a really funny sig. Sorta how I felt at the end of the game...

 

[Bullsman24]

guys, how can we fire vinny. i mean, who else's hair on the bulls are we supposed to envy??? joakim noah? pete myers? we need a coach with good hair, and the top coaches available right now such as byron scott, avery johnson and lawrence frank have extremely mediocre hair. we need hair we can believe in.

 

[Bullsman24]

sorry sorry please don't punch me! this might be the lamest thing i've ever done!

 

[TheStig]

DASMACKDOWN wrote:

No that game is on Vinny.

Its not talent that lost us the game it was definitely coaching.

Yes you can lose any lead in the NBA to good teams.

But not 35 pt leads.

There is no justification for that unless you freakishly got 3 players hurt at the same time.

Up 35, we could have comfortably had Pargo, Hunter, JJ,Taj amd Gray out there and not worry about giving up a 35 pts lead.

Obviously Vinny was too worried about that and thats the reason why we lost.

So we lost with our regular rotation players and you think our scrubs could hold the lead better.

 

[MADman24]

TheStig wrote:

So we lost with our regular rotation players and you think our scrubs could hold the lead better.

The point is that if our starters had come out in the middle of the third they would have been fresh by the early 4th and easily been able to finish this game up.

 

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

A Bulls team that was coached by Phil Jackson once blew a 31 point lead. And yes, Jordan & Pippen were playing. Admittedly we weren't playing the Stockton/Malone Jazz today, but even HOF coaches can blow leads.

Oh wow really? You know what that team needed? They needed Ben Gordon! Would have made a huge damn difference...they wouldn't have blown that lead if they had Ben Gordon...Jordan move the heck out the way...Gordon time!

I thing is for certain. If BG was on the team still, he would've forced the issue & got to the FT line. People seem to forget that BG was our best FT shooter, not only because of his percentage but the fact that he led the team the past 3 seasons in FT attempts.

However, this game was lost because of the Grade A moron that is Vinny Del Negro. When the ship is sinking, the captain doesn't just sit on his hands, he tries to hold back the tide. It's called adjustments you friggin' dumbass! When your team is up by 35, you don't keep the majority of your starters out there. You don't use only 7 players in the first of a back to back or for large portions of the season. And once again, you DON'T waste all your timeouts before the final play. What about that does he not understand!? Looks like my prediction from 2 weeks ago will come true. Vinny will be gone X-mas eve.

 

[TheStig]

MADman24 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

So we lost with our regular rotation players and you think our scrubs could hold the lead better.

The point is that if our starters had come out in the middle of the third they would have been fresh by the early 4th and easily been able to finish this game up.

Or they would have started losing the lead quicker. Considering they'd be playing worse players. You make it sound like they played some out of the ordinary minutes to be tired, they played their standard 7 man rotation. Getting in the scrubs would have left us questioning why VDN would take out his best players when its time to close out the game. In situations like this, when the team gets complacent and you have no bench, there is no good answer. All you can ask is that the coach puts his best players out there and tries to come up with a scheme to stop them, sometimes i just doesn't happen, kinda the same problem the kings had in the first half.

 

[Diddy1122]

TheStig wrote:

MADman24 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

So we lost with our regular rotation players and you think our scrubs could hold the lead better.

The point is that if our starters had come out in the middle of the third they would have been fresh by the early 4th and easily been able to finish this game up.

Or they would have started losing the lead quicker. Considering they'd be playing worse players. You make it sound like they played some out of the ordinary minutes to be tired, they played their standard 7 man rotation. Getting in the scrubs would have left us questioning why VDN would take out his best players when its time to close out the game. In situations like this, when the team gets complacent and you have no bench, there is no good answer. All you can ask is that the coach puts his best players out there and tries to come up with a scheme to stop them, sometimes i just doesn't happen, kinda the same problem the kings had in the first half.

Wrong. The Kings used 10 players. Guess who was a BIG reason why they won that game? Udoka, a bench player. He had 15pts in the 4th. Fresh legs would have helped, even if the talent isn't on par with the starters. We lacked energy for most of that 2nd half. Coaches make adjustments. And coaches don't leave their starters out there during a blowout in the 3rd, they rest them for the 4th. Vinny failed to do that, as he's done many times already with this ridiculous 7-man rotation. Pargo, JJ, or even Hunter should have made appearances in this game. Make no mistake this loss is on Vinny.

