Heard something just now on "The Score" that didn't make sense....

[NCChiFan]

At least to me. They said there are trade rumors involving Castro. My question is, why would you consider trades when you haven't hired a manager? He may have a different assessment of Castro and have an argument for keeping him where the GM seems to be considering a unilateral decision.

Obviously it is a rumor, but it struck me as odd.

Same could be said for other moves as well, maybe the new manager thinks there is a problem in an area that needs fixing that the GM didn't see or realize?

Edit: Not that I wouldn't get rid of Castro, I just find it odd that the GM is making moves without being settled on a manager.

 

[beckdawg]

At least to me. They said there are trade rumors involving Castro. My question is, why would you consider trades when you haven't hired a manager? He may have a different assessment of Castro and have an argument for keeping him where the GM seems to be considering a unilateral decision.

Obviously it is a rumor, but it struck me as odd.

Same could be said for other moves as well, maybe the new manager thinks there is a problem in an area that needs fixing that the GM didn't see or realize?

It's rather unlikely they would move him before the winter meetings. And presumably, they will hire a manger in the next week or two. The rumors out there could just be discussions on what the possible return would be.

 

[Boobaby1]

At least to me. They said there are trade rumors involving Castro. My question is, why would you consider trades when you haven't hired a manager? He may have a different assessment of Castro and have an argument for keeping him where the GM seems to be considering a unilateral decision.

Obviously it is a rumor, but it struck me as odd.

Same could be said for other moves as well, maybe the new manager thinks there is a problem in an area that needs fixing that the GM didn't see or realize?

I am guessing that the mental lapse the FO sees have little to do with the manager as far as correcting them. He has been talked to, warned, and been suspended for those lapses and continues to make them. Sometimes it is best to sever the ties. I have no problem with it.

The last thing I want is when the Cubs are in a playoff run, their SS pulls a bone-head mistake that the whole world sees and potentially costs the Cubs a game or a series.

As much as I dislike Barney's offensive production, at least his head is in the game at all times defensively.

 

[beckdawg]

I would also suspect the return for Castro would have to be rather immense. For example, the dbacks traded for Gregorius who's no where near the offensive threat Castro is and gave up Bauer who was a top 20 prospect before the season. That being said, I don't think the idea is off the table. If you could get a real front line starter for him the move makes some sense. Baez wouldn't have to move from SS. Bryant or Olt could play 3B.

 

[chibears55]

You’re going to hear a lot about Starlin Castro this offseason. That was likely to be true regardless of whether Javier Baez exploded up the ranks last year, or whether Castro crapped the offensive bed. But with those two things happening in tandem, Castro mentions project to go off the charts. According to Matt Cerone (who was a forerunner in proving that your site can have “Blog” in the title and still be considered a quality enterprise), the Cubs are making Castro available this offseason, and they’re looking for at least one top pitching prospect in the deal. And the reason putting such a deal together is going to be nearly impossible? Cerone concludes that, presently, Castro is not worth Zack Wheeler (“not even close”). And I can’t blame him, given Castro’s disastrous 2013 season. But from a Cubs evaluator’s perspective, one who knows the tinkering that went on with Castro this year, I’d say that Wheeler, alone, isn’t enough for Castro. Not even close. Castro turns 24 next year, and is under control through 2020 at a relative bargain price. Maybe he never bounces back, and that “bargain” becomes a noose. But if he returns to 2010-12 form (not even taking a step forward)? Getting a single Zack Wheeler for Castro could prove a horrible move.
That is all to say: unless the Cubs are so down on Castro that they’re willing to take a “buying low” price on him, or unless there’s at least one team out there willing to pay for his potential, making a trade will not be possible. But, hey, never rule out the possibility that the Cubs just want to dump him, or that there are teams out there who can see past 2013.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2013/...des-saltalamacchia-ellsbury-yoon-tanaka-more/

If they feel jaxier Baez is that close to the majors and they think castro could net them a quality starter in return.. they will consider moving him..

as far as managers goes, ive got a feeling one of their questions when interviewing is their thoughts on certain players ( castro, rizzo, samarddzija, etc )
basically how they feel these players will have an impact in the game,,

just like castro, im sure their looking to see what samardzija could net them too..

 

[NCChiFan]

The report was that the Cardinal's are looking to make the trade, they have a serious hole at SS, or so the announcers were saying. Talked about a Pitcher that pitched real well in the regular season but didn't make an appearance in the WS which they though was odd.

