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The hell is Perez a prospect? He is 27 years old.
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You guys see what Texas offered?
•MLB.com's Peter Gammons says the Rangers thought they'd be able to acquire Robinson Chirinos from the Cubs, then package him with Derek Holland, Engel Beltre, and Frank Francisco to get Matt Garza from the Rays. Texas would have kicked in some money to offset Francisco's salary
Looks like Chrinos important part of deal.
•MLB.com's Peter Gammons says the Rangers thought they'd be able to acquire Robinson Chirinos from the Cubs, then package him with Derek Holland, Engel Beltre, and Frank Francisco to get Matt Garza from the Rays. Texas would have kicked in some money to offset Francisco's salary
Looks like Chrinos important part of deal.
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Here's my analysis from the trade:
Rays' perespetive: (arrivals)
RHP Chris Archer: Archer was a nice piece for them. I think he will come up as a RP and maybe move to SP. But the Rays have so many SP. I think he will be on the Rays sometime in 2011 as a RP, and with good success, he could be the Rays closer of the future. He has nice pitches but does not have great command. That's really the only down-side of Archer and that has to be worked on.
SS Hak-Ju Lee: Lee will be a good SS in the future, and maybe even an all-start but that's way down the road. He's only 21 years old or will be soon and could make the team next year sometime, all depends on his stats in the minors. I think he will be the Rays SS in the next couple years, paired with Tim Beckham. Lee to SS, Beckham to 2B. That's won't be too bad, from the names. But remember minors is different that the majors.
C Robinson Chirnios: I think he will be a major league back-up for the Rays. He has good all around mechanics, but mostly average. He's not a bad defender with a good arm. He also will show OK offensive numbers. The 27 converted catcher will be on the Rays sometime in '11.
OF Brandon Guyer: I think the Rays could have a good OF of the future, with Upton in CF, Jennings in LF and Guyer in RF. Guyer is a pretty good defender and will put up nice offensive numbers. But he's not ready for the majors in my opinion. He also has speed. I think he will also be a nice addition for the future,
OF Sam Fuld: I think Sam Fuld has a good chance to make the team as a 4th OF because he does have some speed and is a really good defender. He will be hit and miss on offense as one game he will get 4 hits when the next day he will starikout in all of bats. It's really not a bad thrown in that the Rays got.
Where do I see the player in 2011:
RHP Chris Archer: I think with a good ST he could make the bullpen. but if not he will start in AAA in 2011 and be called up mid-season as a RP.
SS Hak-Ju Lee: I expect him to start in AA and with a good mid-season maybe AAA but unlikely in my opinion.
C Robinson Chirinos: I expect him to be on the Rays out of ST as the back-up. But with a chance to be the starter. If not, AAA for sure with mid-season call-up.
OF Brandon Guyer: I think he'll start in AA, moved up to AAA and maybe a Sep. call-up. With injuries, called up in mid-season. 2012 he will make majors.
OF Same Fuld: I said 4th OF and I'm sticking to my word. If not, AAA and will be called up some time in '11.
Rays' perspective: (departures)
RHP Matt Garza: The Rays have tons of SP and the lost of Garza really does not help and they did not want to give him the 6M he will probably make in arbitration. He's only 27 but since they won't contend, why not give it to the younger kids...that's another point Garza really doesn't mean anything.
OF Fernando Perez: He was once a good prospect in the Rays system but with injuries the past 2 seasons he was really useless. Also, Sam Fuld will take his pot on the 40 man roster or Brandon Guyer. I think this was just a throw in for the Rays:
LHP Zachary Rosscup: He could have a good career but he has only played in low levels in the minors. So this one we will never know. But he wasn't even in the Rays top 30 prospects. That also shows how good their farm syatem is. Archer will take his spot and I think will be better, as of right now yes because of more expierence in the minors.
Now with '11: The Rays won't contend, with the losses of CC, Pena, Soriano, Bartlett, 2RP and now Garza. They also save money as they are cutting payroll. The Rays will contend in the next few years or so and will go back to how they contended in the past seasons. REBUILDING!! The Rays have always had a top 3 farm system and they are now #2. Look out down the future!
Cubs' perspective: (arrivals)
RHP Matt Garza: He will help the Cubs no matter what people say. He's also still under control for 3 more years before he hits FA. The Cubs are more in win-now mode after trading 4 of their top 20 prospects. I think Garza will win anywhere between 15-20 and a era around 3.50. That's not too bad and with money coming off the books after the 2011 season. FA could be big then. I think the Cubs will be right there in the end for 2011 but in 2012, look out. I also think Garza could be here for a long time unless they do not contend in the next few years and he is traded.
