Hawks Lineup 2013

[sth]

You guys are gonna have to help me. I didn't follow the Hogs at all this year. But I liked what I saw from Jimmy Hayes last year. Has he had an off year on the farm? I wouldn't mind getting Ben Smith up there. And paint me in the minority but I don't mind Frolik.

 

[Ton]

If the Blackhawks don't make a move on defense within the next two weeks, I'm going to be completely confused by what they are trying to accomplish.



Keith, Hjalmarsson, Oduya, Leddy all shoot left. Seabrook, Rozsival, Brookbank, Olsen, and Montador all shoot right. IMO, the only top-four right-handed defenseman is Seabrook... So will they pair two left-handed guys on the 2nd pairing? Who is going to get dealt? If I had to pick two, it would have to be Oduya and Montador.



Keith/Seabrook

Hjalmarsson/Rozsival

Leddy/Brookbank



I just don't see that as a legitimate top defensive unit. I would prefer they acquire a top-four right-handed defenseman to play with Hjalmarsson, then drop Rozsival to the 3rd unit with Leddy or let him duke it out with Brookbank for a roster spot... but that's not going to happen.



Clusterfuck... but it's not a good clusterfuck... anyone else agree here or am I crazy? The good news is, Rozsival and Brookbank should be better than O'Donnell and Lepisto but that isn't saying much.



Stan didn't really fix anything over the off-season. He made a few slight upgrades but he didn't fill the hole at the right d-slot on the 2nd pairing, and he didn't find a 2nd line center. I'm excited for this season but I'm afraid it's just going to be more of the same.



One thing I've learned about Stan is that he is just wayy to fucking passive. Go out there, stick your neck out... make a deal to fill a hole.



He's overturned the roster nearly every year since winning the Cup, but he hasn't caught very many improvements. That's a bad sign IMO. I've always been the type of person that has had faith in Stan, but if he fails again this season my patience will start to wear thin. Many like to blame Quenneville and he may take the blame and they will probably cut him loose if this team doesn't succeed this year, but IMO the axe should fall on Stan first.



This club is lucky Tallon left them a big enough gift to win the Cup. 20 years down the line it might look like Dale Tallon is the modern day Bill Torrey that the Oakland Seals fired due to a clash between him and the top... of course I don't think the Blackhawks will move but the success Torrey had after is evidence that he was 100% right.

 

[the canadian dream]

I just still dont understand why 2 blueliners need to go. You need the 7th man. You always do even if they are sitting in the booth. The AHL isn't always going to be the outlet for call ups incase of an injury to a roster player. You need the 7th guy travelling with the team and at the ready. All teams carry 7 roster blueliners so why are we suggesting that 2 need to be moved? Only 1 does and if they don't even move 1 is it really that huge of a deal where it will make or break the team?



Agree with not having a good secondary right shot though. Always been concerned with that since Campbell left. Never found the proper right shot to replace him. Don't care if that player is the exact same player Campbell was as that was never realistic anyways. But always needed and still need a better second pairing right shot. For that reason this team needs to keep Montador unless they can get another right hand shot in return. Gotta use what you got even though its not up to standards we all want. Rather have a right shot in Monty on the second pair than [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rozsival. Rozsival sucks Ton..cant see how on earth you can put him on the second pairing. That is no spot for him.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keith/Seabs[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Leddy/Monty-----I only put Leddy on second pairing because he is no 3rd pairing shut down blueliner. Monty is only there because we have no other right shot capable.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hammer - Brookbank - Oduya/Roszival[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LMAO..okay I see the mess now!!! 3 fucking left shots to choose from for the 3rd pairing and Roszival the only right shot?. What the **** was this team thinking!!! Jesus some trade fucking fell through on these guys at some point with Hammer..has to be the case. I agree now they need to clear this mess on the 3rd pairing..thank god its only the 3rd pairing though..not that the second pairing I suggested is very strong either..i just think its the best we have to work with as of right now. Trade actually would be nice.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A LOT OF PRESSURE ON CRAW AGAIN..and that is a different debate all together.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If the blueline roster stays the same then I guess you use 2 left shots on the 3rd pairing like we saw a few times last year? I would have to take Hammer and switch out Oduya and Brookbank when fit. I really dont like Roszival. Seabs is going to be a minutes man yet again it feels like.[/font]

