GDT: Home opener Isles @ 'hawks

[hawkinmontreal]

We have to see this through Stan's viewpoint.

The 'hawks have dropped their opening four, and embarrassed themselves in the home opener. Someone during the game said something to the effect of there being a lot of seats available, and what with COVID making some people reticent to go to games (especially for a team in the cellar right now), Stan has to balance himself being the smartest guy in the room (as is his won't), with keeping the Wirtz's happy by getting butts in the seats and buying their alcohol.

Whatever the root cause is, the team is simply not executing under JC. The more the 'hawks lose, the less the 'hawks make in ticket revenue. The less the ticket revenue the more eyes get cast on Stan as the architect of the product on the ice. The acquisitions in the offseason were his, and his choice of coach was JC.

I think he cuts ties with JC soon to try to save his skin with the hopes that a better coach can right the ship enough for him to try his horse-trading act on the brass and convince them that any failures this season were JC's fault even though his acquisitions mortgaged a portion of the future.

The reality is that I don't think the lineup is as-good as a lot of people hoped on paper Like you said there are still holes. I think with a top-tier coach that gets all of the players to buy into a system they all can perform they might be as good as a WCF exit with luck. A average NHL coach I'm thinking one-and-done in the playoffs. I think that would be enough to can Stan, but on the other hand a playoff berth might be enough to save his skin.

Either way I think there's maybe 6 more games before JC goes. I agree with a lot of fans all over that Stan will have at least through the Olympic break, but after that he should come under major scrutiny--whether an interim guy like Crawford or a real permanent season head coach is brought in. We should be expecting better results. The team on paper IMHO is anywhere between a #2WC and a 3rd in the central. Right now were bottom-3 in the league. I think Stan, even though he's not a hockey mind, is smart enough to know what side his bread is buttered on and knows he needs to right the ship ASAFP to save his own hide.

There is zero chance the team is capable of making the playoff. Stan was was banking on Toews coming back and lighting it up like it was 2010, he was banking on Kaner playing like he is 20 with no lingering health issues, he was banking on Seth Jones being Nik Lidstrom and the Cat being Connor McDavid.
Lord, I want to throw this in, I dont think Stan does know what side of the bread is buttered, if he did, the GM would of stayed the course on the rebuild instead of flushing that plan down the toilet to once again get embarrassed on a poor strategy that spending another dumptruck full of money would get him know where.

 

[hawkinmontreal]

Colliton knows what guys he wants in the lineup for his amazing system. There is no room for compitent D men like Joker so they had to trade him. Talented forwards under 25 years old who can probably score around 20+ goals 50ish points are not welcome either.

What 25 year olds in the system are capable of that, I dont think Chicago has those types of prospects, poor drafting for the last 10 years has put the Hawks where they are. It’s not that they are not welcome, it’s the reality those players don’t exist in the Hawks pipeline.

 

[LordKOTL]

There is zero chance the team is capable of making the playoff. Stan was was banking on Toews coming back and lighting it up like it was 2010, he was banking on Kaner playing like he is 20 with no lingering health issues, he was banking on Seth Jones being Nik Lidstrom and the Cat being Connor McDavid.
Lord, I want to throw this in, I dont think Stan does know what side of the bread is buttered, if he did, the GM would of stayed the course on the rebuild instead of flushing that plan down the toilet to once again get embarrassed on a poor strategy that spending another dumptruck full of money would get him know where.

I think that the lineup as-assembled, with a decent enough system that the players can/want to execute can make the playoffs. If you stuck Q behind the bench I'm fairly certain we could secure the #2WC spot simply because there is an actual system behind everything. Plus, and I know this is tinfoil hat thinking, I'm partially wondering if the players aren't playing down just to try to get JC fired. Not overt, but sticking to his "system" 100 and not thinking on their feet. I got this niggling feeling that if/when JC is let go, we'll see a decent uptick in the player's play...unless the players are trying to get rid of Stan, too (I can dream, can't I?)

As for Stan; we're in agreement that he's not a hockey mind, but I don't think he's stupid. He comes off more like you're typical business executive where he puts his own career interests over building the team long-term. He'll go for it if it suits HIS needs, and he'll claim rebuilding when it suits his needs. Since the Wirtz's are executives, too, they're susceptible to eat all of that up. The result is a team mired in mediocrity until he's let go.

 

[hawkinmontreal]

I think that the lineup as-assembled, with a decent enough system that the players can/want to execute can make the playoffs. If you stuck Q behind the bench I'm fairly certain we could secure the #2WC spot simply because there is an actual system behind everything. Plus, and I know this is tinfoil hat thinking, I'm partially wondering if the players aren't playing down just to try to get JC fired. Not overt, but sticking to his "system" 100 and not thinking on their feet. I got this niggling feeling that if/when JC is let go, we'll see a decent uptick in the player's play...unless the players are trying to get rid of Stan, too (I can dream, can't I?)

