GDT - Blackhawks @ Islanders - 6:30 cst

[hawkinmontreal]

Dach does a lot of things right for a young player. His puck protection in the attack zone is strong also, as he's learned to use his body well. The guy has been getting A+ chances all year. The only thing that's missing is his finishing ability and face-offs. He back-checks really well and is smart in all zones.

People evidently like to shit on the guy and I get the frustration at times, but I would not give up on him yet. I would also not trade him yet.

Is it wrong to expect more from a player who was drafted 3rd overall. When you see guys like Zegras and Byram(before his injury) playing lights out hockey, it’s not not wrong to expect the same. We are talking about a player who is suppose to be more Rick Nash, Joe Thornton than a third line fringe player. He has the size, strength and dexterity to punish the opposition and be on the goal sheet every night, take the puck and drive the net, get in those areas where guys like Kane and the Cat get punished because of there size. Is it his fault partly, is it coaching partly, is it his wrist partly as well, the Hawks need this kid to be a third overall pick not another third liner or possible second liner.

 

[Granada]

Is it wrong to expect more from a player who was drafted 3rd overall. When you see guys like Zegras and Byram(before his injury) playing lights out hockey, it’s not not wrong to expect the same. We are talking about a player who is suppose to be more Rick Nash, Joe Thornton than a third line fringe player. He has the size, strength and dexterity to punish the opposition and be on the goal sheet every night, take the puck and drive the net, get in those areas where guys like Kane and the Cat get punished because of there size. Is it his fault partly, is it coaching partly, is it his wrist partly as well, the Hawks need this kid to be a third overall pick not another third liner or possible second liner.

I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I do think we're spoiled as fans. We all expect any young guy to come in and essentially be Toews and Kane right out of the gate. I'm not saying you're like this personally, just generally speaking. I was hoping Dach would be lights-out by now, but that year he missed when he hurt his wrist really fucked up his development, like you mentioned. It's fine if people were expecting more from him by now, but I think it's important to see the silver linings as well, which sometimes get too easily lost when a fanbase is frustrated with a particular player. As I said before, for a guy who is still very, very young, I think he's more solid than any other player his age in all three zones and defensively. That's why I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him just yet.

 

[LordKOTL]

I mentioned this in another topic, This is on the Hawks organization and there lack of developing talent. It’s a reoccurring theme for this team and has been for a while. Dach, Joker, Hartman, even Boqvis, Mitchell and Beaudin just to name a few. The teams draft picks for the last 10 years have amounted to nothing, hence why we still hold on to players like Toews, because the Hawks have no other choice.

Not just developing talent, but also having a reasonable expectation of what the latent talent they have is developing towards.

In Dach's draft we could have had Byram, let him develop for a couple of season and would have been much stronger on the backend. Instead the Accountant-in-chief thought that <snickers> we were set up just fine in the backend with Joker, Boqvist, Beaudin, and Mitchell. Instead he got Dach, and rushed him needlessly. It's like he completely spaced on the fact that all of those defensemen could all not pan out anywhere near expected in the near or mid-term leaving us dead-in-the-water in terms of defensive prospects.

And we did win on one: Debrincat, but he's more like the exception that proves the rule. Everyone else looks like bottom-pairing or bottom-6.

Dach does a lot of things right for a young player. His puck protection in the attack zone is strong also, as he's learned to use his body well. The guy has been getting A+ chances all year. The only thing that's missing is his finishing ability and face-offs. He back-checks really well and is smart in all zones.

People evidently like to shit on the guy and I get the frustration at times, but I would not give up on him yet. I would also not trade him yet.

He is doing the "intangibles" right, but he's also not developing where he heeds to be. His scoring is down since last year, his FO% is down since last year, he seems to be deferring too much and on the attack he's not thinking on his feet enough.

The onus should 100% be on him right now to improve those areas. He's at the age where he should be developing his game as the primary focus. He should be tasked with learning how to finish and tasked with being more selfish and not consistently deferring. i.e. he should be working with Cat & Kane in practice at this point to improve his shooting skills. He should be working with Toews on faceoffs, and if the 'hawks have a break looking up Yannic Perrault.