OF Fernando Perez: He was old my JH he has a shot to make the Cubs out of ST, but as the 4th OF. So Kosuke will likely be gone. Perez has speed and not a bad defender. If he stays healthy, he could help out. He was once a top spect in the Rays organization but injuries slowed him down. He said he's completely healthy and expects to get back to old form. I think Rudy can and will help him. Only time will tell...
LHP Zachary Rosscup: He's too low in the minors to see what he could do and see if he will help at the major league level. The best part he's a lefty and the Cubs really need that in their minors. I just hope he turns out good and maybe he will be a Archer kind of situation. No one to something. The bad news is he wasn't even in the Rays top 30 spects but remember the Rays system is strong. So this is really a TBD...
Where do I see the players in 2011:
RHP Matt Garza: Will make the Cubs, not even a question, lol. He will be a starter anywhere from 1-3. It will all depend.
OF Fernando Perez: Will have a shot to make the team out of ST, but that's only if Kosuke is traded and he has a OK ST. I just hope he's healthy and Rudy helps. If not, will be in AAA and take Fuld's spot on the roster.
LHP Zachary Rosscup: He will probably start in Daytona or AA, it all depends on how they set the rosters. Because AA did lose 2 players. Also being a lefty will help starting on a higher level.
Cubs perspective: (departures)
RHP Chris Archer: I think he will be a good pitcher is it's a RP or SP. I think his command will come with more practice but the good part is the Cubs have ton of SP. So the lost really isn't too bad. Players that could make an impact for the Cubs soon are, McNutt, JJ, Carptner and later could be Simpson, etc. I hate losing Archer but the Cubs have enough SP, so they should be find.
SS Hak-Ju Lee: This is probably my worse lost in the deal, I had fun following him in the minors but I'll change my mind to other players. I think he would have been a good SS in the future for the Cubs, with Castro moving to 2B. But at least the Cubs have ton of IF in their minors. Players such as LeManiu (or whatever), Lake, Smith, Gonzalez, Thomas etc. The list goes on and on. So if you really think about it, this might not even be a really big lost.
C Robinson Chirnios: This is not a big lost either as he's already 27 and blocked by Soto to be the starting C. Also, Hill is for some reason ahead of him and I think Castillo is too. So I don't think he would ever had impact with the Cubs.
OF Brandon Guyer: From on paper this would look like a big lost but if you really look deeper it's not. The Cubs have Soiano until 2014 (with a kinda untradeable contract), Byrd until 2012 (likely trade canidate), Kosuke is a FA after season (I think will eventually be traded) and Colvin for years probably. Then they have Jackson who's expected to be called up during the 2011 season and more names who could be rising (Reggie Golden).
OF Sam Fuld: This was probably a throw win and this hurts the Cubs in absolutely no way as he has not spot on the team. But I will miss his web gems in the OF. But really who cares...
Now with 11': JH wants the Cubs to compete again and ths move could help them for 2010 nd the future. I think the Cubs will compete for the division if everboday stays healthy. But JH did hurt the farm system. How much? That all depends on how they produce. But JH did trade positions the Cubs have enough of and that's helps a lot. At first glance it looked like the Cubs lost but after second thought it makes sense for both teams and is probably a fair trade.
I think the Cubs will compete in 2010 with a a good bullpen, a good starting roatation and not a bad lineup if all the Cubs can hitters can do what they have.
Thoughts? This is my analysis from both teams perspectives.
Rays' perespetive: (arrivals)
RHP Chris Archer: Archer was a nice piece for them. I think he will come up as a RP and maybe move to SP. But the Rays have so many SP. I think he will be on the Rays sometime in 2011 as a RP, and with good success, he could be the Rays closer of the future. He has nice pitches but does not have great command. That's really the only down-side of Archer and that has to be worked on.
SS Hak-Ju Lee: Lee will be a good SS in the future, and maybe even an all-start but that's way down the road. He's only 21 years old or will be soon and could make the team next year sometime, all depends on his stats in the minors. I think he will be the Rays SS in the next couple years, paired with Tim Beckham. Lee to SS, Beckham to 2B. That's won't be too bad, from the names. But remember minors is different that the majors.
C Robinson Chirnios: I think he will be a major league back-up for the Rays. He has good all around mechanics, but mostly average. He's not a bad defender with a good arm. He also will show OK offensive numbers. The 27 converted catcher will be on the Rays sometime in '11.