 

[thanson1990]

I just still dont understand why 2 blueliners need to go. You need the 7th man. You always do even if they are sitting in the booth. The AHL isn't always going to be the outlet for call ups incase of an injury to a roster player. You need the 7th guy travelling with the team and at the ready. All teams carry 7 roster blueliners so why are we suggesting that 2 need to be moved? Only 1 does and if they don't even move 1 is it really that huge of a deal where it will make or break the team?



Agree with not having a good secondary right shot though. Always been concerned with that since Campbell left. Never found the proper right shot to replace him. Don't care if that player is the exact same player Campbell was as that was never realistic anyways. But always needed and still need a better second pairing right shot. For that reason this team needs to keep Montador unless they can get another right hand shot in return. Gotta use what you got even though its not up to standards we all want. Rather have a right shot in Monty on the second pair than [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rozsival. Rozsival sucks Ton..cant see how on earth you can put him on the second pairing. That is no spot for him.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keith/Seabs[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Leddy/Monty-----I only put Leddy on second pairing because he is no 3rd pairing shut down blueliner. Monty is only there because we have no other right shot capable.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hammer - Brookbank - Oduya/Roszival[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LMAO..okay I see the mess now!!! 3 fucking left shots to choose from for the 3rd pairing and Roszival the only right shot?. What the **** was this team thinking!!! Jesus some trade fucking fell through on these guys at some point with Hammer..has to be the case. I agree now they need to clear this mess on the 3rd pairing..thank god its only the 3rd pairing though..not that the second pairing I suggested is very strong either..i just think its the best we have to work with as of right now. Trade actually would be nice.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A LOT OF PRESSURE ON CRAW AGAIN..and that is a different debate all together.[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If the blueline roster stays the same then I guess you use 2 left shots on the 3rd pairing like we saw a few times last year? I would have to take Hammer and switch out Oduya and Brookbank when fit. I really dont like Roszival. Seabs is going to be a minutes man yet again it feels like.[/font]

With the season starting now, theyll need the 7th d more than ever. I think that we will see the extra players in the lineup are going to see more action than usual early on as guys round themselves back in to game shape. Plus, there may be a rise of bump and bruise type of injuries. The 7th d and 13th forward may be as valuable as ever this year.

 

[bookjones]

If the Blackhawks don't make a move on defense within the next two weeks, I'm going to be completely confused by what they are trying to accomplish.



Keith, Hjalmarsson, Oduya, Leddy all shoot left. Seabrook, Rozsival, Brookbank, Olsen, and Montador all shoot right. IMO, the only top-four right-handed defenseman is Seabrook... So will they pair two left-handed guys on the 2nd pairing? Who is going to get dealt? If I had to pick two, it would have to be Oduya and Montador.



Keith/Seabrook

Hjalmarsson/Rozsival

Leddy/Brookbank



I just don't see that as a legitimate top defensive unit. I would prefer they acquire a top-four right-handed defenseman to play with Hjalmarsson, then drop Rozsival to the 3rd unit with Leddy or let him duke it out with Brookbank for a roster spot... but that's not going to happen.



Clusterfuck... but it's not a good clusterfuck... anyone else agree here or am I crazy? The good news is, Rozsival and Brookbank should be better than O'Donnell and Lepisto but that isn't saying much.



Stan didn't really fix anything over the off-season. He made a few slight upgrades but he didn't fill the hole at the right d-slot on the 2nd pairing, and he didn't find a 2nd line center. I'm excited for this season but I'm afraid it's just going to be more of the same.



One thing I've learned about Stan is that he is just wayy to fucking passive. Go out there, stick your neck out... make a deal to fill a hole.



He's overturned the roster nearly every year since winning the Cup, but he hasn't caught very many improvements. That's a bad sign IMO. I've always been the type of person that has had faith in Stan, but if he fails again this season my patience will start to wear thin. Many like to blame Quenneville and he may take the blame and they will probably cut him loose if this team doesn't succeed this year, but IMO the axe should fall on Stan first.



