Hawks Lineup 2013

[Larmer83]

Olsen should finish the year in the AHL. Unless he's getting top 4 minutes (which he won't) let him be a 1st pairing Dman in Rockford.



I like the following:



Stalberg/Toews/Kane

Sharp/Kruger/Hossa

Carcillo/Bolland/Shaw

Bickell/Mayers/Bollig



Seabs-Keith

Hammer-Leddy

Oduya-Brookbank



Frolik just doesn't fit on this team. As much as I think he's going to be a solid 50-60 point guy in the NHL, its not going to happen on the Hawks.

I was with you until that point. Frolik has a greater chance of being out of the NHL after next year than being a solid 50-60 point girl in the NHL.

The main thing is, Q is going to not have the luxury of 48 games to figure out his lineup for the 2nd half of the season. Hopefully he can find guys who are clicking early so he doesn't (but will) play musically chairs for the whole regular season.

Given the lack of turnover on the roster, especially amongst the forwards, this should be easy to accomplish. Even for Q.

 

[PatrickShart]

IMHO the choice between Hammer and Oduya is going to be political descsion, not a skill one. Odyua is a San acquisition, Hammer is a Tallon one.



I think +/- speaks volumes in the choice though. Oduya was a low -. Hammer was a solid + in spite of playing a lot with Leddy. No matter how our problems in the backend break down, I think you should err on the side of D ability, but as I said, Stan will likley stick with Oduya



I also agree that part of the problem is guys playing far beyond their role and ability. Argubly Hammer & Leddy *could* be top-4 if they have elite talent next to them. Unfortunately, Campbell's not here anymore, Seabrook works well with Keith, and Keith couldn't elevate Leddy's game.

Oduya is a career +30 (To Nik's +33)

+4 in 24gms with CHI (including playoffs)

+45 in 273gms in NJ

-18 in 172gms in Atlantapeg



Since 09-10...blocked shots -

Hjarll - 226gms - 147hits - 445blks

Odya- 230gms - 190hits - 413blks



Oduya is much better at handling the puck/outlet passing, IMO

 

[puterwiz53]

I canot see Hammer and Leddy teamed together as it proved disastrous last year. Leddy will more likely be teamed with Oduya. I think Hammer will be moved to another team by next Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest. The Hawks have too many defense men at the moment and they only two defense men other than Keith & Seabs who bring back the better return would be either Leddy or Hammer. Here is how I see the starting defnse line up:



Seabs & Keith

Oduya & Montador

Leddy & Brookbank

Rosival



Hammer will be traded with either Frolik or Krueger and a prospect or two for a 2nd line center.



Forward lines:

Sharp/Toews/Kane

Stalberg/2nd line center from trade/Hossa

Shaw/Bolland/Carcillo

Bickell/Mayers/Bollig



Smith could easily steal a spot on the roster.

 

[LordKOTL]

Oduya is a career +30 (To Nik's +33)

+4 in 24gms with CHI (including playoffs)

+45 in 273gms in NJ

-18 in 172gms in Atlantapeg



Since 09-10...blocked shots -

Hjarll - 226gms - 147hits - 445blks

Odya- 230gms - 190hits - 413blks



Oduya is much better at handling the puck/outlet passing, IMO

Okay, I stand corrected. Similar games. Either way, one of them should be moved.



Wiz: Monty might not play much, but I think Rosival can be slotted in there somewhere without much of a hitch. As long as Q plays Brookbank/Rosival to their strengths as crease-clearing stay-at home defesemen with PK time i don't think they'll have problems.



On forward though, Kruger needs to fit in there somehow; management seems high on him and i don't think he'll be moved. Other than that I like your lineup.

 

[thanson1990]

I canot see Hammer and Leddy teamed together as it proved disastrous last year. Leddy will more likely be teamed with Oduya. I think Hammer will be moved to another team by next Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest. The Hawks have too many defense men at the moment and they only two defense men other than Keith & Seabs who bring back the better return would be either Leddy or Hammer. Here is how I see the starting defnse line up:



Seabs & Keith

Oduya & Montador

Leddy & Brookbank

Rosival



Hammer will be traded with either Frolik or Krueger and a prospect or two for a 2nd line center.



