Greatest team ever/Greatest bulls team ever

[97Bulls]

i dont think dirk shot great in these finals IIRC

and low 40s is meh but it isnt abysmal

kobe overall plays pretty well in the finals(he may not shoot terribly well( kobe is not a notably great shooter overall) but he has the ability to carry his team offensively and defensively

he has led the lakers to two championships as the leader

but i do think he is a bit overrated

he is borderline first tier imo

Dirk didn't set the world on fire this past finals either. And if what I hear and read about him continues, I'm gonna have to rank him in the overrated category too. I also feel dwayne wade is overrated. And I kknow this is taboo since wade is from chitown.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Anybody who knows me knows that I have bad feelings towards Kobe Bryant. But the reason Phil Jackson was so critical of Kobe was because it was Shaq's team. Kobe was working hard to become a great player while Shaq already was. And Phil knew Shaq's work ethic was pedestrian while Kobe's was incredible. Therefore he sided with Shaq on everything.

In the 2004 Finals, Kobe took a lot of low-percentage shots but made a bunch of them. Shaq was busting his ass on defense and the boards and on offense. He was playing 45+ minutes per-game and taking a ton of shots. To claim that Kobe hijacked that series, and that was the reason that they lost, is completely false.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Anybody who knows me knows that I have bad feelings towards Kobe Bryant. But the reason Phil Jackson was so critical of Kobe was because it was Shaq's team. Kobe was working hard to become a great player while Shaq already was. And Phil knew Shaq's work ethic was pedestrian while Kobe's was incredible. Therefore he sided with Shaq on everything.

In the 2004 Finals, Kobe took a lot of low-percentage shots but made a bunch of them. Shaq was busting his ass on defense and the boards and on offense. He was playing 45+ minutes per-game and taking a ton of shots. To claim that Kobe hijacked that series, and that was the reason that they lost, is completely false.

i feel that is just a low percentage shooter because of the style he plays

but considering how dominant he was in his prime..overall ability...defense

leading two teams to championships as the leader(yes he had good teams..but he WAS the franchise player...not the sidekick)

i think he is atleast borderline

to say he is barely in the 2nd tier of players means you have to have some better guys than barkley in the 2nd tier

 

[houheffna]

I think a poster on here said it best when they said there's different levels of franchise players. Jordan, Magic, Jabaar, Russell, Duncan, Wilt, and Olajuwan are 1st level types.

Players like Malone, Barkley, Robinson, Bryant, are in the second tier. Id put pippen in this level. Obviously this is only based on what I saw from his two seasons as the man. I see no reason he couldn't be a magic johnson type player that distributed the ball and picked his spots. Or why he could do what kobe has done with the best talent in the league. There's no reason to believe that giiven 4 years and the best team, that he wouldn't get an mvp and a dpoy.

I am not putting Pippen with guys like Malone, Robinson, and Barkley...absolutely not. He would be a third tier guy...like Jason Kidd. Saying that Pippen could do what Magic Johnson did...is inconsistent with you saying that he wasn't on Magic's level earlier in the statement. Pippen is not capable of doing what Magic did...

As far as Kobe goes...Kobe was the franchise player for 2 titles I guess...but he was the closer for five. He is on the top tier in my opinion.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Kobe should only have 4 rings. Stole one in 2002

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And Kobe may be a low-percentage shooter when faced with great defenses but there is not many people on this planet who can make difficult shots as consistently as Kobe. 20% shots turn into 40% shots.

 

[houheffna]

Kobe should only have 4 rings. Stole one in 2002

What happened in 2002 isn't new, and has happened many times before...including with the Bulls. Can't take Kobe's away unless you are willing to take away some others...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

What happened in 2002 isn't new, and has happened many times before...including with the Bulls. Can't take Kobe's away unless you are willing to take away some others...

That series was the worst of them all.

 

[97Bulls]

I am not putting Pippen with guys like Malone, Robinson, and Barkley...absolutely not. He would be a third tier guy...like Jason Kidd. Saying that Pippen could do what Magic Johnson did...is inconsistent with you saying that he wasn't on Magic's level earlier in the statement. Pippen is not capable of doing what Magic did...