This club is lucky Tallon left them a big enough gift to win the Cup. 20 years down the line it might look like Dale Tallon is the modern day Bill Torrey that the Oakland Seals fired due to a clash between him and the top... of course I don't think the Blackhawks will move but the success Torrey had after is evidence that he was 100% right.

Calm the **** down Ton! Stop freaking out man. Many teams this past offseason did little to nothing or just tweaked and did not lose their minds and pre-spend up to the hypothetical $70+ mil cap---they just wouldn't with the expiring CBA and likely lockout looming. I am personally thankful that in this case his being a numbers cruncher was to the Hawks benefit because as the season start sits on the horizon the Hawks are now fine on the salary cap front and I assume the amount is what Stan and a few other GMs living in the real world knew it was gonna come down to. Hell, the Hawks wouldn't have even been majorly fucked if the owners wish to get it down to $60 mil and a hard cap for this season had come to fruition--sure, they would have had to jettison $3 mil but that is nothing compared to how screwed some teams would have had to purge. Now the Hawks are sitting pretty financially. Maybe he will make you happy and blow some of that $6 mil cushion that the Hawks can technically work up to for this season alone and get us up to the $70 mil top limit but that shit can't be any trades or signings of length because next season it's the HARD $64 mil cap.



The new CBA won't even be ratified until Sun. so it's not like anyone can make any trade tweaks because no players are currently contractually obligated to any team yet. Jesus, it's just a lame ass 48-game season they have to get through---every team's weaknesses are going to be taxed under the compressed schedule.





Also? WTH are people even talking about fucking Montador? He's a non-factor at this point. He STILL hasn't even been cleared for practice last I read anything about him and his concussion symptoms. He's exactly where he was before the season ended and the CBA expired---medically not playable.

 

[thanson1990]

The biggest lineup problem is that they have 4 top six forwards. It's been that way since the great roster purge of 2010. Eddie Os rant at the end of the playoffs last year was one of the rare times I actually agreed with him. They have a lot of players that are valuable to your team, good guys to have, but they're not top 6 guys. They have a lot of interchangeable parts to put in the bottom 6, but they need more top end talent on the roster. Could Saad fill a spot, maybe. But otherwise, I just don't know where the top end talent is going to come from. Sharp is the second best center on the team, but he doesn't want to play there. Last I checked, they won a Cup that way, but Q won't put him there. They need to figure it out by the deadline if they want to make a run in the playoffs. Maybe its time for Stan to part with some of those prospects that he loves so much, but they just need more.

 

[PatrickShart]

The whole Oduya thing being labaeled as garbage as is a bit ridiculous/overblown



He's not a bad defenceman at all.



He had his pocket picked vs Doan for a goal...and god forbid Crawford bail him out.



Also in the playoffs? He was a +1 in a series where every game was decided by 1 goal essentially in the first 5gms and 17-12 in the series ...and the last game the Hawks dominated and lost



He was second on the Hawks D in hits and blocked shots in the series. He was listed as having only 2 giveaways in that series.



The horrendous D allowed less than 20 shots a game in the last 3gms of the playoffs.



The shitty Hawks D were 9th in shots against. This is pro sports and all of them are geared towards offense. Scoring chances are going to happen. EVERY GAME FOR EVERY TEAM. Its a fact. Cold hard fact. And sometimes...a goaltender is going to have to stop the puck, make incredible saves, be in a zone. It happens for every team, not just the Hawks. The D cannot block every single shot. The D cannot prevent every single scoring chance.



Everyone wants the "exciting" team from the cup year. Well, the Hawks rely on quick transition, good outlet passing, mobile defenceman. The ability to have the long stretch passes.



They do not rely on the big, slug Dmen who are going to punch people in the back of the head...destroy people in front of the net (which isn't allowed anymore anyways)



Oduya is a mobile defenceman, and a very good passer. It fits what they want. Get the puck to the forwards on the move. Transition the play/puck. The Hawks team D - is offence. Puck possession. The more the puck is on the stick, the less defence they have to play.