As for Stan; we're in agreement that he's not a hockey mind, but I don't think he's stupid. He comes off more like you're typical business executive where he puts his own career interests over building the team long-term. He'll go for it if it suits HIS needs, and he'll claim rebuilding when it suits his needs. Since the Wirtz's are executives, too, they're susceptible to eat all of that up. The result is a team mired in mediocrity until he's let go.

A lineup consisting of a captain who has not played in a year, Kane who is obviously dealing with health issues, the Cat, who I was expecting to have a huge year, Dach who just can’t seem to put it together, Kubalik who is more cold than hot, a third and forth line line that seem rather non existent and let’s not talk about the albatross we have on the backend. Murphy and DeHaan are fucking useless, Jones and Mcabe can’t play the entire game, and Gust, let’s not talk about that. MAF is having seeing problems can’t stop shit, and a coach who is dumb as a bag of nails. I called this after game one versus the Avs, but was told to chill it’s only one game, 4 games same shit. Not even Q would have the answers right now.
You mentioned mediocrity, they don’t even have that, the team is an embarrassment right now. 4 games in. Even if they slam Vancouver 10-0 next game it still doesn’t change anything. I was expecting better a lot better, the team has zero bite, no tenacity, no fight in them, they look lost out there, zero emotion, overall just a bunch of players looking to cash in there paycheck.

 

[DaHawkz24]

What 25 year olds in the system are capable of that, I dont think Chicago has those types of prospects, poor drafting for the last 10 years has put the Hawks where they are. It’s not that they are not welcome, it’s the reality those players don’t exist in the Hawks pipeline.

Obviously you don't agree, but Strome is 24 years old. He had 20 goals 37 assists in 2019, but has been in the press box consistently since with Colliton.
He still had 12 goals in 58 games in 2020 and 9 goals in 40 games last season.

 

[hawkinmontreal]

Obviously you don't agree, but Strome is 24 years old. He had 20 goals 37 assists in 2019, but has been in the press box consistently since with Colliton.
He still had 12 goals in 58 games in 2020 and 9 goals in 40 games last season.

Honestly, after I responded, I realized that’s exactly who you were talking about. I do agree with you actually, Strome deserves better and like the Joker he has been put in JCs doghouse, however I read today the Hawks declined a trade for him from Ottawa so maybe this is an opening for the kid to try and regain some confidence and get back on board and contribute to the team, if and I say If this dumbfuck of a coach gives him the opportunity to succeed.

 

[DaHawkz24]

Honestly, after I responded, I realized that’s exactly who you were talking about. I do agree with you actually, Strome deserves better and like the Joker he has been put in JCs doghouse, however I read today the Hawks declined a trade for him from Ottawa so maybe this is an opening for the kid to try and regain some confidence and get back on board and contribute to the team, if and I say If this dumbfuck of a coach gives him the opportunity to succeed.

If he gets in the lineup Strome will get 10 min with Khaira, and Carp.

The most rediculous part is that there is so much focus on Strome from us and the media when pretty much everyone was ok with a sign/trade or just letting him go. Another guy who would be nice to have is Suter, but he has 0 points with Detroit so far.

 

[blackpep72]

Another train wreck. They should have hired Trotz when he was available. JC is well past his expiration date.

And he is only 12 years old.

 

[Tater]

A lineup consisting of a captain who has not played in a year, Kane who is obviously dealing with health issues, the Cat, who I was expecting to have a huge year, Dach who just can’t seem to put it together, Kubalik who is more cold than hot, a third and forth line line that seem rather non existent and let’s not talk about the albatross we have on the backend. Murphy and DeHaan are fucking useless, Jones and Mcabe can’t play the entire game, and Gust, let’s not talk about that. MAF is having seeing problems can’t stop shit, and a coach who is dumb as a bag of nails. I called this after game one versus the Avs, but was told to chill it’s only one game, 4 games same shit. Not even Q would have the answers right now.
You mentioned mediocrity, they don’t even have that, the team is an embarrassment right now. 4 games in. Even if they slam Vancouver 10-0 next game it still doesn’t change anything. I was expecting better a lot better, the team has zero bite, no tenacity, no fight in them, they look lost out there, zero emotion, overall just a bunch of players looking to cash in there paycheck.

Don't sugarcoat it, tell us how you really feel. Let it out man.

