Heard something just now on "The Score" that didn't make sense....

[CSF77]

http://redbirdrants.com/2013/11/01/cardinals-inquired-starlin-castro/

Have The Cardinals Inquired On Starlin Castro?

It’s been a minute since I have had a chance to put my thoughts out there, but now that the Series is over it’s time to address one of the impending changes on the horizon.

Late last night the Cards were reported by Chicago Now to have already checked in with the Cubs about the availability of Starlin Castro via trade. If true, it’s nice to see Mozeliak is wasting no time in trying to address this obviously glaring issue. Clearly, the SS situation has to be addressed this offseason because there are no signs that St. Louis has anyone near the MLB level that can be an offensive contributor out of the position. Pete Kozma just isn’t cutting it. Daniel Descalso is a valuable piece in a backup capacity, capable of covering 3B, SS, and 2B, but he is not an MLB level every day starting SS.
In the post above the idea is floated that the package would center around either Shelby Miller, Carlos Martinez, or Tyrell Jenkins and would also need to include a SS coming back to the Cubs, which at this point would most seemingly have to be Kozma because they are going to be looking for a stopgap to provide a bridge to super-prospect Javy Baez, and Kozma is the only every day, defensively capable SS the Cards possess at this point.
From the Cubs angle, it seems like a sell low option because Castro has a ton of talent if some team could just manage to keep him engaged in the game mentally day in and day out. Perhaps a winning environment is all that it would take for Castro to become locked in every day. Certainly, that would have to be the Cardinals hope if they went through with this trade.
From the Cards angle, they’d be giving up a prized pitching prospect to facilitate this deal no matter which way they went. Is this the real reason Miller was held out throughout the playoffs? If it’s the case, I hope not, because they had a legit chance to win a World Series and it should have been all hands on deck. Regardless, in order to get anything of value you have to give something of value, and one of these young arms is probably going to be the price.
Most fans are going to want to see Lynn, or Kelly, dealt instead of Miller or Martinez, but the simple fact is that the Cards are in a position such that their pitching depth can absorb a loss like this and the machine should keep right on rolling along without registering much more than a minor blip on the radar.
Any trade is a risky proposition, but if the Cubs are willing to part with an everyday premium position player that has the ability that Castro has then the Cards definitely need to take these discussions seriously. We all saw that pitching alone can only take you so far. Therefore, parting with a minor amount of pitching to fill a major need should be more than acceptable.
So, Cards fans, does the idea of Starlin Castro donning the Birds on the Bat intrigue you enough to outweigh having to part with a prized pitching asset that St. Louis would then have to face for years to come, or should the Cards look elsewhere to fill their SS need?
You can follow Ryan on Twitter @RPKraemer

 

[CSF77]

Very interesting Cards perspective. Miller would be a solid return for Castro. Add in a filler SS in the deal and why not. Shoot toss them Barney while they are at it.

 

[Boobaby1]

Very interesting Cards perspective. Miller would be a solid return for Castro. Add in a filler SS in the deal and why not. Shoot toss them Barney while they are at it.

Sorry, but I would have to pass. I know the Cardinals have great pitching, and I would like to have them, but in no way would I give them the chance to turn Castro's head on straight.

If I am going to do that, trade with a team from a different division or league. Boston maybe? He would be a good fit for a team that has a surplus of talent in the organization.

I know the Cubs would want a stop gap until then and the Cardinals could offer that, but they seem to have managed to do that at every other position in the last two years. Surely they can do it at SS via free agency.

 

[TL1961]

Cards held Miller out for reasons unrelated to any potential trade. It is absurd to think a team would get to a WS and hold out a guy they wanted to use because they might trade him in the offseason. Makes no sense whatsoever.

I agree a team getting Castro now would have a chance to score big at a low price if / when he gets his head straight. I have no desire to see him go, especially at his lowest value.

The Cards could offer Kozma in return, but that's a piece that has zero value in a rebuild. Every team in baseball has a guy like that. Nothing special defensively, and doesn't hit worth a darn. No thanks!

Keep Castro. He needs a manager / coaching staff that handles him properly and gets him engaged. He has too much hitting ability to be a .245 hitter. He's far better than that.

 

[CSF77]

Sorry, but I would have to pass. I know the Cardinals have great pitching, and I would like to have them, but in no way would I give them the chance to turn Castro's head on straight.

If I am going to do that, trade with a team from a different division or league. Boston maybe? He would be a good fit for a team that has a surplus of talent in the organization.

I know the Cubs would want a stop gap until then and the Cardinals could offer that, but they seem to have managed to do that at every other position in the last two years. Surely they can do it at SS via free agency.

Goes both ways. Why would the Cards give the Cubs a 23 YO SP that put together a 15-7 season with an ERA in the 3. Silly to think that the Cards would give the Cubs a better pitcher than they already have.

Better question is why does it matter holding onto Castro? With him they lost 90+ 3 years in a row. Not seeing the major loss here.

 

[CSF77]

Cards held Miller out for reasons unrelated to any potential trade. It is absurd to think a team would get to a WS and hold out a guy they wanted to use because they might trade him in the offseason. Makes no sense whatsoever.

I agree a team getting Castro now would have a chance to score big at a low price if / when he gets his head straight. I have no desire to see him go, especially at his lowest value.

The Cards could offer Kozma in return, but that's a piece that has zero value in a rebuild. Every team in baseball has a guy like that. Nothing special defensively, and doesn't hit worth a darn. No thanks!