 

[TheStig]

Diddy1122 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

MADman24 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

So we lost with our regular rotation players and you think our scrubs could hold the lead better.

The point is that if our starters had come out in the middle of the third they would have been fresh by the early 4th and easily been able to finish this game up.

Or they would have started losing the lead quicker. Considering they'd be playing worse players. You make it sound like they played some out of the ordinary minutes to be tired, they played their standard 7 man rotation. Getting in the scrubs would have left us questioning why VDN would take out his best players when its time to close out the game. In situations like this, when the team gets complacent and you have no bench, there is no good answer. All you can ask is that the coach puts his best players out there and tries to come up with a scheme to stop them, sometimes i just doesn't happen, kinda the same problem the kings had in the first half.

Wrong. The Kings used 10 players. Guess who was a BIG reason why they won that game? Udoka, a bench player. He had 15pts in the 4th. Fresh legs would have helped, even if the talent isn't on par with the starters. We lacked energy for most of that 2nd half. Coaches make adjustments. And coaches don't leave their starters out there during a blowout in the 3rd, they rest them for the 4th. Vinny failed to do that, as he's done many times already with this ridiculous 7-man rotation. Pargo, JJ, or even Hunter should have made appearances in this game. Make no mistake this loss is on Vinny.

Oh please, Pargo JJ or Hunter wouldn't have done anything. If they had the capability to do anything they would have earned rotation minutes, not to mention 2 of the three are probably still injured. Furthermore, you said yourself they were playing their normal rotation so they shouldn't be tired. Lastly, we just don't have the depth on the bench outside of Kirk and Miller to actually play anyone yet. JJ is a project, Hunter is done and Pargo is still recovering from being in russia.

A streaky shooter got a bunch of open shots and made them. I wish our streaky shooters could do that. Thats more of the problem. We just didn't hit shots and are streaky. We could shoot 70% in the first half and go cold. We also became complacent and got comfortable with the lead and gave up. Don't give me they were tired, they are professional athletes playing within the course of the game. Wilt Chamberlin played over 48 mpg for a full season and our guys are tired a quarter of the way in averaging 35-38mpg.

 

[houheffna]

You don't play a "standard 7 man rotation" during the season....you do that in the playoffs...playing so few players during the season is practically suicidal...

 

[Chitown773]

Of course, things looked a bit different from the other side. K.C. Johnson of the Chicago Tribune explains: "Joakim Noah leaned back in a chair late Monday, eyes closed, hood up, one sock on. "I ain't got nothing to say," said one of the most talkative Bulls.

His depressed pose, which he held for several minutes, had said it all. So had the vociferous boos that rained down from the Untied Center fans after the Bulls allowed the NBA's biggest comeback since 1996.

Vying for their second three-game winning streak this season, the Bulls instead suffered a complete collapse, losing all of a 35-point third-quarter lead in a stunning 102-98 loss to the Kings.

After a torrid start that featured season highs for points in a quarter and a half, the Bulls made just two fourth-quarter field goals and got outscored 33-10. Rarely has a laugher turned so serious so suddenly.

"We're not good enough to take a minute off, let alone a half," coach Vinny Del Negro said.

 

[Diddy1122]

TheStig wrote:

Oh please, Pargo JJ or Hunter wouldn't have done anything. If they had the capability to do anything they would have earned rotation minutes, not to mention 2 of the three are probably still injured. Furthermore, you said yourself they were playing their normal rotation so they shouldn't be tired. Lastly, we just don't have the depth on the bench outside of Kirk and Miller to actually play anyone yet. JJ is a project, Hunter is done and Pargo is still recovering from being in russia.

A streaky shooter got a bunch of open shots and made them. I wish our streaky shooters could do that. Thats more of the problem. We just didn't hit shots and are streaky. We could shoot 70% in the first half and go cold. We also became complacent and got comfortable with the lead and gave up. Don't give me they were tired, they are professional athletes playing within the course of the game. Wilt Chamberlin played over 48 mpg for a full season and our guys are tired a quarter of the way in averaging 35-38mpg.

I won't argue that the depth doesn't suck, but the team is at almost FULL strength right now (minus Tyrus) & Vinny still chooses to go with only 7 players. It's not fatigue from just 1 game. It's progressive fatigue from riding the same 7 players night in & night out all friggin' year. I'll admit some of this is injuries, but alot of this is Vinny's atrocious rotations.