Forward lines:

Sharp/Toews/Kane

Stalberg/2nd line center from trade/Hossa

Shaw/Bolland/Carcillo

Bickell/Mayers/Bollig



Smith could easily steal a spot on the roster.

I like it, but if they can move Kruger and keep Frolik, make the third line Ssmith Bolland and Ffrolik, pushh carcillo to the fourth, and make Shaw and Bollig disappear

 

[PatrickShart]

I think Hjarll showed earlier in his career, he had the ability to have more of the open ice hitting from an intimidation factor..but those have seemed to have gone away since that suspension, unfortunately.

 

[winos5]

I canot see Hammer and Leddy teamed together as it proved disastrous last year. Leddy will more likely be teamed with Oduya. I think Hammer will be moved to another team by next Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest. The Hawks have too many defense men at the moment and they only two defense men other than Keith & Seabs who bring back the better return would be either Leddy or Hammer. Here is how I see the starting defnse line up:



Seabs & Keith

Oduya & Montador

Leddy & Brookbank

Rosival



Hammer will be traded with either Frolik or Krueger and a prospect or two for a 2nd line center.



Forward lines:

Sharp/Toews/Kane

Stalberg/2nd line center from trade/Hossa

Shaw/Bolland/Carcillo

Bickell/Mayers/Bollig



Smith could easily steal a spot on the roster.

I don't think Hammer + 3/4 line player = 2nd line center. Will take more than that to land a bonafide #2 pivot.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I like it, but if they can move Kruger and keep Frolik, make the third line Ssmith Bolland and Ffrolik, pushh carcillo to the fourth, and make Shaw and Bollig disappear

Let me get this straight, you want Frolik on this team with a huge cap hit, and want Shaw and Bollig (who bring a lot more to the table) to disappear for the league minimum?



Mind boggle'd...

 

[thanson1990]

Let me get this straight, you want Frolik on this team with a huge cap hit, and want Shaw and Bollig (who bring a lot more to the table) to disappear for the league minimum?



Mind boggle'd...

I dislike Bollig, just don't think he adds value. I think Shaw is overrated and don't think he can continue like he did. The amount of dumb penalties he took in Rockford, leaving the bench to fight, I think he may end up doing more harm than good. Frolik, unfortunately, isnt going anywhere anytime soon. They won't buy him out, and if used properly I think he can be a contributor. I don't think anyone would take him in a trade because, as you said, his cap hit is huge for him. I'm not a Frolik fan, and wouldn't hate to see him go by any means. I just don't think its going to happen, and they may be able to get at least something out of him. He's mature enough as a player where he won't make the boneheaded mistakes that I've seen Shaw make all year in Rockford. I may be way wrong, but I just think its a better option.

 

[Ton]

I don't trust Oduya when it comes down to battling forwards in front of our net.



I trust Hjalmarsson when it comes down to battling forwards in front of our net.



I don't care about stats that only record open ice hits or "collisions".... Hjalmarsson is a much better/effective physical player than Oduya will ever be. You can talk about moving the puck all you want but Hjalmarsson can make a pass, he just doesn't skate the puck up the ice. I'm pretty much OK with that. Oduya might be a little bit quicker on his feet, but Hjalmarsson is a better positional skater and sticks to simple hockey. We didn't have 3-4 guys back there when we won the Cup that wanted to skate with the puck -- and at times cause a chinese firedrill... the only two we had were Keith and Campbell. The rest stuck to meat and potatoes defending. Let Leddy be the 2nd puck skating defenseman behind Keith, Oduya has no purpose here.



If anyone disliked the pairing of Hjalmarsson/Leddy, they sure as hell hated the Oduya/Leddy pairing. Neither of them on that pairing could move anybody from the front of the net -- I'm not excited to see that.



