Gary F**kin Harris

[Xplosive]

I see where you're coming from, but saying that McDermott has to be a star in order for the trade not to be a failure is a little much. Not saying that Kyle Korver is acceptable, but I'm pretty sure he's going to be at least that within this year alone. If he's a good player, I'd say the trade was worth it. Now if your boy Gary Harris ends up being a stud, I'll suck it up and admit defeat, but we just don't know yet. If he was so great, why did all those teams pass him up anyway? He was projected to be a lotto pick and almost fell to the 20s. Call for GarPax's head all you like, but you can't deny they have been pretty good with their draft picks for the most part.

I would call trading 3 picks for Kyle Korver a failure.
I would say anything less than an All-Star from McDermott is a failure. Doug doesn't have to be a Superstar player but passing up on not only Gary Harris, but Zack Lavine, TJ Warren, Adriene Payne, Nurkic, Rodney Hood, Jordan Adams, James Young, Kyle Anderson and PJ Hairston. All of those players were options for the #11 pick and the Bulls could have had two of them if they just kept their own picks.

The draft was loaded and instead of taking two shots they overpaid for one.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I would call trading 3 picks for Kyle Korver a failure, I would say anything less than an All-Star from McDermott is a failure. Doug doesn't have to be a Superstar player but passing up on not only Gary Harris, but Zack Lavine, TJ Warren, Adriene Payne, Nurkic, Rodney Hood, Jordan Adams, James Young, Kyle Anderson and PJ Hairston. All of those players were options for the #11 pick and the Bulls could have had two of them if they just kept their own picks.

The draft was loaded and instead of taking two shots they overpaid for one.

Again, I'm pretty sure he will be more than Korver right away. He has a lot more game than just the 3. I guess we'll see if it would've been better to take two supposedly lesser players. I will say right away though, I can see why they didn't go for a guy like Lavine (someone who I really wanted going into the draft) or Hairston or even Young. Those guys are fairly raw and arguably wouldn't be able to contribute well right away. Warren can't shoot so he's not as helpful as it would seem. Again, it's really hard to say without seeing anyone play in some real competition. You could be completely right for all I know.

 

[Xplosive]

2003: Kirk Hinrich = Huge Failure (refused to trade Donyelle Marshall to move up for Dwayne Wade, and Kirk has always been a role player unworthy of #7 pick)
2004: Ben Gordon/Luol Deng = Huge Success
2006: Tyrus Thomas/Viktor Khryapa = Huge Failure (Lamarcus Aldrige traded for a couple of busts)
2007: Joakim Noah = Success
2008: Derrick Rose = Huge Success
2009: J.Johsnon/Taj Gibson = Semi-Success
2010: Kevin Seraphin = Failure (traded #17 pick to make space for free agents they failed to sign)
2011: Jimmy Butler = Success
2012: Marquis Teague = Failure (Teague is a bust)
2013: Tony Snell = TBD

I would say that GarPax have had as many failures as successes so people should stop acting like they have been awesome in the draft. They have had some good picks, bad picks, good moves, and terrible moves. 2014 and McDermott should be the final straw if he fails to live up to expectations and this team doesn't make it to the finals.

 

[Xplosive]

Again, I'm pretty sure he will be more than Korver right away. He has a lot more game than just the 3. I guess we'll see if it would've been better to take two supposedly lesser players. I will say right away though, I can see why they didn't go for a guy like Lavine (someone who I really wanted going into the draft) or Hairston or even Young. Those guys are fairly raw and arguably wouldn't be able to contribute well right away. Warren can't shoot so he's not as helpful as it would seem. Again, it's really hard to say without seeing anyone play in some real competition. You could be completely right for all I know.

I was very impressed with DMC getting to the foul line, that alone makes him potentially special. He was also aggressive shooting the ball which is what the Bulls need, so I'm not down on him at the moment.

I see MDJ and Mirotic as the shooters from the SF position the team needed, but who's the shooter from the SG position? That's why Gary Harris/Nik Stauskas made more sense to me. Lets just hope Tony Snell can carry over his summer league performance to the regular season. If he does then SG was not as big of a need, and GarPax will be right in taking the best pure shooter in the draft regardless of position.