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

 

[Jntg4]

Everyone seems so eager to get rid of a guy at his all-time minimum value.

 

[dabears253313]

What a liability Starlin Castro. Seriously he is just a bum with no talent. No one makes the mistakes that Starlin Castro makes. Albert Pujols is one of many players to forget how many outs there are but it's okay because he's AP. Javier Baez made 44 errors in the minors this past season but it's okay because everyone can see to the future.

Most people thought Starlin Castro would be a top franchise top 5 shortstop after his rookie season, don't lie.

I can't wait for Starlin Castro to bounce back in 2014. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Javier Baez as well and I think he will be a good player, but please stop. Baez has no experience in MLB so no one knows how he will do. Remember Felix Pie?

Remember Josh Vitters? With the way people talked about him, you weren't even supposed to hear of Javier Baez and he would be locked in at third base now.

If Baez slumps (I don't think he will) the tune of a lot of people will change.

 

[Jntg4]

What a liability Starlin Castro. Seriously he is just a bum with no talent. No one makes the mistakes that Starlin Castro makes. Albert Pujols is one of many players to forget how many outs there are but it's okay because he's AP. Javier Baez made 44 errors in the minors this past season but it's okay because everyone can see to the future.

Most people thought Starlin Castro would be a top franchise top 5 shortstop after his rookie season, don't lie.

I can't wait for Starlin Castro to bounce back in 2014. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Javier Baez as well and I think he will be a good player, but please stop. Baez has no experience in MLB so no one knows how he will do. Remember Felix Pie?

Remember Josh Vitters? With the way people talked about him, you weren't even supposed to hear of Javier Baez and he would be locked in at third base now.

If Baez slumps (I don't think he will) the tune of a lot of people will change.

Be excited for both. I believe Stro and Rizz will rebound a bit, Shark could get us a good haul in a trade still (no extension in sight), and the monsters lurking in Iowa, Tennessee, Florida, the Chicago suburbs, Idaho, Arizona, the Dominican Republic and Venezuela are going to be something fun to watch.

 

[SilenceS]

Makes no sense to trade Castro. This is all smoke.

1. No one including the Cubs know if Baez could truly handle short.

2. You would be selling low. He goes to the Cardinals. You can pencil him as a perennial all star.

3. He actually showed much improvement on D in the second half. Way more solid and way more fundamentally sound. He made some really damn good plays and a couple of incredible ones. He has really good range.

4. I believe it shows a bad precedent to give your young two time all star shortstop a contract then because he has a bad year. Lets ship him off. Players need trust and other players would see that.

5. It is partly Cubs FO and management that made Castro bad. They tried to stick a square peg in a round hole. Not every fucking player has to be a .370 or more OBP guy. Lets Castro flow and see if he learns with experience. Don't change him into something he is not.

Also, I find it ridiculous that every trade rumor is about our "core" players according to Theo last year now they are expandable. Shark, Castro, Castillo.

 

[beckdawg]

To be clear, earlier I wasn't saying the cubs had to trade castro. However, if the right deal came along it would make sense.

 

[CSF77]

Also, I find it ridiculous that every trade rumor is about our "core" players according to Theo last year now they are expandable. Shark, Castro, Castillo.

Castillo there is no legit rumor that they are replacing him.

But all of those guys were already here when they took over.

But getting to being real. If they have 2 all star type SS and system wise 3B is deep already why move a SS to 3B when you can use that SS to strengthen a system weakness.

SP is the main weakness going on and if they can use excess depth to acquire it then do so.

Up until this year I was questioning if Castro could handle SS with his 30 errors per year rate. He got better so why all of a sudden are we doubting that baez can not also improve.

To suggest that Baez is locked into this 44 error box is as silly as saying Castro was locked into this 30 error box.

But hitting 37 HR vs 15 HR's. That is something that sets them apart.

 

[TL1961]

At least to me. They said there are trade rumors involving Castro. My question is, why would you consider trades when you haven't hired a manager? He may have a different assessment of Castro and have an argument for keeping him where the GM seems to be considering a unilateral decision.

Obviously it is a rumor, but it struck me as odd.

Same could be said for other moves as well, maybe the new manager thinks there is a problem in an area that needs fixing that the GM didn't see or realize?

Edit: Not that I wouldn't get rid of Castro, I just find it odd that the GM is making moves without being settled on a manager.