Our coach is a BIG problem. And the rotation is not "normal" that's the whole point. Coaches do not use a 7-player rotation the entire year, that's beyond idiotic. And they don't use a 7-player rotation when up by 35, and they don't use a 7-player rotation on the first game of a back to back. Plain & simple.

And the point of putting Pargo, JJ, or Hunter in is not because they will score, it's to spell minutes during the blowout portion of the game & hopefully not blow the whole lead. You know, something a COMPETENT coach would do. Vinny has failed at this time & time again. The guy is a complete joke & he needs to go NOW. But it should be a Merry X-mas because, like I said weeks ago, he will be gone on Christmas Eve.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I'm fairly certain any other coach would have started putting in some of the guys who ride the bench in when they were up 35. Perhaps if they started to lose the lead, he puts the regulars back in, but the point of this is to REST your regular rotation players so they don't die in January. The way VDN handles his rotations, everyone will be dead by January. Who knows? Maybe a half quarter of Jannero Pargo would have put a bunch of points on the board and then we wouldn't have had that giant comeback. Or he might have done just as badly as he does most of the time. Either way, Rose would've had some rest for tonight's game.

 

[TheStig]

Diddy1122 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Oh please, Pargo JJ or Hunter wouldn't have done anything. If they had the capability to do anything they would have earned rotation minutes, not to mention 2 of the three are probably still injured. Furthermore, you said yourself they were playing their normal rotation so they shouldn't be tired. Lastly, we just don't have the depth on the bench outside of Kirk and Miller to actually play anyone yet. JJ is a project, Hunter is done and Pargo is still recovering from being in russia.

A streaky shooter got a bunch of open shots and made them. I wish our streaky shooters could do that. Thats more of the problem. We just didn't hit shots and are streaky. We could shoot 70% in the first half and go cold. We also became complacent and got comfortable with the lead and gave up. Don't give me they were tired, they are professional athletes playing within the course of the game. Wilt Chamberlin played over 48 mpg for a full season and our guys are tired a quarter of the way in averaging 35-38mpg.

I won't argue that the depth doesn't suck, but the team is at almost FULL strength right now (minus Tyrus) & Vinny still chooses to go with only 7 players. It's not fatigue from just 1 game. It's progressive fatigue from riding the same 7 players night in & night out all friggin' year. I'll admit some of this is injuries, but alot of this is Vinny's atrocious rotations.

Our coach is a BIG problem. And the rotation is not "normal" that's the whole point. Coaches do not use a 7-player rotation the entire year, that's beyond idiotic. And they don't use a 7-player rotation when up by 35, and they don't use a 7-player rotation on the first game of a back to back. Plain & simple.

And the point of putting Pargo, JJ, or Hunter in is not because they will score, it's to spell minutes during the blowout portion of the game & hopefully not blow the whole lead. You know, something a COMPETENT coach would do. Vinny has failed at this time & time again. The guy is a complete joke & he needs to go NOW. But it should be a Merry X-mas because, like I said weeks ago, he will be gone on Christmas Eve.

How are we full strength? Loul Deng is playing through a fractured thumb, Jerome James is out indefinitely, TT is out too, Pargo is still injured from russia and not the same player he was before and Hunter has had ankle and old age issues all year. I'd love to play more guys, especially pargo to see if he can get hot and really help out but we don't have the healthy bodies off the bench. The only full strength guy not playing now is JJ and I agree he should get some minutes to spell Deng. But he just issn't that goo now so I don't see him getting more than 5mpg. I think when pargo gets a 100% he will start getting a 10-12mpg and help out with the depth.

I think you are blaming the coach for the limitations on the roster. Rarely do you have an nba coach who can make his team produce greater than the sum of the parts. The bulls are currently producing at what the sum of the parts can. Their simply not that good and diluting with injured or lesser quality players isn't going to make us better. In fact, the problem you have with Vinny is he is playing too much for today.

I challenge you to find us a suitable replacement today that can make this team significantly better. Personally, I don't mind what VDN is doing, he is inflating guys stats and playing for today. Both of which are best for this limited group. I want Rose and Noah to get all the run they can handle and build up Kirk, Deng and Salmons so their values go up.

BTW after looking at the stats, Pargo has played 22 of 26 games and JJ has played in 18 of 26 games so they have both played fairly regularly.