As far as Kobe goes...Kobe was the franchise player for 2 titles I guess...but he was the closer for five. He is on the top tier in my opinion.

I feel he could do what magic did in the sense that he filled the stat sheet like magic. I can't rank him top 10 cuz he doesn't have any mvps or dpoys. I feel he was capable but it just the luck of the draw.

And when you say pippen isn't capable, what do you mean? In what way?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I feel he could do what magic did in the sense that he filled the stat sheet like magic. I can't rank him top 10 cuz he doesn't have any mvps or dpoys. I feel he was capable but it just the luck of the draw.

And when you say pippen isn't capable, what do you mean? In what way?

Kobe does have an MVP- not that it really matters. Rose was MVP this season and he is not even a top 5 player in the league.

Pippen can't score at will and make plays like Jordan, Magic, Bird, and some of the other greats in the league. That's what I assume he means.

 

[97Bulls]

i feel that is just a low percentage shooter because of the style he plays

but considering how dominant he was in his prime..overall ability...defense

leading two teams to championships as the leader(yes he had good teams..but he WAS the franchise player...not the sidekick)

i think he is atleast borderline

to say he is barely in the 2nd tier of players means you have to have some better guys than barkley in the 2nd tier

He had the best team. They were a good team before pau gasol joined them. On a bad team, he'd have minimal impact at best. A good team can cover his deficiencies.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

He had the best team. They were a good team before pau gasol joined them. On a bad team, he'd have minimal impact at best. A good team can cover his deficiencies.

What are these deficiencies Kobe Bryant has? The guy has the capability of making literally any shot against any defense like only guys of Jordan's caliber have done.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And before Pau Gasol joined that team, Kobe Bryant had one of the weaker supporting casts in the league.

 

[97Bulls]

Kobe does have an MVP- not that it really matters. Rose was MVP this season and he is not even a top 5 player in the league.

Pippen can't score at will and make plays like Jordan, Magic, Bird, and some of the other greats in the league. That's what I assume he means.

Wtf dude? Magic couldnt score at will. Did he have a lot of high scoring games? That's your problem bro.... your too infatuated with scoring

Magic won games with his passing. He could score, but he was a 20 ppg scorer in a stat inflated era.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

*Thank-whore post* (I'd create a new thread but that would be annoying)

Anybody who knows Kobe Bryant > Scottie Pippen thank this post.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Wtf dude? Magic couldnt score at will. Did he have a lot of high scoring games? That's your problem bro.... your too infatuated with scoring

Magic won games with his passing. He could score, but he was a 20 ppg scorer in a stat inflated era.

I'm infatuated with players who create havoc against opposing defenses with their ability to change the game. Whether that is a player who can defend the rim, rebound, see the floor and pass exceptionally well, and score at will.

Magic was a better scorer than Pippen who could pass and rebound much better as well. He was also as versatile a defender nearly as Pip.

Are you really saying that you think Scottie is near the level of Kobe or Magic? If so... I feel bad for you.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The first thing I said when Pau Gasol joined the Lakers was 'damn it, the Lakers are going to win the championship.' And it gave me no pleasure because I really hated that team with a passion back then.

The season before, I believe they finished in the seventh spot and Kobe Bryant was demanding a trade and was furious at Jerry Buss. And Bryant was undeniably better than the players leading their respected teams to championship contention at the time.

 

[nwfisch]

Is Pippen better than Kobe?

 

[97Bulls]

What are these deficiencies Kobe Bryant has? The guy has the capability of making literally any shot against any defense like only guys of Jordan's caliber have done.

He takes too many bad shots mainly. Does he make some? Sure. But I've seen him far too often shoot the lakrs out of games. Thank god for the rule changes cuz without them, he'd be a career 43% fg shooter.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

He takes too many bad shots mainly. Does he make some? Sure. But I've seen him far too often shoot the lakrs out of games. Thank god for the rule changes cuz without them, he'd be a career 43% fg shooter.

43% would not be that bad at all for a SG. The guy is a career 45-46% shooter at does it as a high volume scorer who gets to the FT line 8-9 times per-game. That is something Pippen could never dream of.

If Pippen had the same offensive role as Bryant did, he would not even shoot 40% from the field and would average far less points.