 

[clonetrooper264]

2003: Kirk Hinrich = Huge Failure (refused to trade Donyelle Marshall to move up for Dwayne Wade, and Kirk has always been a role player unworthy of #7 pick)
2004: Ben Gordon/Luol Deng = Huge Success
2006: Tyrus Thomas/Viktor Khryapa = Huge Failure (Lamarcus Aldrige traded for a couple of busts)
2007: Joakim Noah = Success
2008: Derrick Rose = Huge Success
2009: J.Johsnon/Taj Gibson = Semi-Success
2010: Kevin Seraphin = Failure (traded away to make space for free agents they failed to sign)
2011: Jimmy Butler = Success
2012: Marquis Teague = Failure (Teague is a bust)
2013: Tony Snell = TBD

I would say that GarPax have had as many failures as successes so people should stop acting like they have been awesome in the draft. They have had some good picks, bad picks, good moves, and terrible moves. 2014 and McDermott should be the final straw if he fails to live up to expectations and this team doesn't make it to the finals.

Kirk a huge failure...alrighty then. I won't claim to know what happened during the draft, but from what I've read it seemed like the Heat weren't going to give up their pick for Wade. I find it hard to believe that Donyell Marshall of all people was what prevented the Bulls from moving up. Kirk's never been a stud like the other players in that draft, but he did make the all rookie team that year and made the all defensive 2nd team in 06. You can't call that a huge failure. Huge failures don't accomplish anything. Maybe a regular failure? He's had some pretty good years and the past few have been meh at best.

Trading Seraphin for cap space that ended up being used on Boozer, Korver, Brewer, and Watson is a failure? Well darn GarPax for not knowing that Lebron, Wade, and Bosh had plans to join in Miami the whole time. Those incompetent fools.

Their biggest failure has definitely been the Tyrus Thomas pick, but even so, they've made more good picks than bad. Teague was supposedly the BPO available at the time and known to be a project. It seems whenever they go for the projects (Thomas, Teague, Johnson) they turn out bad. When they go for players that fit their system, the "high character guys" for lack of a better term, that have been in school longer, they do well. Doug fits the mold of the latter, so it would appear that he has a higher chance of success.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I was very impressed with DMC getting to the foul line, that alone makes him potentially special. He was also aggressive shooting the ball which is what the Bulls need, so I'm not down on him at the moment.

I see MDJ and Mirotic as the shooters from the SF position the team needed, but who's the shooter from the SG position? That's why Gary Harris/Nik Stauskas made more sense to me. Lets just hope Tony Snell can carry over his summer league performance to the regular season. If he does then SG was not as big of a need, and GarPax will be right in taking the best pure shooter in the draft regardless of position.

You could argue that they would've taken Stauskas if he was on the board over McDermott, but we'll never know. A lot of us were pretty high on Stauskas coming in, but he rose up the draft ranks really fast. Not much we could've done there as far as I know. Gary Harris was another guy a lot of us wanted, but he did only shoot 35% from 3 in college. Doug shot like 44%. Even in summer league, Harris shot like 32% from 3 (and I think from the field as well) while McDermott shot above 40% from 3 and I think 48% from the field. I think that does show you something as far as shooting goes: Doug is waaaaaaay better. And for a team that really really needs shooting, that's huge. What's good about Doug is that he has a versatile offensive game. He's not just a Korver like spot up shooter. He can be very good in that role, but he's a lot more than that. If we see him take a few dribble and pull up, we won't cringe. If we see him in the post, we're expecting a Dirk fadeaway with the same results.

 

[The Hawk]

I would call trading 3 picks for Kyle Korver a failure.
I would say anything less than an All-Star from McDermott is a failure. Doug doesn't have to be a Superstar player but passing up on not only Gary Harris, but Zack Lavine, TJ Warren, Adriene Payne, Nurkic, Rodney Hood, Jordan Adams, James Young, Kyle Anderson and PJ Hairston. All of those players were options for the #11 pick and the Bulls could have had two of them if they just kept their own picks.

The draft was loaded and instead of taking two shots they overpaid for one.

All drafts are a crap shoot. Sure things sit on the bench and get cut sometimes. I liked Harris for example but thought he was undersized a bit, otherwise he'd hav been drafted higher. I like what I've seen with McBuckets and think that the Bulls did not blow many draft picks throughout Gars tenure and I think that Thibs saw what he wanted and they got him. I trust Thibs judgement is all.