The goaltending needs to be better than a .900%. The PP needs to be better.



I think Hjarllmarsson will be the "odd man out" of the group. Rosival and Brookbank were both brought in to help the PK, I assume.



Rosival is a +100 shot blocker/+100 hits...but hasn't played full seasons last 2 years

Brookbank is a +100 shot blocker/+100 hits as well.



Both guys are 6'2 200lbs. So the Hawks tried to address the PK with those 2 guys. I don't know how well they can fit in the puck possession/passing of the Hawks.



And after coming over at the deadline, the Hawks had probably their best stretch of winning games - while losing Keith and not having Toews during that time.



The bottom 6 D will probably read -

Leddy - Rosival

Oduya - Mont/Brookbank



So each pair will have a mobile D, and a physical/stay at home D/shot blocking D. This will take Leddy off the PK, which he was forced to play a lot last year, as a 21 year old.



I'm way more worried about the goaltending than I am the D. Way bigger questions on a goaltender that gets rattled and mentally can't handle letting in a bad goal or a bad loss, especially when the turn around time is going to be even quicker this season.

 

[Ton]

I never said Oduya sucks, I just don't think he's a top-four defenseman. If you're talking about keeping Oduya over Hammer I disagree.

 

[Ton]

big fat canadian post

Well I figured if we traded 2 defenseman we would still have 7 if we kept Olsen up here.



As Hanson stated, we have some good guys on the team, but too many bottom line players and trying to fit them into top line roles. God, that just reminds me of Stan acquiring Brendan fucking Morrison as our 2nd line C last year! Oduya is a fine player, but we needed a right shot for the 2nd pairing. This guy is beginning to look clueless, when it's pretty damn obvious what the team needs... instead he brings in a clusterfuck of 2nd rate players and hopes he wins $1000 from his $1 scratch-off.

 

[PatrickShart]

What RH shot top 4 dmen did you want them to get?

 

[Ton]

The whole Oduya thing being labaeled as garbage as is a bit ridiculous/overblown



He's not a bad defenceman at all.



He had his pocket picked vs Doan for a goal...and god forbid Crawford bail him out.

Still blaming Crawford? I just re-watched the series on NHL Network a few days ago -- without much emotional attachment. Crawford bailed out the team a lot, he actually looked pretty fucking good outside of the 2 blown OT goals. Mike Smith outplayed him, but in that respect Smith was arguably the 2nd best goaltender in the playoffs behind Quick.

 

[PatrickShart]

Blaming him for the playoffs? No.



Blaming him for the shit .900% in the regular season? Yes. I think he should shoulder way more of the blame than the defence.



Did you watch the first period of game 6 when the Hawks dominated and Smith bailed out his team/kept them in the game?

 

[Ton]

What RH shot top 4 dmen did you want them to get?

Any of them?



Campbell wasn't a righty anyway and he worked well with Hjalmarsson. But considering Campbell is a top pairing defenseman anyway, I don't think someone of his caliber is an option. I can't see why they couldn't pick up a guy for $4-5m per season if they get rid of Oduya and Montador.

 

[Ton]

Blaming him for the playoffs? No.



Blaming him for the shit .900% in the regular season? Yes. I think he should shoulder way more of the blame than the defence.



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Did you watch the first period of game 6 when the Hawks dominated and Smith bailed out his team/kept them in the game?[/font]

Well his save percent was shit in the playoffs too... but seriously after watching that series I was surprised at how stupid that stat is.



I watched all of them, Crawford had his moments too. Smith got hot at the right time, that's really all that happened. If the Hawks could have lived up to the offensive powerhouse they are accustomed to being, we might be talking about a 3rd round exit or Stanley Cup win rather than this.

 

[PatrickShart]

Who? GIve me a name of someone that was traded/available?



Schenn? Cost JVR. Hawks don't have any big, young scoring wingers to get him. And Schenn won't help the PP.

 

[PatrickShart]

Ok...so in your mind, Crawford was as solid as anyone in the league last year. Definitely above average. And the D solely let him down.



