Garoppolo to Bears.....eventually

[run and shoot]

I like Garapollo, but if he is any good they will keep him and he will replace Tom.

The Bears should draft and develop their own QB.[/QUOTE]



why is this such a horrible thought If we can't trust ourselves to drafr a Qb, then we can't trust ourselves to for 1.

 

[run and shoot]

you blame that all on Cutler?

yeah, jay ain't a winner. We've seen teams get new Qb's ( with weak wr talent) and get into da SB.

 

[rawdawg]

I didn't make this a Cutler Ryan debate you did. I rattled off QBs that have been better than Cutler over the last five years 15 of them who have all been better than Cutler since Cutler came to Chicago. You took exception and went with Matt Ryan as the exception.

The only person who took this down the path it's on is you.

You rattled off QBS that make those around him better in a post you started off with "Cutler doesn't make players better". You were literally the first person to type "Cutler" in this thread about Jimmy Garapollo.

I responded to your incorrect notion that Matt Ryan deserved to be in that last of 15 QBs.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[ijustposthere]

I blame Cutler for the inability to make the players around him better and being the type of player that needs better players around him in order for him to perform at a top-15 level. Big Ben, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck and Matt Ryan are QBs that have elevated their teams to a new level based on their play over the last five years based on how good they are as QBs. That's 15 QBs off the top of my head who have made their teams better and haven't had to build around their QBs to make that QB perform at a slightly adequate level. All of them have outplayed Cutler since his arrival in Chicago, so at BEST Cutler is a top-16 in that time frame.

But to even be adequate, Cutler needs a two Pro Bowl wide receivers (Jeffery and Marshall) a Pro Bowl left tackle and RG (Bushrod and Kyle Long) a criminally underrated LG in Matt Slauson, a Pro Bowl RB (Matt Forte) a Pro Bowl TE (Martellus Bennett) and still can't play at the standard of any of those QBs listed. Cutler has been spoon fed like a baby during his Bears tenure and at no point has he elevated his play to the point that you could say man he made everyone around him better.

None of that has anything to do with the Bears being unable to recognize talent, or completely fail to develop it, at the QB position long before Cutler. He's just the latest in a list of failures at the position.

 

[mecha]

you can all argue for days about "the Bears could've drafted __________" instead (most popular option being Aaron Rodgers) the reality is if the Bears would have drafted those guys when they were drafted they wouldn't have been the players they are now. nobody on Lovie Smith's staff would've pulled it off, and the same for Trestman's people. you can say Jay Cutler eats cocks 12 times a day too, he's proof positive of this shit development. which starting quarterback in the league, possibly in league history (and with the same team) has had to work under as many different coaching staffs? save me the "coach killer" bullshit, all those coaches were victims of their own circumstance, every single time.

which quarterback were the Chicago Bears going to draft and feed to 4 different staffs in a few years? which quarterback would they have drafted and produced and made elite?

this team would've fucked up Andrew Luck.

 

[inchibearfan]

I agree if we are talking the Brett Hundleys of the world. But we are talking Jimmy Garopollo, future NFL star.

Lol. You can't be serious.

 

[BearsFan51]

You rattled off QBS that make those around him better in a post you started off with "Cutler doesn't make players better". You were literally the first person to type "Cutler" in this thread about Jimmy Garapollo.

I responded to your incorrect notion that Matt Ryan deserved to be in that last of 15 QBs.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

A thread about trading for an even more unproven QB than the last guy we traded for. A thread about a player from a team with a history of fleecing other NFL teams with their fake promising long term options at QB.

Garopollo is Kyle Orton at the moment and not much more than that. He's looked good in the preseason and in garbage time in blow out wins. There's nothing he did in college to warrant the hype of being a franchise QB. Watch his throws against the Bears they limited most of his passes to s lot of the same shit you see from kids in spread offenses in college.

There's absolutely no legitimate sample size on him that warrants the risk of trading a second round pick for him or more likely a larger package.

There isn't a single former Patriots starter that has had long term success in the NFL as a starting QB in the NFL and there's no way the Bears should risk the next five years and who knows what type of draft picks on s guy with less talent and less promise than Jay Cutler.

 

[rawdawg]

A thread about trading for an even more unproven QB than the last guy we traded for. A thread about a player from a team with a history of fleecing other NFL teams with their fake promising long term options at QB.

Garopollo is Kyle Orton at the moment and not much more than that. He's looked good in the preseason and in garbage time in blow out wins. There's nothing he did in college to warrant the hype of being a franchise QB. Watch his throws against the Bears they limited most of his passes to s lot of the same shit you see from kids in spread offenses in college.

There's absolutely no legitimate sample size on him that warrants the risk of trading a second round pick for him or more likely a larger package.

There isn't a single former Patriots starter that has had long term success in the NFL as a starting QB in the NFL and there's no way the Bears should risk the next five years and who knows what type of draft picks on s guy with less talent and less promise than Jay Cutler.

Yep. And I didn't argue that a single time. Just argued that Matt Ryan is this shining beacon of QB that the Bears (and other teams) should seek after.

Oh and I will point out, have you seen the throws Tom Brady makes? He makes a lot of the same throws Garapollo made against the Bears. That's their offense. Has been for years. Brady's just really, really good at it. Every Pats QB looks good because of that system. And they've all struggled outside of the system....because of not being in the system.

 

[BearsFan51]

Yep. And I didn't argue that a single time. Just argued that Matt Ryan is this shining beacon of QB that the Bears (and other teams) should seek after.

Oh and I will point out, have you seen the throws Tom Brady makes? He makes a lot of the same throws Garapollo made against the Bears. That's their offense. Has been for years. Brady's just really, really good at it. Every Pats QB looks good because of that system. And they've all struggled outside of the system....because of not being in the system.