 

[Granada]

A lineup consisting of a captain who has not played in a year, Kane who is obviously dealing with health issues, the Cat, who I was expecting to have a huge year, Dach who just can’t seem to put it together, Kubalik who is more cold than hot, a third and forth line line that seem rather non existent and let’s not talk about the albatross we have on the backend. Murphy and DeHaan are fucking useless, Jones and Mcabe can’t play the entire game, and Gust, let’s not talk about that. MAF is having seeing problems can’t stop shit, and a coach who is dumb as a bag of nails. I called this after game one versus the Avs, but was told to chill it’s only one game, 4 games same shit. Not even Q would have the answers right now.
You mentioned mediocrity, they don’t even have that, the team is an embarrassment right now. 4 games in. Even if they slam Vancouver 10-0 next game it still doesn’t change anything. I was expecting better a lot better, the team has zero bite, no tenacity, no fight in them, they look lost out there, zero emotion, overall just a bunch of players looking to cash in there paycheck.

I can agree with some of this but disagree with other things. Such as, I still think basing anything on one game -- in any sport -- is misguided. If I recall correctly, some people did the same thing during the preseason and said "this is the year," "this team looks like the real deal," etc. Now it's the opposite.

I also disagree on Dach. To me, the guy has been the best player on the team -- that isn't saying much, but still. He's generating a ton of chances and granted, doesn't and has never had top-flight speed, but is one of the few Hawks who doesn't look like he's skating in molasses out there. The dude is at least trying, unlike Kane right now, who is utterly invisible.

 

[KBIB]

I have to agree on Murphy being shit.

Ive defended the guy and for about half a year a couple years ago he was looking like he was putting it together, but seriously the guy is a 6D at best right now. I cringe every time I see him go into the corner for a retrieval only to watch him get beat physically, fall down, or look like a lunkhead when the play moves past him and he skates off near the crease on the other side of where the puck is. If anybody could benefit (and honestly, I’m checking my pulse and calling a mental help line for typing this) from playing with CDH, it would be him only because when CDH isn’t cosplaying a watered down sack of shit thrown on the ice he can outlet pass and make a decent one at a Blackhawks respectable 10% of the time.

Honestly, I think the Hawks have given up and have stopped listening. I think the things being said by players about Colonton are gaslighting thru the media as a play on how great Colonton is with communication. I think you saw them play Colontons system against NY and the players themselves showed Blowman it isn’t gonna work in 2021 playing Mike Keenan dump and chase hockey.

Seriously, I was waiting for Jocelyn Lemieux and Greg Gilbert to come over the fucking boards and Stu Grimson to have a meltdown.

 

[Granada]

I have to agree on Murphy being shit.

Ive defended the guy and for about half a year a couple years ago he was looking like he was putting it together, but seriously the guy is a 6D at best right now. I cringe every time I see him go into the corner for a retrieval only to watch him get beat physically, fall down, or look like a lunkhead when the play moves past him and he skates off near the crease on the other side of where the puck is. If anybody could benefit (and honestly, I’m checking my pulse and calling a mental help line for typing this) from playing with CDH, it would be him only because when CDH isn’t cosplaying a watered down sack of shit thrown on the ice he can outlet pass and make a decent one at a Blackhawks respectable 10% of the time.

Honestly, I think the Hawks have given up and have stopped listening. I think the things being said by players about Colonton are gaslighting thru the media as a play on how great Colonton is with communication. I think you saw them play Colontons system against NY and the players themselves showed Blowman it isn’t gonna work in 2021 playing Mike Keenan dump and chase hockey.

Seriously, I was waiting for Jocelyn Lemieux and Greg Gilbert to come over the fucking boards and Stu Grimson to have a meltdown.

Yeah, all our D-men are playing like hot garbage right now. I though McCabe and Jones would drastically help, but right now, they're just adding to the problem. It's just hard to believe: these new guys can't be this bad, even in a new or even subpar system. The mistakes they're making as a whole D-wise aren't necessarily system-based -- turnovers, bad pinches, puck-watching, missed assignments, etc.

It kind of seems like Jones is improving slightly each game, so I guess that's encouraging, but he's a microcosm of what ails this team as a whole. You can blame the system all you want, and you wouldn't be wrong, but a lot of it right now is that players aren't playing to their expectations. Toews, Kane, Jones, Fleury, Kubalik, Debrincat, they're all underperforming on an individual basis. Toews has an excuse, yes -- that's what's going to happen when you take an entire year off of hockey -- but right now, he's nothing more than a 3rd line center on the top line. I hate saying that -- I have always been far from a Toews hater -- but it's true.

On top of that, Kane is playing like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. I'm trying to remember if there was an injury he had in the preseason or before that he said wasn't an issue, but if he did have one, he's certainly playing like he's hurt or like something is going on physically.

 

[KBIB]

Yeah, all our D-men are playing like hot garbage right now. I though McCabe and Jones would drastically help, but right now, they're just adding to the problem. It's just hard to believe: these new guys can't be this bad, even in a new or even subpar system. The mistakes they're making as a whole D-wise aren't necessarily system-based -- turnovers, bad pinches, puck-watching, missed assignments, etc.