In 2010:



Keith/Seabrook

Hjalmarsson/Campbell(Byfuglien)

Hendry(Boynton)/Sopel

 

[LordKOTL]

I don't trust Oduya when it comes down to battling forwards in front of our net.



I trust Hjalmarsson when it comes down to battling forwards in front of our net.



I don't care about stats that only record open ice hits or "collisions".... Hjalmarsson is a much better/effective physical player than Oduya will ever be. You can talk about moving the puck all you want but Hjalmarsson can make a pass, he just doesn't skate the puck up the ice. I'm pretty much OK with that. Oduya might be a little bit quicker on his feet, but Hjalmarsson is a better positional skater and sticks to simple hockey. We didn't have 3-4 guys back there when we won the Cup that wanted to skate with the puck -- and at times cause a chinese firedrill... the only two we had were Keith and Campbell. The rest stuck to meat and potatoes defending. Let Leddy be the 2nd puck skating defenseman behind Keith, Oduya has no purpose here.



If anyone disliked the pairing of Hjalmarsson/Leddy, they sure as hell hated the Oduya/Leddy pairing. Neither of them on that pairing could move anybody from the front of the net -- I'm not excited to see that.



In 2010:



Keith/Seabrook

Hjalmarsson/Campbell(Byfuglien)

Hendry(Boynton)/Sopel

Hammer could theoretically battle in front of the net, he just never did last year. Only Seabrook did that last year; when all other defenders were on the ice, be it Craw or Emery, they just sat and watched as the opposing skater stood unopposed at the netmouth and took 5-6 whacks at the goalie's pads. Assuming Q doesn't pussy out, we now have Brookbank and Rosival to handle that as well.



I like Hammer's backend play (the eye-test) better than Oduya's, but really, both players on-ice are almost carbon copies and play a similar speed-pokecheck first and hit later game. Plus, they're both lefties. Oduya had a bit better chemistry than Leddy, Hammer somehow wound up a plus in spite of Leddy.



Really, I think overall it doesn't matter who goes; I just think one of then needs to because they're redundant off of each other. Hammer could also bring back more in a return.



Leddy probably has more upside of both if he could stop taking outlet pass lessons from Keith and get his +/- under control. Playing on his correct side could help as well. We'll see how he does this year.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I dislike Bollig, just don't think he adds value. I think Shaw is overrated and don't think he can continue like he did. The amount of dumb penalties he took in Rockford, leaving the bench to fight, I think he may end up doing more harm than good. Frolik, unfortunately, isnt going anywhere anytime soon. They won't buy him out, and if used properly I think he can be a contributor. I don't think anyone would take him in a trade because, as you said, his cap hit is huge for him. I'm not a Frolik fan, and wouldn't hate to see him go by any means. I just don't think its going to happen, and they may be able to get at least something out of him. He's mature enough as a player where he won't make the boneheaded mistakes that I've seen Shaw make all year in Rockford. I may be way wrong, but I just think its a better option.

I mean I see a ton of good things from our young guys coming up. First off they seem to have great chemistry and play like chickens with their heads cut off. Shaw is going to take some bone head penalties, I mean Kane had about 25 high sticks his first two years. Shaw has a definite scoring touch and nack around the net, him mixing it up is only an added plus on a team that very often needs a lift. From what I read about Shaw leaving the bench I enjoyed, his teammates were getting the shaft and he evened the odds...if that leads to the next goalie fight in the NHL I'll only love the guy even more.



As for Bollig, he can actually skate, is a monster who can be a very effective 4th liner. I can't imagine him ever whining about ice time, being a scratch etc., he knows his role and this team is in huge need for guys who can accept they are not top 6, or 9, material. Not to mention he will be getting what a 4th liner should be paid!!!

 

[thanson1990]

I mean I see a ton of good things from our young guys coming up. First off they seem to have great chemistry and play like chickens with their heads cut off. Shaw is going to take some bone head penalties, I mean Kane had about 25 high sticks his first two years. Shaw has a definite scoring touch and nack around the net, him mixing it up is only an added plus on a team that very often needs a lift. From what I read about Shaw leaving the bench I enjoyed, his teammates were getting the shaft and he evened the odds...if that leads to the next goalie fight in the NHL I'll only love the guy even more.