 

[Xplosive]

You could argue that they would've taken Stauskas if he was on the board over McDermott, but we'll never know. A lot of us were pretty high on Stauskas coming in, but he rose up the draft ranks really fast. Not much we could've done there as far as I know. Gary Harris was another guy a lot of us wanted, but he did only shoot 35% from 3 in college. Doug shot like 44%. Even in summer league, Harris shot like 32% from 3 (and I think from the field as well) while McDermott shot above 40% from 3 and I think 48% from the field. I think that does show you something as far as shooting goes: Doug is waaaaaaay better. And for a team that really really needs shooting, that's huge. What's good about Doug is that he has a versatile offensive game. He's not just a Korver like spot up shooter. He can be very good in that role, but he's a lot more than that. If we see him take a few dribble and pull up, we won't cringe. If we see him in the post, we're expecting a Dirk fadeaway with the same results.

FG percentage is only one aspect of the game, and Forwards tend to have higher FG%'s than Guards. DMC shoots waaaaayyy better than Harris and Harris Defends SG's waaaayyyyy better than McDermott can defend SF's.

The fact the Bulls have Mirotic who can score and shoot at high percentage for the SF position means DMC might not even get much playing time. Meanwhile the Bulls could have had...

PG - Rose
SG - Harris/Snell
SF - Butler/Mirotic
PF - Gibson/Gasol
C - Noah

I like that lineup better than

PG - Rose
SG - Butler/Snell
SF - Dunleavy/McDermott/Mirotic
PF - Gasol/Gibson
C - Noah

The first lineup can play both ends of the floor much better than the second lineup. I want Butler out of the SG position because he can't shoot, and definitely don't want to see Dunleavy as a starter.

 

[clonetrooper264]

FG percentage is only one aspect of the game, and Forwards tend to have higher FG%'s than Guards. DMC shoots waaaaayyy better than Harris and Harris Defends SG's waaaayyyyy better than McDermott can defend SF's.

The fact the Bulls have Mirotic who can score and shoot at high percentage for the SF position means DMC might not even get much playing time. Meanwhile the Bulls could have had...

PG - Rose
SG - Harris/Snell
SF - Butler/Mirotic
PF - Gibson/Gasol
C - Noah

I like that lineup better than

PG - Rose
SG - Butler/Snell
SF - Dunleavy/McDermott/Mirotic
PF - Gasol/Gibson
C - Noah

The first lineup can play both ends of the floor much better than the second lineup. I want Butler out of the SG position because he can't shoot, and definitely don't want to see Dunleavy as a starter.

Ah so Mirotic is now exclusively a SF now eh? My Peja idea is catching on...though I think he'll be spending more time at the PF spot than at SF. Thibs has been calling him a stretch 4 the entire time and I think he'll be used that way for sure.

You high on Mirotic by the way? Don't think I've seen your thoughts on him in whatever other thread was going on about him.

FG% is only one aspect of the game, yet it's the sole reason everyone hates Kirk Hinrich. Plus...it was summer league. You would think a good player would at least be able to shoot above 32% from the field in summer league. I bet even Kirk Hinrich shot better than 32% in summer league.

Yes Harris way better than McDermott offensively. This is news to no one. We also know Thibs can construct a good defense even with lineups containing Boozer and Korver. In other words, we can compensate for bad defense. We can't really compensate for bad shooting...this has been made clear in recent seasons. You say Butler can't shoot (which may be true), but if Harris isn't that much better, is that not the same problem?

 

[Xplosive]

Ah so Mirotic is now exclusively a SF now eh? My Peja idea is catching on...though I think he'll be spending more time at the PF spot than at SF. Thibs has been calling him a stretch 4 the entire time and I think he'll be used that way for sure.

You high on Mirotic by the way? Don't think I've seen your thoughts on him in whatever other thread was going on about him.

FG% is only one aspect of the game, yet it's the sole reason everyone hates Kirk Hinrich. Plus...it was summer league. You would think a good player would at least be able to shoot above 32% from the field in summer league. I bet even Kirk Hinrich shot better than 32% in summer league.

Yes Harris way better than McDermott offensively. This is news to no one. We also know Thibs can construct a good defense even with lineups containing Boozer and Korver. In other words, we can compensate for bad defense. We can't really compensate for bad shooting...this has been made clear in recent seasons. You say Butler can't shoot (which may be true), but if Harris isn't that much better, is that not the same problem?