You do realize that "trade rumors" are often simply speculation by a reporter that someone may be on the block. A writer may have looked at the Cubs SS depth and connected those dots himself.

 

[TL1961]

Castillo there is no legit rumor that they are replacing him.

But all of those guys were already here when they took over.

But getting to being real. If they have 2 all star type SS and system wise 3B is deep already why move a SS to 3B when you can use that SS to strengthen a system weakness.

SP is the main weakness going on and if they can use excess depth to acquire it then do so.

Up until this year I was questioning if Castro could handle SS with his 30 errors per year rate. He got better so why all of a sudden are we doubting that baez can not also improve.

To suggest that Baez is locked into this 44 error box is as silly as saying Castro was locked into this 30 error box.

But hitting 37 HR vs 15 HR's. That is something that sets them apart.

I've read about Baez' defense, and it sounded very matter-of-fact that his errors will go way down. He has been playing too aggressively, and his D does not seem to be a big concern to the organization.

 

[TL1961]

We have depth behind him, so we could afford to trade him.

But I don't need another Lou Brock going to the Cards.

laugh at me if you'd like, but Castro may get close to 3000 hits before he is through. He is 23 years old and has close to 700 already. He clearly tailed off from a 200 hit season, but 200 hits at age 21 shows something. No reason he shouldn't get back to a good batting average. He was messed up this past year. .245 was a fluke.

 

[SilenceS]

Baez range will not be Castros. Baez will sure get better but he did make more errors then Castro at that age and Castro was playing in the big time then.

The Castillo rumors are directly to the Cubs wanted to pursue Salt and would trade out Castillo.

 

[beckdawg]

We have depth behind him, so we could afford to trade him.

But I don't need another Lou Brock going to the Cards.

laugh at me if you'd like, but Castro may get close to 3000 hits before he is through. He is 23 years old and has close to 700 already. He clearly tailed off from a 200 hit season, but 200 hits at age 21 shows something. No reason he shouldn't get back to a good batting average. He was messed up this past year. .245 was a fluke.

His average isn't what concerns me. It's his OBP because that's where a player like him is going to make his money. His .284 OBP this year is down right horrible. Maybe it's a fluke. However, .323 the year before also is a concern because that's a place he should excel and he did his first two years. .320 OBP is pretty average. If Castro doesn't improve that, what does he really offer? He's a 10 HR type guy. In his best years he was a low 20's SB guy. He has potential to be a decent defender if the mental lapses go away. But as an offensive force, he has to be getting on base or he's a decent defender and a 7th or 8th hitter. And if he's only ever average there then what's the point? I'd much rather have an average OBP guy who can steal more or who has a bit more power than castro.

On the other hand, if he gets back up to the .340 OBP area, he's got the potential to be a plus defender at a difficult position and could be a lead off hitter type. That has value.

 

[TL1961]

Good point.

His OBP is the more important thing, and as you say, it's way below where it needs to be.

 

[CSF77]

Baez range will not be Castros. Baez will sure get better but he did make more errors then Castro at that age and Castro was playing in the big time then.

The Castillo rumors are directly to the Cubs wanted to pursue Salt and would trade out Castillo.

Salt was benched towards the end of the play offs due to his game calling. They went with his back up over him and they won it all.

Castillo is known for his game calling right now and his O is picking up. Salty is a mistake if they do that.

 

[CSF77]

His average isn't what concerns me. It's his OBP because that's where a player like him is going to make his money. His .284 OBP this year is down right horrible. Maybe it's a fluke. However, .323 the year before also is a concern because that's a place he should excel and he did his first two years. .320 OBP is pretty average. If Castro doesn't improve that, what does he really offer? He's a 10 HR type guy. In his best years he was a low 20's SB guy. He has potential to be a decent defender if the mental lapses go away. But as an offensive force, he has to be getting on base or he's a decent defender and a 7th or 8th hitter. And if he's only ever average there then what's the point? I'd much rather have an average OBP guy who can steal more or who has a bit more power than castro.

On the other hand, if he gets back up to the .340 OBP area, he's got the potential to be a plus defender at a difficult position and could be a lead off hitter type. That has value.

Agree with that. They tried to mold him into a OBA type and it did not work. He is an aggressive type of hitter and waiting on pitches killed his hitting style.

He is basically Sori minus the power. When Sori was hitting near .300 BA every year. Neither is going to take walks.

Baez I doubt is going to take many pitches either but he has 30+ HR power at SS.