No one should be traded at this point unless they are de facto pointless waste. We don't have a "permanent" GM or a "permanent" coach. Doing so would be stupid, and Dach definitely is not "pointless waste." He's not Connolly. He's just looking less like a #1C in development and looking more like a Marcus Kruger-type in development. We should be trying to arrest that trend and get him on track as much as possible.

Thankfully, the H&RBlock Reject is no longer in charge of things.

 

[Granada]

He is doing the "intangibles" right, but he's also not developing where he heeds to be. His scoring is down since last year, his FO% is down since last year, he seems to be deferring too much and on the attack he's not thinking on his feet enough.

The onus should 100% be on him right now to improve those areas. He's at the age where he should be developing his game as the primary focus. He should be tasked with learning how to finish and tasked with being more selfish and not consistently deferring. i.e. he should be working with Cat & Kane in practice at this point to improve his shooting skills. He should be working with Toews on faceoffs, and if the 'hawks have a break looking up Yannic Perrault.

No one should be traded at this point unless they are de facto pointless waste. We don't have a "permanent" GM or a "permanent" coach. Doing so would be stupid, and Dach definitely is not "pointless waste." He's not Connolly. He's just looking less like a #1C in development and looking more like a Marcus Kruger-type in development. We should be trying to arrest that trend and get him on track as much as possible.

Thankfully, the H&RBlock Reject is no longer in charge of things.

Eh, not so sure about this. I mean, those "intangibles" are a huge part of a player's development; and again, he's solid and improving in those areas for a young player. I also think it's no coincidence that the team, as a whole, isn't where it needs to be offensively. The fact that Dach isn't producing as much is no coincidence, the entire team isn't producing right now, with the exception of Kane, Cat, and Jones.

Even if we had a permanent GM and/or coach, I would not trade Dach yet.

 

[WELL USED PUCK]

That might have been the worst 5 min period of 3 on 3 ever played......

Just a fun, evening skate.

 

[LordKOTL]

Eh, not so sure about this. I mean, those "intangibles" are a huge part of a player's development; and again, he's solid and improving in those areas for a young player. I also think it's no coincidence that the team, as a whole, isn't where it needs to be offensively. The fact that Dach isn't producing as much is no coincidence, the entire team isn't producing right now, with the exception of Kane, Cat, and Jones.

Even if we had a permanent GM and/or coach, I would not trade Dach yet.

Let me rephrase:

I wouldn't trade Dach with a real GM either, but his task has to be turning his numbers around for the rest of the year--not even large gain, just a trend in the up direction as opposed to the down direction it is now. If his game away from the puck is good, but his game with the puck isn't, then that's what he should be focused on improving now.

P.S. You forgot Hagel as someone who is producing.

 

[KBIB]

Hell, I’d trade Dach for the right offer.

There’s so much that he does that’s elite, but the stuff he doesn’t do matters a hell of a lot more.

I’m really starting to think Colonton did a number on the kids mentally. Mitchell, Dach, Beaudin, they were highly touted draft picks.
Mitchell came into the league as an NHL ready defenseman, scratch that, the most NHL ready defenseman on the team. Was actually very good while paired with DK, then the wheels fell off. Beaudin last year had moments where he looked great, then the wheels fell off. Then remember the shit he pulled on Joker and something just doesn’t seem right.

Starting Dach on the fourth line, and instead of working him up a line at a time completely placed him on a line that this team is dependent upon for results just wasn’t smart. King needs to just tell him “hey, we’re dropping you down to the third line so you start having fun again and no worries I’ll give you Hagel “ and be done with it. The more I watch Dach, the more I see the shit he does right. The fucking pounding he takes every game. He needs to get off a top line and get his game back. Hell, I really don’t mind him with Toews.

Still trade him for Byram, tho

 

[Raskolnikov]

Is it wrong to expect more from a player who was drafted 3rd overall. When you see guys like Zegras and Byram(before his injury) playing lights out hockey, it’s not not wrong to expect the same. We are talking about a player who is suppose to be more Rick Nash, Joe Thornton than a third line fringe player. He has the size, strength and dexterity to punish the opposition and be on the goal sheet every night, take the puck and drive the net, get in those areas where guys like Kane and the Cat get punished because of there size. Is it his fault partly, is it coaching partly, is it his wrist partly as well, the Hawks need this kid to be a third overall pick not another third liner or possible second liner.