In 2008 Derrick Rose shot 29.4% from the field, and he turned out just fine, meanwhile Rajon Rondo shot 56.4% and he can't shoot a lick. John Wall shot 37% and Deron Williams shot 40% in summer league, so perhaps we should hold off more than 5 games on claiming Gary Harris is a terrible shooter. When I watched Harris play he made good moves and took shots from good spots on the floor. Harris shot 5-10 on 3pts in one game and 4-10 in another. He had a couple games where he shot 1-7 and 2-8 from 3pt range. Its pretty obvious he was taking a lot of three's which is why his percentage is low. I'm not worried that his shooting will remain at 32% after 5 games and I'm not anywhere near sure that DMC will continue to shoot 45% from 3pt range.

Mirotic can play SF/PF with good height and weight @ 6'10 230lbs, DMC is 6'7 217lbs so he isn't close to being a PF in the NBA. I'm not more high on Mirotic than I am on Doug, I just see them as similar in skill set and not likely to be on the floor a lot at the same time if you plan on playing defense.

 

[clonetrooper264]

In 2008 Derrick Rose shot 29.4% from the field, and he turned out just fine, meanwhile Rajon Rondo shot 56.4% and he can't shoot a lick. John Wall shot 37% and Deron Williams shot 40% in summer league, so perhaps we should hold off more than 5 games on claiming Gary Harris is a terrible shooter. When I watched Harris play he made good moves and took shots from good spots on the floor. Harris shot 5-10 on 3pts in one game and 4-10 in another. He had a couple games where he shot 1-7 and 2-8 from 3pt range. Its pretty obvious he was taking a lot of three's which is why his percentage is low. I'm not worried that his shooting will remain at 32% after 5 games and I'm not anywhere near sure that DMC will continue to shoot 45% from 3pt range.

Mirotic can play SF/PF with good height and weight @ 6'10 230lbs, DMC is 6'7 217lbs so he isn't close to being a PF in the NBA. I'm not more high on Mirotic than I am on Doug, I just see them as similar in skill set and not likely to be on the floor a lot at the same time if you plan on playing defense.

You mean Derrick Rose shot 29.4% from 3 right? He shot like 48% from the field.

I never said Harris was a terrible shooter either. I just said he wasn't nearly as good as McDermott. I doubt anyone will debate that. Also like you, I don't think Harris will continue shooting 32% and McDermott probably won't shoot 44% from 3 during the year. That said, you attribute the low FG% to shooting lots of 3s, which is fine, but I'm hoping someone who's taking 7-10 3s per game is knocking them down at 37+%. McDermott also took a good amount of 3s and clearly made a higher percentage so I'm more confident in his ability to shoot well from 3 than I am Harris. Imo, Harris probably won't shoot 3s much better than Hinrich does (that's 37-38% btw), which isn't bad, but it's not overly great either. McDermott I'm fairly sure will shoot at least 40% from 3. Again, on a team that needed shooting, it made sense to want a guy who you're really confident will be a consistent threat from 3.

 

[Xplosive]

You mean Derrick Rose shot 29.4% from 3 right? He shot like 48% from the field.

I never said Harris was a terrible shooter either. I just said he wasn't nearly as good as McDermott. I doubt anyone will debate that. Also like you, I don't think Harris will continue shooting 32% and McDermott probably won't shoot 44% from 3 during the year. That said, you attribute the low FG% to shooting lots of 3s, which is fine, but I'm hoping someone who's taking 7-10 3s per game is knocking them down at 37+%. McDermott also took a good amount of 3s and clearly made a higher percentage so I'm more confident in his ability to shoot well from 3 than I am Harris. Imo, Harris probably won't shoot 3s much better than Hinrich does (that's 37-38% btw), which isn't bad, but it's not overly great either. McDermott I'm fairly sure will shoot at least 40% from 3. Again, on a team that needed shooting, it made sense to want a guy who you're really confident will be a consistent threat from 3.

No, Derrick only played two games and shot 3-8 for 10pts in the first game, and 2-9 for 9pts in the second game. Meanwhile Beasley was lighting up, and then Derrick sat out the rest of the games with knee tendonitis.

Doug was the top scorer in college and shot over 40% from the 3pt range. Its pretty obvious he was the best shooter in the draft and Harris wasn't even close. That still doesn't mean that shooting 3pointers should be the determining factor for who the Bulls selected, over scheme fit and positional needs. If the Bulls are desperate for a 3 point shooter sign Anthony Morrow he's great at it. They need players that can fill needs and help the team win, not just look to sell tickets off hype.

 

[clonetrooper264]

No, Derrick only played two games and shot 3-8 for 10pts in the first game, and 2-9 for 9pts in the second game. Meanwhile Beasley was lighting up, and then Derrick sat out the rest of the games with knee tendonitis.