OF Brandon Guyer: I think the Rays could have a good OF of the future, with Upton in CF, Jennings in LF and Guyer in RF. Guyer is a pretty good defender and will put up nice offensive numbers. But he's not ready for the majors in my opinion. He also has speed. I think he will also be a nice addition for the future,
OF Sam Fuld: I think Sam Fuld has a good chance to make the team as a 4th OF because he does have some speed and is a really good defender. He will be hit and miss on offense as one game he will get 4 hits when the next day he will starikout in all of bats. It's really not a bad thrown in that the Rays got.
Where do I see the player in 2011:
RHP Chris Archer: I think with a good ST he could make the bullpen. but if not he will start in AAA in 2011 and be called up mid-season as a RP.
SS Hak-Ju Lee: I expect him to start in AA and with a good mid-season maybe AAA but unlikely in my opinion.
C Robinson Chirinos: I expect him to be on the Rays out of ST as the back-up. But with a chance to be the starter. If not, AAA for sure with mid-season call-up.
OF Brandon Guyer: I think he'll start in AA, moved up to AAA and maybe a Sep. call-up. With injuries, called up in mid-season. 2012 he will make majors.
OF Same Fuld: I said 4th OF and I'm sticking to my word. If not, AAA and will be called up some time in '11.
Rays' perspective: (departures)
RHP Matt Garza: The Rays have tons of SP and the lost of Garza really does not help and they did not want to give him the 6M he will probably make in arbitration. He's only 27 but since they won't contend, why not give it to the younger kids...that's another point Garza really doesn't mean anything.
OF Fernando Perez: He was once a good prospect in the Rays system but with injuries the past 2 seasons he was really useless. Also, Sam Fuld will take his pot on the 40 man roster or Brandon Guyer. I think this was just a throw in for the Rays:
LHP Zachary Rosscup: He could have a good career but he has only played in low levels in the minors. So this one we will never know. But he wasn't even in the Rays top 30 prospects. That also shows how good their farm syatem is. Archer will take his spot and I think will be better, as of right now yes because of more expierence in the minors.
Now with '11: The Rays won't contend, with the losses of CC, Pena, Soriano, Bartlett, 2RP and now Garza. They also save money as they are cutting payroll. The Rays will contend in the next few years or so and will go back to how they contended in the past seasons. REBUILDING!! The Rays have always had a top 3 farm system and they are now #2. Look out down the future!
Cubs' perspective: (arrivals)
RHP Matt Garza: He will help the Cubs no matter what people say. He's also still under control for 3 more years before he hits FA. The Cubs are more in win-now mode after trading 4 of their top 20 prospects. I think Garza will win anywhere between 15-20 and a era around 3.50. That's not too bad and with money coming off the books after the 2011 season. FA could be big then. I think the Cubs will be right there in the end for 2011 but in 2012, look out. I also think Garza could be here for a long time unless they do not contend in the next few years and he is traded.
OF Fernando Perez: He was old my JH he has a shot to make the Cubs out of ST, but as the 4th OF. So Kosuke will likely be gone. Perez has speed and not a bad defender. If he stays healthy, he could help out. He was once a top spect in the Rays organization but injuries slowed him down. He said he's completely healthy and expects to get back to old form. I think Rudy can and will help him. Only time will tell...
LHP Zachary Rosscup: He's too low in the minors to see what he could do and see if he will help at the major league level. The best part he's a lefty and the Cubs really need that in their minors. I just hope he turns out good and maybe he will be a Archer kind of situation. No one to something. The bad news is he wasn't even in the Rays top 30 spects but remember the Rays system is strong. So this is really a TBD...
Where do I see the players in 2011:
RHP Matt Garza: Will make the Cubs, not even a question, lol. He will be a starter anywhere from 1-3. It will all depend.
OF Fernando Perez: Will have a shot to make the team out of ST, but that's only if Kosuke is traded and he has a OK ST. I just hope he's healthy and Rudy helps. If not, will be in AAA and take Fuld's spot on the roster.
LHP Zachary Rosscup: He will probably start in Daytona or AA, it all depends on how they set the rosters. Because AA did lose 2 players. Also being a lefty will help starting on a higher level.
Cubs perspective: (departures)
RHP Chris Archer: I think he will be a good pitcher is it's a RP or SP. I think his command will come with more practice but the good part is the Cubs have ton of SP. So the lost really isn't too bad. Players that could make an impact for the Cubs soon are, McNutt, JJ, Carptner and later could be Simpson, etc. I hate losing Archer but the Cubs have enough SP, so they should be find.