I think the more damning thing was the internal scouting that even made you consider passing on the layup of Byrum.

Mitchell, Boqvist, Beudin, Joker....

These guys had to bolster the D significantly to even consider trying to justify looking at the upside of the 3 6'4" centers available.

 

[Granada]

Let me rephrase:

I wouldn't trade Dach with a real GM either, but his task has to be turning his numbers around for the rest of the year--not even large gain, just a trend in the up direction as opposed to the down direction it is now. If his game away from the puck is good, but his game with the puck isn't, then that's what he should be focused on improving now.

P.S. You forgot Hagel as someone who is producing.

Not if it means sacrificing his play away from the puck and in all 3 zones. His goal right now, should be finding a balance, but not at the expense of putting himself out of position, etc. The team is playing so much better defensively right now, and Dach has a lot to do with that.

 

[Savard18]

That might have been the worst 5 min period of 3 on 3 ever played..

I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I do think we're spoiled as fans. We all expect any young guy to come in and essentially be Toews and Kane right out of the gate. I'm not saying you're like this personally, just generally speaking. I was hoping Dach would be lights-out by now, but that year he missed when he hurt his wrist really fucked up his development, like you mentioned. It's fine if people were expecting more from him by now, but I think it's important to see the silver linings as well, which sometimes get too easily lost when a fanbase is frustrated with a particular player. As I said before, for a guy who is still very, very young, I think he's more solid than any other player his age in all three zones and defensively. That's why I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him just yet.

Totally agree with Granada, You guys are expecting Dach to be amazing. It's his 3rd yr and a major injury that hindered him. Someone mentioned Nash and Thornton ? not fair comparisons both were #1 picks overall and expected to (unfairly) produce once out of junior. The media and internet is to blame too much on expectations the past 20yrs. Guys are labelled (can't miss or franchise builders) at 16yrs -18yrs old. media scrutiny unbelieveable at such a young age, you guys forget their still kids playing against men, still growing, learning and adjusting to life of being a pro athlete. Heck the CAT was not drafted in jr then ends up being a 2nd round pick and looks like a steal for being drafted in that round. Helps when you linemate is all world passing you the puck, and you practice with him everyday. He ll (Dach) will figure it out and eventually be a strong player maybe not the star some of u want him to be but still a good piece.

 

[KBIB]

Totally agree with Granada, You guys are expecting Dach to be amazing. It's his 3rd yr and a major injury that hindered him. Someone mentioned Nash and Thornton ? not fair comparisons both were #1 picks overall and expected to (unfairly) produce once out of junior. The media and internet is to blame too much on expectations the past 20yrs. Guys are labelled (can't miss or franchise builders) at 16yrs -18yrs old. media scrutiny unbelieveable at such a young age, you guys forget their still kids playing against men, still growing, learning and adjusting to life of being a pro athlete. Heck the CAT was not drafted in jr then ends up being a 2nd round pick and looks like a steal for being drafted in that round. Helps when you linemate is all world passing you the puck, and you practice with him everyday. He ll (Dach) will figure it out and eventually be a strong player maybe not the star some of u want him to be but still a good piece.

He’s been in the league three years. I don’t buy any of that shit “he’s young”. It’s an excuse. The heavy shit about his injury dont flush

Zegras has been excellent. So has Byram. So has Seider. Right there are two young top pairing guys. Cozens is great on a shit team too.

If you want to say he wasn’t developed correctly ok. He shouldn’t have been rushed to the NHL and one more season dominating kids would have done him a lot. The kid was mismanaged early on and that falls on Blowman and Colonton.

Kappo is just starting to hit his stride, and Laff hasn’t become the player all the draft gurus thought he would. All the other players outside of Hughes who always seems to be injured were kept in juniors and allowed to develop.