Oh summer league...my fault.

Doug was the top scorer in college and shot over 40% from the 3pt range. Its pretty obvious he was the best shooter in the draft and Harris wasn't even close. That still doesn't mean that shooting 3pointers should be the determining factor for who the Bulls selected, over scheme fit and positional needs. If the Bulls are desperate for a 3 point shooter sign Anthony Morrow he's great at it. They need players that can fill needs and help the team win, not just look to sell tickets off hype.

What hype? Most people I talked to didn't like the pick. Also if I remember right, Morrow just got massively overpaid. Plus it's fairly obvious McDermott is more than just spot up shooter like Morrow is. He can score doing everything. That's why they picked him. He can shoot (fills a need) and can also score in a variety of other ways (helps the team win). I don't think fans are lining up to watch Doug McDermott play...unless they're all Creighton fans or something. They're lining up to watch Derrick Rose play if anything. If anyone's selling tickets off hype, it's Rose.

Again, you could be right, maybe McDermott is no fit and fizzles out of the rotation within the year. But considering how highly the FO and Thibs regard him, I'm guessing they know exactly what they want to do with him and believe he can be a good contributor to the team.

 

[Xplosive]

Oh summer league...my fault.


What hype? Most people I talked to didn't like the pick. Also if I remember right, Morrow just got massively overpaid. Plus it's fairly obvious McDermott is more than just spot up shooter like Morrow is. He can score doing everything. That's why they picked him. He can shoot (fills a need) and can also score in a variety of other ways (helps the team win). I don't think fans are lining up to watch Doug McDermott play...unless they're all Creighton fans or something. They're lining up to watch Derrick Rose play if anything. If anyone's selling tickets off hype, it's Rose.

Again, you could be right, maybe McDermott is no fit and fizzles out of the rotation within the year. But considering how highly the FO and Thibs regard him, I'm guessing they know exactly what they want to do with him and believe he can be a good contributor to the team.

My position is that the Bulls overpaid for a player that won't be better than the players they could have gotten had they not made the trade. We shall see, I definitely liked what I saw from McDermott in summer league so hopefully I was wrong.

 

[clonetrooper264]

My position is that the Bulls overpaid for a player that won't be better than the players they could have gotten had they not made the trade. We shall see, I definitely liked what I saw from McDermott in summer league so hopefully I was wrong.

Fair enough. Good day to you.

 

[Scoot26]

2003: Kirk Hinrich = Huge Failure (refused to trade Donyelle Marshall to move up for Dwayne Wade, and Kirk has always been a role player unworthy of #7 pick)That rumor was always just that, a rumor. Pat Riley I doubt was willing to trade that pick away. Also Kirk a failure? lol
2004: Ben Gordon/Luol Deng = Huge Success I wouldn't say huge, just a success.
2006: Tyrus Thomas/Viktor Khryapa = Huge Failure (Lamarcus Aldrige traded for a couple of busts)Thabo Sefolosha also came out of this draft.
2007: Joakim Noah = Success
2008: Derrick Rose = Huge Success Until his rash of injuries.
2009: J.Johsnon/Taj Gibson = Semi-Success
2010: Kevin Seraphin = Failure (traded #17 pick to make space for free agents they failed to sign) They signed Boozer, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, Keith Bogans. Wade, Bron, and Bosh all went to the same team and Joe Johnson signed a MAX contract, not much Bulls could do there.
2011: Jimmy Butler = Success Maybe
2012: Marquis Teague = Failure (Teague is a bust) 29th pick isn't exactly a bust, he just didn't pan out
2013: Tony Snell = TBD

I would say that GarPax have had as many failures as successes so people should stop acting like they have been awesome in the draft. They have had some good picks, bad picks, good moves, and terrible moves. 2014 and McDermott should be the final straw if he fails to live up to expectations and this team doesn't make it to the finals.

Personally I'm not that big on the McDermott pick, but I hope I am proven wrong. I'm not big on anything else that was pick after McDermott anyways. I just hope he is as good as GarPax think he is and that they hit on this pick. If not, oh well. Not every GM hits on picks.

 

[Xplosive]

Personally I'm not that big on the McDermott pick, but I hope I am proven wrong. I'm not big on anything else that was pick after McDermott anyways. I just hope he is as good as GarPax think he is and that they hit on this pick. If not, oh well. Not every GM hits on picks.