SS Hak-Ju Lee: This is probably my worse lost in the deal, I had fun following him in the minors but I'll change my mind to other players. I think he would have been a good SS in the future for the Cubs, with Castro moving to 2B. But at least the Cubs have ton of IF in their minors. Players such as LeManiu (or whatever), Lake, Smith, Gonzalez, Thomas etc. The list goes on and on. So if you really think about it, this might not even be a really big lost.
C Robinson Chirnios: This is not a big lost either as he's already 27 and blocked by Soto to be the starting C. Also, Hill is for some reason ahead of him and I think Castillo is too. So I don't think he would ever had impact with the Cubs.
OF Brandon Guyer: From on paper this would look like a big lost but if you really look deeper it's not. The Cubs have Soiano until 2014 (with a kinda untradeable contract), Byrd until 2012 (likely trade canidate), Kosuke is a FA after season (I think will eventually be traded) and Colvin for years probably. Then they have Jackson who's expected to be called up during the 2011 season and more names who could be rising (Reggie Golden).
OF Sam Fuld: This was probably a throw win and this hurts the Cubs in absolutely no way as he has not spot on the team. But I will miss his web gems in the OF. But really who cares...
Now with 11': JH wants the Cubs to compete again and ths move could help them for 2010 nd the future. I think the Cubs will compete for the division if everboday stays healthy. But JH did hurt the farm system. How much? That all depends on how they produce. But JH did trade positions the Cubs have enough of and that's helps a lot. At first glance it looked like the Cubs lost but after second thought it makes sense for both teams and is probably a fair trade.
I think the Cubs will compete in 2010 with a a good bullpen, a good starting roatation and not a bad lineup if all the Cubs can hitters can do what they have.
Thoughts? This is my analysis from both teams perspectives.
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I think he still is because he doesn't have enough of at-bats in the majors. Injuries set him back. But really he isn't.
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MLB.com called him a prospect.
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MLB.com=fail, they also run MLS website
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He still technically is a prospect.
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like the article waldo.....before anyone else says it, yes some grammar mistakes...get over it...
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ya atleast it's readable and thoughtful though
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I hope you aren't talking about my tips I gave waldo. It was a few weeks ago so probably not but I was just trying to give my input as a J grad.
Anyway, back on topic.
First thing I consider is the fact that you MUST give to receive. To think we were going to just give TB a bag of balls for a proven pitcher is just crazy.
At first I was pretty ticked we gave up that much for Garza, but after some thought I actually like it.
I live in Knoxville TN so I've seen many of these guys in person at Smokies Park.
I think Archer is a good spec but Im stoked McNutt wasn't involved. He's got some good stuff.
From the first time to the last time I saw Guyer play he improved unbelievably but what were we going to do with him? I always figured he would be moved at some point.
Never saw Lee but kind of expected him to be moved as well since Castro has pretty much taken the future tag.
IMO Chorinos and Fuld..... Meh.... Not concerned about losing them.
I like the deal. Not so much at first but im digging it now.
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As a new cubs fan, I'm excited that they are making intelligent moves to make the team better a peice at a time. Instead of just piling up big names that are over the hill.
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My favorite teams
Cubs are better no doubt. But I still don't think they match the Reds, Cards or Brewers.
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imo they will be battling with the reds for the 3rd spot. if there are fans that think that this cubs team is a contender is delusional. this is a move for the future, 2012 and beyond, not 2011.
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I think its pretty close all around. No one really sticks out to me as the obvious division favorite.
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cmon addison, you are a better poster than that. no more beer and whiskey.
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:lmao: you're probably right hahaha but really who sticks out as the clear cut obvious favorite?
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Friends aren't supposed to let friends post drunk... Where the **** is ivy when i need the support?!
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il take a team with greinke,gallardo,marcum, wolf with hart,fielder, and braun
il take a team with carpenter,wainwright,garcia,pujols,holliday,berkman,rasmus
over a zambrano,garza,dempster, soriano,pena,ramirez
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My favorite teams
In no particular order:
Cardinals are not the team they were, but certainly still a solid club.
Reds are a young team, a team that is the defending division champions, and will only get better.
Brewers have a solid rotation, bullpen and a good-enough offense.
Cubs have a good rotation, but an aging core and not the team they were in 2008.
I'm not saying the Cubs have 0% chance, far from it, but even with Garza I think the competition will be greater than what the Cubs can offer barring injuries to everyone else and/or career years from a few Cubs players.
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