It kind of seems like Jones is improving slightly each game, so I guess that's encouraging, but he's a microcosm of what ails this team as a whole. You can blame the system all you want, and you wouldn't be wrong, but a lot of it right now is that players aren't playing to their expectations. Toews, Kane, Jones, Fleury, Kubalik, Debrincat, they're all underperforming on an individual basis. Toews has an excuse, yes -- that's what's going to happen when you take an entire year off of hockey -- but right now, he's nothing more than a 3rd line center on the top line. I hate saying that -- I have always been far from a Toews hater -- but it's true.

On top of that, Kane is playing like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. I'm trying to remember if there was an injury he had in the preseason or before that he said wasn't an issue, but if he did have one, he's certainly playing like he's hurt or like something is going on physically.

I just think I’m so used to seeing the Hawks play possession that this shit system they are trying to incorporate looks like something from the dark ages.

This is a team built around possession type players. If Blowman is that determined to keep Colonton, then he has to trade away Kane, Kubi, CDH, etc, players who are having a hard time adapting.

I love me some Kubalik, but he’s not a guy who can chase pucks down, neither is Kane, CDH just needs to go into a horses stable, take his clothes off, and lay on the ground. He’d fit right in.

 

[Granada]

I just think I’m so used to seeing the Hawks play possession that this shit system they are trying to incorporate looks like something from the dark ages.

This is a team built around possession type players. If Blowman is that determined to keep Colonton, then he has to trade away Kane, Kubi, CDH, etc, players who are having a hard time adapting.

I love me some Kubalik, but he’s not a guy who can chase pucks down, neither is Kane, CDH just needs to go into a horses stable, take his clothes off, and lay on the ground. He’d fit right in.

I agree, but then again, there is room for guys like Kane and Kubalik. The problem is, the Hawks have no one who does that around them. This team can't dump and chase -- they just can't, and when you're struggling offensively and when teams just clog up the neutral zone, that's a recipe for disaster.

Also, how about Wahlstrom last game? Anyone else want him over Boqvist in the 2018 draft? He'd look real good in a Hawks sweater right now. Another Stan fail that could end up monumental. I just hope Dach can redeem him, because that's another one that may haunt him in the future (Byram) and add to his growing list of failures.

 

[KBIB]

I agree, but then again, there is room for guys like Kane and Kubalik. The problem is, the Hawks have no one who does that around them. This team can't dump and chase -- they just can't, and when you're struggling offensively and when teams just clog up the neutral zone, that's a recipe for disaster.

Also, how about Wahlstrom last game? Anyone else want him over Boqvist in the 2018 draft? He'd look real good in a Hawks sweater right now. Another Stan fail that could end up monumental. I just hope Dach can redeem him, because that's another one that may haunt him in the future (Byram) and add to his growing list of failures.

If I remember correctly I wanted Dobson that draft with Wahlstrom the second choice.

Id would have took either one over Bustvist who’s playing third pair right now

 

[MassHavoc]

Can we all just agree it's @Tater fault for not making a GDT and move on?

 

[Tater]

Can we all just agree it's @Tater fault for not making a GDT and move on?

If they lose tonight, I'll make the next one.

 

[DaHawkz24]

Yeah, all our D-men are playing like hot garbage right now. I though McCabe and Jones would drastically help, but right now, they're just adding to the problem. It's just hard to believe: these new guys can't be this bad, even in a new or even subpar system. The mistakes they're making as a whole D-wise aren't necessarily system-based -- turnovers, bad pinches, puck-watching, missed assignments, etc.

It kind of seems like Jones is improving slightly each game, so I guess that's encouraging, but he's a microcosm of what ails this team as a whole. You can blame the system all you want, and you wouldn't be wrong, but a lot of it right now is that players aren't playing to their expectations. Toews, Kane, Jones, Fleury, Kubalik, Debrincat, they're all underperforming on an individual basis. Toews has an excuse, yes -- that's what's going to happen when you take an entire year off of hockey -- but right now, he's nothing more than a 3rd line center on the top line. I hate saying that -- I have always been far from a Toews hater -- but it's true.

On top of that, Kane is playing like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. I'm trying to remember if there was an injury he had in the preseason or before that he said wasn't an issue, but if he did have one, he's certainly playing like he's hurt or like something is going on physically.

I know Keith was on the downside of his career, but he came out and said that Collitons system has too many requirements that cause the players to think too much about where they need to be and when.
He was saying hockey can't be played that way, and that the players need to be able to read and react.
With so many new players in this year it's no wonder why they look exactly like they are trying to figure out what they are supposed to do in almost every situation.

 

[MassHavoc]

If they lose tonight, I'll make the next one.

That makes me conflicted on who you are rooting for.

 

[Tater]

That makes me conflicted on who you are rooting for.

I'm rooting for a new coach.