They need to block more shots, allow less than the 28 a game they did. Because Crawford is a rock.

 

[Ton]

Ok...so in your mind, Crawford was as solid as anyone in the league last year. Definitely above average. And the D solely let him down.



They need to block more shots, allow less than the 28 a game they did. Because Crawford is a rock.

I never said that. But damn, watching that playoff run was brutal with defensive breakdowns. Wasn't so much the quantity of shots, it was the quality. If you want to talk about blocking shots, the Phoenix D probably outblocked the Hawks by double. Crawford made the big saves too -- he just couldn't make enough. I also think Crawford is one of the best one-on-one goaltenders in the league.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ORl0CiHqZI[/media]



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnEa7cc3jxE[/media]



theres more that are similar like the two saves above but i'm lazy and don't really care to argue or find them.

 

[LordKOTL]

I never said Oduya sucks, I just don't think he's a top-four defenseman. If you're talking about keeping Oduya over Hammer I disagree.

IMHO the choice between Hammer and Oduya is going to be political descsion, not a skill one. Odyua is a San acquisition, Hammer is a Tallon one.



I think +/- speaks volumes in the choice though. Oduya was a low -. Hammer was a solid + in spite of playing a lot with Leddy. No matter how our problems in the backend break down, I think you should err on the side of D ability, but as I said, Stan will likley stick with Oduya



I also agree that part of the problem is guys playing far beyond their role and ability. Argubly Hammer & Leddy *could* be top-4 if they have elite talent next to them. Unfortunately, Campbell's not here anymore, Seabrook works well with Keith, and Keith couldn't elevate Leddy's game.



I do get excited over guys like Brookbank because he is pretty much exactly what the team needed last year. If he plays his role--bottom pairing/pk/crease clearer, it solves an issue we had. Same with Rosival although I'm less familiar with his game. As long as neither are played as if they're the second coming of Pilote i think we should be fine.

I never said that. But damn, watching that playoff run was brutal with defensive breakdowns. Wasn't so much the quantity of shots, it was the quality. If you want to talk about blocking shots, the Phoenix D probably outblocked the Hawks by double. Crawford made the big saves too -- he just couldn't make enough. I also think Crawford is one of the best one-on-one goaltenders in the league.

....

theres more that are similar like the two saves above but i'm lazy and don't really care to argue or find them.

The fact that Craw has the highest shootout save percentage should drive that point home. Not that he doesn't need to make leaps and bounds in improvement and prove to the world that his sub-par play was a fluke, but the team D shouldn't be let off the hook either--as bad as some of Crawford's play, and Emery's play was at times last year, so was everyone else's behind the redline. I could go through multiple examples, but I think it all boils down tho this: If you put on the indianhead sweater last year or stood behind the bench in a suit, you were to blame for the piss-poor play behind the red line, and you need to be better and play smarter hockey.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Olsen should finish the year in the AHL. Unless he's getting top 4 minutes (which he won't) let him be a 1st pairing Dman in Rockford.



I like the following:



Stalberg/Toews/Kane

Sharp/Kruger/Hossa

Carcillo/Bolland/Shaw

Bickell/Mayers/Bollig



Seabs-Keith

Hammer-Leddy

Oduya-Brookbank



Frolik just doesn't fit on this team. As much as I think he's going to be a solid 50-60 point guy in the NHL, its not going to happen on the Hawks.

Kruger is a center and IMO has a good grasp of the defensive zone and can move the puck well. Let him play it out. (Pirri would be the next best thing).



Keep Olsen, Saad, Morin, Smith, Hayes and Beach in the AHL and let them get top line minutes. When Mayers and Bickell don't get resigned this summer, and maybe a trade or buyout (Hossa) there will be more roster spots for them. But not playing top 6 minutes, isn't going to help their development.



Roszival is the 7th man. Montador is lame.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

The main thing is, Q is going to not have the luxury of 48 games to figure out his lineup for the 2nd half of the season. Hopefully he can find guys who are clicking early so he doesn't (but will) play musically chairs for the whole regular season.