The Bulls overpaid Hinrich and were forced to trade away their 2010 pick to convince another team to take him, then they struck out on all the top free agents and again overpaid Carlos Boozer. 2010 draft was a failure so need to try and put lipstick on a pig.

Kirk Hinrich is right up there for most overrated and overpaid (5 yr $47.5M in 2006) players in the history of the franchise. He's a role player and every team other than the Bulls would be paying him a minimum salary. Being likable doesn't change the fact that he was a failure as a lottery pick.

 

[Axl Rose]

Pax really wanted Dwade....no way Donyell Marshall stopped him from trading up

 

[Diddy1122]

2003: Kirk Hinrich = Huge Failure (refused to trade Donyelle Marshall to move up for Dwayne Wade, and Kirk has always been a role player unworthy of #7 pick)

You can't be serious with this one. Riley was not giving up that pick for anything. He was hoping Bosh would fall to him but when that didn't he took Wade. He was not trading down to the 7th pick for Donyell Marshall. That's ridiculous. Also, Hinrich is anything but a failure. He had several very successful years before he caught a bad rash of injuries. The past two seasons would have been complete failures if not for him, and that's a fact.

2004: Ben Gordon/Luol Deng = Huge Success

That was a golden draft for Pax as he nabbed BG7, traded for Deng, and picked up Chris Duhon in the 2nd round. That coupled with the signing of Scott Skiles the year before completely transformed the franchise, changing the culture and success overnight.

2006: Tyrus Thomas/Viktor Khryapa = Huge Failure (Lamarcus Aldrige traded for a couple of busts)

Thomas was having scouts salivate with his incredible athleticism, long arms, and raw potential. The team was coming off a 47-win season and Pax rolled the dice on a project. I wanted Aldridge instead but the potential was there for Tyrus, he just never realized any of it unfortunately. Hit and miss on that one.

2007: Joakim Noah = Success

Oddly enough, this was lauded by many as a failure not too long ago. I remember almost everyone wanted Spencer Hawes or the Chinese guy that doesn't even play in the NBA anymore. I wanted Noah because I knew this guy was a "winner" despite his goofy exterior. This was their best draft pick imho.

2008: Derrick Rose = Huge Success

Yes it was a huge success.. thanks to the lottery balls. This pick was the definition of a no-brainer. It does crack me up remembering some of the Rose vs. Beasely arguments though

2009: J.Johsnon/Taj Gibson = Semi-Success

This is a tough one and I'd agree with the assessment. Once again I didn't hate the selection when it happened. Johnson had all the tools to be an Odom-Diaw type player, but never realized it due to lack of drive. Taj was an absolute home run at 28.

2010: Kevin Seraphin = Failure (traded #17 pick to make space for free agents they failed to sign)

So using said cap space to sign Boozer and the build the Bench Mob, to finish with the best record in the NBA, and make the Eastern Conference Finals, was a failure?? If that's the case, then every single year has been a total failure since 1998. So what's the point of grading GarPax when they're automatically deemed failures because they haven't brought in a title?

2011: Jimmy Butler = Success

Another late steal by GarPax that I feel will turn a corner this season.

2012: Marquis Teague = Failure (Teague is a bust)

He was the best available and the Bulls were in need of PG due to the uncertainty of Rose for the season. Similar to back in '03 when Hinrich was selected when it was apparent Derrick Williams would never fully recover from his bike accident

2013: Tony Snell = TBD

If the summer league is any indication, this kid could surprise us this year. He has a sweet looking jumper and showed a TON more confidence in his play.

I would say that GarPax have had as many failures as successes so people should stop acting like they have been awesome in the draft. They have had some good picks, bad picks, good moves, and terrible moves. 2014 and McDermott should be the final straw if he fails to live up to expectations and this team doesn't make it to the finals.

Overall 521-406 (56.2% Win Pct.) the past 11 years, 10 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, & the first Eastern Conference Finals appearance in the post-Jordan era. That is how GarPax is, and should be judged. Drafts are a part of that but the other moves that they have made over the past decade have kept the team relevant for their entire time in the FO. They are not going to be fired if the #11 pick in the draft doesn't turn out to be the next Larry Bird. Or if the team fails to make the Finals. They've earned just a bit more respect than that.

 

[Axl Rose]

2010: Kevin Seraphin = Failure (traded #17 pick to make space for free agents they failed to sign)

yet you're in here criticizing them for not making the moves so they would have max available come free agency

same coulda happened again they could have traded Taj for nothing and Melo re-signs with NY anyway....they were waiting on a commitment before making any moves