As for Bollig, he can actually skate, is a monster who can be a very effective 4th liner. I can't imagine him ever whining about ice time, being a scratch etc., he knows his role and this team is in huge need for guys who can accept they are not top 6, or 9, material. Not to mention he will be getting what a 4th liner should be paid!!!

We'll see, i guess. I just don't think Shaw will be able to repeat what he did last year, but that remains to be seen. Honestly, the contracts don't matter that much to me, since the hawks don't have cap trouble right now. All i want is for the best lineup to be out there, it doesn't make a difference who. I'm just worried about Shaw's discipline. With every game meaning that much more in a shortened season, costing your team a game by taking a stupid penalty is intolerable. If he plays like he did last year, then of course he should be in the lineup every night. He brought energy and grit that they have lacked in recent years.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

We'll see, i guess. I just don't think Shaw will be able to repeat what he did last year, but that remains to be seen. Honestly, the contracts don't matter that much to me, since the hawks don't have cap trouble right now. All i want is for the best lineup to be out there, it doesn't make a difference who. I'm just worried about Shaw's discipline. With every game meaning that much more in a shortened season, costing your team a game by taking a stupid penalty is intolerable. If he plays like he did last year, then of course he should be in the lineup every night. He brought energy and grit that they have lacked in recent years.

Him and Hayes were just a breath of fresh air last year. There is a good chance he doesn't recreate what he did last year, but remember none of his goals were exactly flashy, just hard gritty goals. That reason leads to to believe that if he's ready to work as hard the results should be there again.

 

[PatrickShart]

I think Shaw had a pretty good compete level, and won a good amount of board battles in the offensive zone. I like Hayes compete level/willingness to stick his nose in there as well. I'd take either of them over Frolik in the lineup...possibly Bickell as well once he goes into slug mode..



Shaw needs to keep his PIMs under control, however. I don't expect him to be the 25-30g scorer he was pacing for (would be great)..but I can see him around the 15-20 mark

 

[thanson1990]

Him and Hayes were just a breath of fresh air last year. There is a good chance he doesn't recreate what he did last year, but remember none of his goals were exactly flashy, just hard gritty goals. That reason leads to to believe that if he's ready to work as hard the results should be there again.

I like Hayes a lot, but it seems like they don't have a spot for him.



Off topic, but it sure is great to be discussing actual hockey instead of legal bull shit.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I think Shaw had a pretty good compete level, and won a good amount of board battles in the offensive zone. I like Hayes compete level/willingness to stick his nose in there as well. I'd take either of them over Frolik in the lineup...possibly Bickell as well once he goes into slug mode..



Shaw needs to keep his PIMs under control, however. I don't expect him to be the 25-30g scorer he was pacing for (would be great)..but I can see him around the 15-20 mark

Same here, but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned into a Burrows type player. As in seeing he has 30 something goals and not being able to believe it.



And yea I'd take Hayes over Bickell anyday. Bickell really had his chance IMO, he was developed and given his time in the AHL, then when we had key departures and it was time for him to step up he not only didn't fill the role needed, he didn't do much of anything. Give me the young guys with something to prove over bums like him and Frolik everyday.

 

[PatrickShart]

Don't ever - EVER compare a Hawk to Burrows. You are shunned.



Bickell had a pretty good playoffs....it would be nice to see that carry over.

 

[LordKOTL]

So did Frolik...and Morisson, but I think that's less on them as player and more on how some of our regulars performed.



And I agree...i missed the hockey talk. I it asn't for fixing FoxSoccer on my cable, the Rugby 7's world cup, and the world juniors, i'd have no good sports to watch this winter.

 

[the canadian dream]

Don't ever - EVER compare a Hawk to Burrows. You are shunned.

Your mom is like Burrows...she bites hard.