Garza isn't as bad as you think

[cubsneedmiracle]

Cubs can has contend 2012?

If Cubs can't has contend 2012, Red Sox can has Garza.

(lolcat kick)

At the rate were going that's what needs to happen..

Were gonna have a bunch of higher end position players ready to come up in a few years.. Then I'm sure we'll be in the market for pitchers to complete the team.

 

[Rice Cube]

I can't talk in lolcat anymore, it's making my brain hurt.

I wouldn't mind seeing what kinds of offers are speculated on MLBTR if they dangle Garza. They don't have to really trade him, just do some dangling. See what bites.

 

[FirstTimer]

If Cubs can't has contend 2012, Red Sox can has Garza.

(lolcat kick)

We can't.

Red Sox have some arms to deal and some position guys. You could most likely ship the Sawx Garza, sneak Vitters into the deal and end up getting back a higher end pitching prospect, and Kalish or a couple B levelish position players.

 

[dabynsky]

We can't.

Red Sox have some arms to deal and some position guys. You could most likely ship the Sawx Garza, sneak Vitters into the deal and end up getting back a higher end pitching prospect, and Kalish or a couple B levelish position players.

Unforunately most of their high end arms are at high A or lower. There isn't a Casey Kelly type left in that system, which we wouldn't get for a Garza probably, but I don't know if I want a bunch of arms that are 2 or more years away. I wouldn't mind buying low on Lars Anderson in a deal though.

 

[dabynsky]

I can't talk in lolcat anymore, it's making my brain hurt.

I wouldn't mind seeing what kinds of offers are speculated on MLBTR if they dangle Garza. They don't have to really trade him, just do some dangling. See what bites.

Speaking of MLBTR, seems they've been reading what I was speculating a few weeks back:
Trade Candidate: Carlos Pena: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Of the 16 current contenders, few are in need of first base help, which should reduce the demand for Pena. The eight AL contenders generally don't need designated hitters, so that route probably would not help Cubs GM Jim Hendry.

The Pirates and Diamondbacks strike me as two teams that would benefit from renting the Pena. The D'Backs would might prefer to turn to Brandon Allen or Paul Goldschmidt at first, leaving the Pirates as the lone suitor if they wish to improve upon Lyle Overbay. The Bucs make for an interesting match, as typically it's been the Cubs swiping useful players from them. I also like the fit because the Pirates could avoid giving up any useful young players for Pena, instead offering to relieve the Cubs of most of the slugger's remaining $6.6MM.

 

[FirstTimer]

Unforunately most of their high end arms are at high A or lower. There isn't a Casey Kelly type left in that system, which we wouldn't get for a Garza probably, but I don't know if I want a bunch of arms that are 2 or more years away. I wouldn't mind buying low on Lars Anderson in a deal though.

Not really a big deal to me because the way I see it the main rush of the Cubs prospects that will come up and make a difference are 2+ years away anyways. Some guys will start breaking in over the next year or so(B-Jackson, etc) But the main flood are still down in A and AA anyways. If we get some arms that are 2-4 years away that should work out nicely with what the Cubs already have in the system.

Speaking of MLBTR, seems they've been reading what I was speculating a few weeks back:
Trade Candidate: Carlos Pena: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

What does Pittsburgh have in the system?

 

[dabynsky]

Not really a big deal to me because the way I see it the main rush of the Cubs prospects that will come up and make a difference are 2+ years away anyways. Some guys will start breaking in over the next year or so(B-Jackson, etc) But the main flood are still down in A and AA anyways. If we get some arms that are 2-4 years away that should work out nicely with what the Cubs already have in the system.

I can understand that position, but I guess it is just a philosophical difference. I worry too much about pitchers health to want the centerpiece of a deal to be an arm that is more than 2 years away. As we've seen this year a lot can happen to pitchers with the top guys we had dealing with various injury issues. I don't know enough about the Red Sox system to know what to think of the big name guys, but the stats that I've seen for the few of the top 10 guys I've checked (Drake Britton, Anothny Ranaudo and Stormy Pimetel (sp?)) aren't that impressive this year.

 

[dabynsky]

What does Pittsburgh have in the system?

Didn't see this part when I first replied. Again not of ton big name guys as far as I can tell. One name that was interesting to me is Brad Lincoln. He was a former top 100 prospect, and is still relatively young. He is struggling in AAA*, but I wouldn't mind getting a guy like that for Pena.

*He must have straightened himself out a bit because his numbers are actually pretty solid now with a 3.91 ERA and 5 K/BB ratio. He is 26 years old and repeating AAA so perhaps we could still get him.