That's not even close to being true and it's really sad that you're trying to insinuate that Brady's success comes from the system.

Perhaps no other QB in the NFL attacks the middle of the field as frequently and as successfully as Tom Brady does. Garopollo was stringently limited to the sidelines and took a few shots in the middle of the field. He had one good throw in the middle and three near picks in the middle just against the Bears.

Brady's primary focus is the middle of the field and he's a master of it and it's why he has four Super Bowl wins and two other appearances.

To say that Brady is even partially a product of the system is monumentally insulting to one of the greatest of all time.

 

[rawdawg]

That's not even close to being true and it's really sad that you're trying to insinuate that Brady's success comes from the system.

Perhaps no other QB in the NFL attacks the middle of the field as frequently and as successfully as Tom Brady does. Garopollo was stringently limited to the sidelines and took a few shots in the middle of the field. He had one good throw in the middle and three near picks in the middle just against the Bears.

Brady's primary focus is the middle of the field and he's a master of it and it's why he has four Super Bowl wins and two other appearances.

To say that Brady is even partially a product of the system is monumentally insulting to one of the greatest of all time.

Just because you took it to mean that, doesn't mean I said that. Brady helped make the system. It's not the same thing Bledsoe ran before him. And the Pats have gone from Weis to McDaniels to Bill O'Brien back to McDaniels, Brady has been the constant. Obviously, he is a huge part of the system's impletation and ability to perform consistently the last 15 years.

Sorry, if I didn't make it clear that I wasn't calling Brady a system QB. But also sorry that you keep reading things that aren't on your screen.

 

[BearsFan51]

Just because you took it to mean that, doesn't mean I said that. Brady helped make the system. It's not the same thing Bledsoe ran before him. And the Pats have gone from Weis to McDaniels to Bill O'Brien back to McDaniels, Brady has been the constant. Obviously, he is a huge part of the system's impletation and ability to perform consistently the last 15 years.

Sorry, if I didn't make it clear that I wasn't calling Brady a system QB. But also sorry that you keep reading things that aren't on your screen.

If you're so entirely in agreement with me then what point are you trying to make?

Garopollo did not run the same type of game plan against the Bears as Brady has.

Garopollo is not worth trading for now nor will he be after a four game sample to start the season.

This quote I don't how else to read it for what it says about system and the success of Brady within the system and how Garopollo made throws that are a part of the system and the system is the reason for their frequent success.


Oh and I will point out, have you seen the throws Tom Brady makes? He makes a lot of the same throws Garapollo made against the Bears. That's their offense. Has been for years. Brady's just really, really good at it. Every Pats QB looks good because of that system. And they've all struggled outside of the system....because of not being in the system.

 

[Washington]

How many QBs have left Green Bay and New England and had long term success or even better success than Cutler has?
.

Mark Brunell and Matt Hasselbeck to name 2.

 

[ijustposthere]

Mark Brunell and Matt Hasselbeck to name 2.

Kurt Warner. Drew Bledsoe.

 

[number51]

I think the most obvious solution here is that the Pats retain Garoppolo, Tom Brady isn't re-upped, and the Bears sign Tom Brady to spearhead their youth movement during their "total rebuild".



Kind of an interesting idea...I went back and looked at how many SB-winning teams traded for their starting QB, also noticing which teams had their QB 'develop' in a different organization:

Jim Plunkett won two SBs with the Raiders after developing with the Pats and spending time with the Niners
Joe Thiesmann was acquired by Washington via trade, although he was playing in the CFL
Doug Williams developed with TB and won with Washington
Steve Young was acquired by SF via trade
Brett Favre was acquired via trade, although he never really played for Atlanta (thank you Jerry Glanville!)
Trent Dilfer was acquired via trade
Brad Johnson was acquired via FA (I believe)
Drew Brees was acquired via FA
Peyton Manning was acquired via FA

There were also many SB-losing QBs that had come from elsewhere...Lamonica, Morrall, Gannon, etc.

Basically, its not that uncommon for a team to win a SB with a QB they didn't draft. The trick is that you have to acquire the right one.

That is surprising to see, wouldn't have thought that many. In all fairness some of those guys are not great QB's and just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Williams, Dilfer, Johnson, and 2015 Manning come to mind.

 

[BearsFan51]

Mark Brunell and Matt Hasselbeck to name 2.

So you're going all the way back to the Mike Holmgren era prior to the arrival of Mike McCarthy and a completely different offensive system that exists today to make your point. That's what 20 years ago? That Matt Flynn kid what a great QB...

 

[bamainatlanta]

Mark Brunell was never that good. Not sure why people considered him to be a stud

 

[westcoast bear fanatic]

Ditching Cutler for Garropollo would be worse then Slauson for Whitehair/Grasu. Why downgrade the QB position for a noodle armed backup QB. Bears need to draft and develop their own guy.

 

[Washington]

So you're going all the way back to the Mike Holmgren era prior to the arrival of Mike McCarthy and a completely different offensive system that exists today to make your point. That's what 20 years ago? That Matt Flynn kid what a great QB...

You didn't set predicates when you asked

How many QBs have left Green Bay and New England and had long term success or even better success than Cutler has?

.

 

[number51]

If the Bears have Matt Flynn instead of Jay Cutler for their Lions games last year, we might be talking about the Bears improving upon their playoff berth.

This is based on Flynn's impressive 2015 numbers? 0 int's.

 

[BearsFan51]

You didn't set predicates when you asked .

Given that predicates would seem to matter to the current situation and current era of football one would assume you wouldn't have to set those given we're talking about replacing the current QB. I mean it would seem to be relevant information.