Im sorry Hawks fans, Dach, out of all the talent in that draft in the lottery, was the worst choice. You don’t draft potential 20 goal a year guys third overall and instead of expecting the players we was compared to expect the reality he’s closer to being Anisimov then the kid on the Jets or Gretzlaf. He has zero offensive talent outside of finding the open guy or Kane, which is Gus level gifted.

 

[Granada]

Totally agree with Granada, You guys are expecting Dach to be amazing. It's his 3rd yr and a major injury that hindered him. Someone mentioned Nash and Thornton ? not fair comparisons both were #1 picks overall and expected to (unfairly) produce once out of junior. The media and internet is to blame too much on expectations the past 20yrs. Guys are labelled (can't miss or franchise builders) at 16yrs -18yrs old. media scrutiny unbelieveable at such a young age, you guys forget their still kids playing against men, still growing, learning and adjusting to life of being a pro athlete. Heck the CAT was not drafted in jr then ends up being a 2nd round pick and looks like a steal for being drafted in that round. Helps when you linemate is all world passing you the puck, and you practice with him everyday. He ll (Dach) will figure it out and eventually be a strong player maybe not the star some of u want him to be but still a good piece.

This is a great point. The media loves to overhype drafts, they pretty much have to, in order to draw interest. They do this with drafts and with certain prospects. I remember when Jimmy Vesey was supposed to be the next best thing before the Rangers signed him and when the Hawks were supposedly in on him, but anyways.

Anyone who was expecting Dach to be the next McDavid from Day 1 simply because he was a top-3 pick was always kidding themselves. He was even projected as not NHL ready. Top-six center was always his ceiling. Hindsight is always 20/20 but the fact of the matter is, the Hawks needed a center or a D-man, and it was between Dach, Byram, and Cozens at the 3 spot. Cozens is as unknown as Dach is right now; he has 14 points on a bad Buffalo team right now, whoop-di-do. Byram was more NHL ready at the time of the draft, so if you want to say the Hawks should have gone with him, okay, but they didn't. I hate Bowman as much as the next guy, but Dach was a very logical choice and a nice change compared to the other smaller prospects Bowman always chose before.

If Dach can become a 20-goal top-six center, I would be more than happy with that. Even if he ends up a 3LC, I'd be somewhat okay with that; as long as he can develop as a legit center and bolster the depth at the position.

 

[RacerX]

Wut? We are focusing on media expectations? Who gives a shit about media spin, bottom line is he hasn't produced like a #3 pick should. In a re-draft today, Dach would not sniff the lottery. No one is calling him a bust so let's not move the goalposts, it was a stupid pick by a shite GM, that's all.

Most of us casual fans were pining for Byram as the selection as far as I can recall, and obviously Stan the Lesser pulled a Jerry Angelo on this roster.

For the past 3 years I predicted this team could not compete until 2023 at the earliest, but now I fear they may not do so until El Gato approaches 30 years old.

 

[KBIB]

This is a great point. The media loves to overhype drafts, they pretty much have to, in order to draw interest. They do this with drafts and with certain prospects. I remember when Jimmy Vesey was supposed to be the next best thing before the Rangers signed him and when the Hawks were supposedly in on him, but anyways.

Anyone who was expecting Dach to be the next McDavid from Day 1 simply because he was a top-3 pick was always kidding themselves. He was even projected as not NHL ready. Top-six center was always his ceiling. Hindsight is always 20/20 but the fact of the matter is, the Hawks needed a center or a D-man, and it was between Dach, Byram, and Cozens at the 3 spot. Cozens is as unknown as Dach is right now; he has 14 points on a bad Buffalo team right now, whoop-di-do. Byram was more NHL ready at the time of the draft, so if you want to say the Hawks should have gone with him, okay, but they didn't. I hate Bowman as much as the next guy, but Dach was a very logical choice and a nice change compared to the other smaller prospects Bowman always chose before.

If Dach can become a 20-goal top-six center, I would be more than happy with that. Even if he ends up a 3LC, I'd be somewhat okay with that; as long as he can develop as a legit center and bolster the depth at the position.

Um… have you watched Cozens?

The kid has created a second line by himself. 14 points on a piss poor team while averaging 4 minutes less a game then Dach, who was gifted Kane and Cat, is a hell of an accomplishment.