 

[FirstTimer]

I can understand that position, but I guess it is just a philosophical difference. I worry too much about pitchers health to want the centerpiece of a deal to be an arm that is more than 2 years away. As we've seen this year a lot can happen to pitchers with the top guys we had dealing with various injury issues. I don't know enough about the Red Sox system to know what to think of the big name guys, but the stats that I've seen for the few of the top 10 guys I've checked (Drake Britton, Anothny Ranaudo and Stormy Pimetel (sp?)) aren't that impressive this year.

I guess I'd make the center piece of the deal be a guy like Kalish even though he's coming back from an injury. How desperate are the Red Sox for Garza? I doubt desperate enough to give up Iglesias in a deal.

Drake Britton I like a lot. Stormy I'm not sold on but honestly I like the Red Sox arms in the minors a lot more than the Cubs. I'm not a big McNutt supporter(hardy har har) at all. Preferably I'd like to the Cubs get position players for Garza. I'm a bigger believer in stock piling position player prospects and buying proven pitching than I am taking risks on minor league arms. What works out nicely for the Cubs, who are already deep in OF prospects, is that they could get some nice IF prospects from the Sox who have some nice pieces available there.

 

[Rice Cube]

I guess I'd make the center piece of the deal be a guy like Kalish even though he's coming back from an injury. How desperate are the Red Sox for Garza? I doubt desperate enough to give up Iglesias in a deal.

Drake Britton I like a lot. Stormy I'm not sold on but honestly I like the Red Sox arms in the minors a lot more than the Cubs. I'm not a big McNutt supporter(hardy har har) at all. Preferably I'd like to the Cubs get position players for Garza. I'm a bigger believer in stock piling position player prospects and buying proven pitching than I am taking risks on minor league arms. What works out nicely for the Cubs, who are already deep in OF prospects, is that they could get some nice IF prospects from the Sox who have some nice pieces available there.

I did like how this year's draft was more position-player heavy than they'd been apt to do in previous years. Now if only they'd sign the draftees...but there's still time.

 

[Jntg4]

Garza for Hak-Ju Lee straight up.

 

[Rice Cube]

Garza for Hak-Ju Lee straight up.

No takee-backsies.

 

[dabynsky]

I did like how this year's draft was more position-player heavy than they'd been apt to do in previous years. Now if only they'd sign the draftees...but there's still time.

There has been a definite switch in the Cubs philosophy compared to when MacPhail was president. The Cubs were stockpiling arms to the exclusion of hitters. I don't mind drafts being heavy in pitching because of the numbers involved in the draft and international scouting. You do need to develop effective relievers through your system because relief pitching has to be the biggest market inefficient. The plan worked to some extent because the Cubs were able to develop dominant pitching and cobble together enough of an offense to make the playoffs three times the past decade.

That said I remember reading an interesting interview with Tim Wilken were he talked about the fact the Cubs were pitching first and that it was changing a bit with him as scouting director. The thing that I really liked about this draft and the international signings this year is the shift in focus on type of position prospects. Wilken is known to favor middle infielders because they can be shifted to other positions. It has lead to the glut of middle infield prospects that we have right now (perhaps had might be more accurate given the loss of Hak-ju Lee in the offseason) and the lack of power. This draft and the big international signings have a bunch of guys that have legitimate power.

 

[The Bandit]

Bump

 

[Uman85]

Garza is looking like a solid #2 for next year. Depending on free agency, he could be the Cubs' #1. Hopefully that's not the case and at least 1 Type A FA pitcher is signed to take the #1 role in the rotation.

 

[Mr. Cub]

I think Garza has showed enough this year he could be a solid #1 guy. Especially in the second half of the season. He had a low ERA and the blowpen lost most of his good starts and he had a complete game loss 1-0. If he gets some run support and some love from the blowpen this dude could easily win almost 20 games for us.

 

[Uman85]

I think Garza has showed enough this year he could be a solid #1 guy. Especially in the second half of the season. He had a low ERA and the blowpen lost most of his good starts and he had a complete game loss 1-0. If he gets some run support and some love from the blowpen this dude could easily win almost 20 games for us.

He could, but to get another solid arm in free agency and have Garza as your #2, that's a pretty lethal top of the rotation.

 

[Mr. Cub]

He could, but to get another solid arm in free agency and have Garza as your #2, that's a pretty lethal top of the rotation.

That is true. But who can we even get that would be that guy? I don't see CJ Wilson being that guy. He didn't perform so well in these playoffs.

 

[Uman85]

That is true. But who can we even get that would be that guy? I don't see CJ Wilson being that guy. He didn't perform so well in these playoffs.

Right now, the pickings are slim, but a few big names could be available. Just have to wait and see right now.

 

[Mr. Cub]

Right now, the pickings are slim, but a few big names could be available. Just have to wait and see right now.

Waiting sucks. Ha But hopefully we will get someone good. I think we could be a playoff team if we had more reliable pitching and just a few other tweaks here and there.