Dach is a lot better along the boards then Cozens, but that’s it.

 

[KBIB]

Wut? We are focusing on media expectations? Who gives a shit about media spin, bottom line is he hasn't produced like a #3 pick should. In a re-draft today, Dach would not sniff the lottery. No one is calling him a bust so let's not move the goalposts, it was a stupid pick by a shite GM, that's all.

Most of us casual fans were pining for Byram as the selection as far as I can recall, and obviously Stan the Lesser pulled a Jerry Angelo on this roster.

For the past 3 years I predicted this team could not compete until 2023 at the earliest, but now I fear they may not do so until El Gato approaches 30 years old.

That depends.

If Blowman is in the lottery or not.

Were people defending Barker when Tallon christened him the second coming of Potvin? ( he really did say that)

Right now, I’m looking at results. Byram and Seider are first pairing guys. If anybody thinks a 20 goal scoring center inept in the o zone is better then a top pairing defenseman, then that person needs an intervention and a face time session with a bunny eared Ariana Grande telling them life is better if you smile. Dach has had three fucking years to adapt, and right now he isn’t any better then his first year. And this is the kicker- you can’t blame his line mates.

If GM’s call asking about him, you have to listen.

 

[LordKOTL]

Not if it means sacrificing his play away from the puck and in all 3 zones. His goal right now, should be finding a balance, but not at the expense of putting himself out of position, etc. The team is playing so much better defensively right now, and Dach has a lot to do with that.

That should have been a given. We don't want him giving up on what he is at this point, but he should be focusing on the lacks of his game for his continued development.

 

[KBIB]

I think the more damning thing was the internal scouting that even made you consider passing on the layup of Byrum.

Mitchell, Boqvist, Beudin, Joker....

These guys had to bolster the D significantly to even consider trying to justify looking at the upside of the 3 6'4" centers available.

You think?

Kelly has the aura of “smartest guy in the room” and I’m just not buying the snake oil any more.

Cat was a no brainer. He never should have fell because of his size. He was fighting guys a foot taller then him in juniors and never backed down. That’s more a league wide face palm then Kelly being some astute judge of talent when Cat was playing with McDavid and produced at the same clip without him.

Saad was another no brainer. He was the Aaron Rodgers of that draft as everyone had him penciled in as a first rounder. I don’t remember but there might have been something about him wanting to go to college and that’s why he dropped. I do know there was a reason.

Tuevo was another guy who shouldn’t have fell.

I give him Shaw and Hagel. That’s pretty much all the impact players he’s drafted and I’m not bringing up the guys they traded

 

[RacerX]

That depends.

If Blowman is in the lottery or not.

Were people defending Barker when Tallon christened him the second coming of Potvin? ( he really did say that)

Right now, I’m looking at results. Byram and Seider are first pairing guys. If anybody thinks a 20 goal scoring center inept in the o zone is better then a top pairing defenseman, then that person needs an intervention and a face time session with a bunny eared Ariana Grande telling them life is better if you smile. Dach has had three fucking years to adapt, and right now he isn’t any better then his first year. And this is the kicker- you can’t blame his line mates.

If GM’s call asking about him, you have to listen.

IDK, Dach's trade value is not great for now, even if he doesn't develop too much more he should still be a valuable second-tier player for a competitive roster. I would hold for now.

The bigger problem is we have so little overall draft capital and under-valued contracts, so the GM's ability to nuke and reset this steaming pile of a roster is extremely limited and it will take years to accomplish.

 

[Granada]

Um… have you watched Cozens?

The kid has created a second line by himself. 14 points on a piss poor team while averaging 4 minutes less a game then Dach, who was gifted Kane and Cat, is a hell of an accomplishment.

Dach is a lot better along the boards then Cozens, but that’s it.

If that's enough for you to essentially declare he would have been a better pick than Dach, that's you. It isn't for me. It's too early to say for either player.

Board play was a main priority for the Hawks to improve upon, dating back to that draft and then some.

 

[Granada]

That should have been a given. We don't want him giving up on what he is at this point, but he should be focusing on the lacks of his game for his continued development.

It's a given to say he needs to improve offensively as well.