Keep Castro. He needs a manager / coaching staff that handles him properly and gets him engaged. He has too much hitting ability to be a .245 hitter. He's far better than that.

I think that writer hit it on the head with Castro. Winning makes you care more. Castro is not a player you build a team around. He is over valued because the team sucks and lacks talent.

 

[beckdawg]

If the cards gave up Miller and potentially more I'd do that in a heart beat but anything else I'd prefer to see him traded outside the division.

 

[Jntg4]

Goes both ways. Why would the Cards give the Cubs a 23 YO SP that put together a 15-7 season with an ERA in the 3. Silly to think that the Cards would give the Cubs a better pitcher than they already have.

Better question is why does it matter holding onto Castro? With him they lost 90+ 3 years in a row. Not seeing the major loss here.

I just can't agree with that kind of logic. If he was in his thirties, yes, but he's not even twenty-four yet.

That's like saying that Angels have sucked two years in a row with Trout (obviously a different level of value, but a loose example), so losing him wouldn't be a major loss.

 

[chibears55]

If the cards gave up Miller and potentially more I'd do that in a heart beat but anything else I'd prefer to see him traded outside the division.

i agree with this.... If the cubs are looking to deal castro to a division rival, then they better make sure they get as much as possible in return for him..

shelby miller had a good season but he is still a question mark being that it was his first full season..
pete Kozma will be a poor man darwin barney at SS, if he included...

seriously, i know a lot of you dont care for castro because of his occasional mental lapses but despite the kid has a lot of talent and proven potentials..
im ok with trading him, especially if Baez is the replacement at SS but they better make sure they get a solid proven player(s) in return..
castro for miller straight up, im not comfortable with that and Kozma as a throw in is just garbage..

mental mistakes aside, castro has proven to us what he can be with his first 3 years to give us some hope that 2013 was just a bad season for him

shelby miller is not proven yet in my book just after one season, he could easily turn around and go 9 and 15 with a 4.00 ERA next year...
for me i need to see a starter pitch 3 years before i can determine if he a solid starter or not...
ive seen quite a few starters have good first season and then go down hill, and ive seen it go the other way too.. so i need a couple seasons to make that determination on a starter..

 

[CSF77]

I just can't agree with that kind of logic. If he was in his thirties, yes, but he's not even twenty-four yet.

That's like saying that Angels have sucked two years in a row with Trout (obviously a different level of value, but a loose example), so losing him wouldn't be a major loss.

Think you are missing the point. I called Castro a player that you do not build around. He is not an impact hitter that can carry his team. Sori was that type of player who could put the team on his back durring one of his 14 HR months. Has done it and still did it with the Yanks.

Castro is a add in player. It is what it is. He is not a guy that can hit a HR with any swing of the bat. Teams do not have to pitch around him because of that threat.

In other words he is not a core hitter. He is a singles hitter that is getting over valued on a suck ass team. You put him on the Cards and he is not the focus or a core hitter there. He is lucky to hit 7 with his OBA.

 

[KBIB]

Castro for Shelby Miller?

I'd warm the car up right now and take good old Starlin to St. Louis myself.



CHAMPS!!!

 

[Flacco4Prez]

Castro for Shelby Miller?

I'd warm the car up right now and take good old Starlin to St. Louis myself.



CHAMPS!!!

Agreed, I would do that for sure. I like Castro a lot but that would be a huge return for him as Miller. That would allow Baez to play his natural position at SS, and Bryant his natural position at 3B as well

 

[beckdawg]

Agreed, I would do that for sure. I like Castro a lot but that would be a huge return for him as Miller. That would allow Baez to play his natural position at SS, and Bryant his natural position at 3B as well

Or conversely if Olt makes it back you have room for him now instead of having basically no where for him.

 

[KBIB]

Agreed, I would do that for sure. I like Castro a lot but that would be a huge return for him as Miller. That would allow Baez to play his natural position at SS, and Bryant his natural position at 3B as well

The thing is, its too perfect a deal, if it has and legs.

Something tells me if Theo could land Shelby Miller for Castro he would then trade Shark for a bunch of prospects and have yet another hole in the rotation for the sake of accumulating more prospects.


CHAMPS!!!

 

[KBIB]

Or conversely if Olt makes it back you have room for him now instead of having basically no where for him.

I have no idea why people are sleeping on Olt. This guy was a highly ranked prospect before his eye issues and if he corrected this problem, hes a pretty damn good prospect. This guys as close to Scott Rolen as the Cubs are gonna get. If it means moving Bryant to the outfield, well, that's one less hole for Theo to trade away players for more prospects for. I like the way Theos been building this team, but enoughs enough already.


CHAMPS!!!

 

[beckdawg]

I have no idea why people are sleeping on Olt. This guy was a highly ranked prospect before his eye issues and if he corrected this problem, hes a pretty damn good prospect. This guys as close to Scott Rolen as the Cubs are gonna get. If it means moving Bryant to the outfield, well, that's one less hole for Theo to trade away players for more prospects for. I like the way Theos been building this team, but enoughs enough already.


CHAMPS!!!

The problem with Olt is at 26 he basically has to come out next year hot or else they wont have anywhere to play him. Alcantara appears to be set to be 2B. Baez can move to 3B or SS if they move on from castro. Bryant can play OF or 3B. But, if you don't move castro then I don't know how you can make Olt work in a lineup assuming everyone makes it.

Honestly, at this point he's probably more trade bait.

 

[patg006]

Makes no sense to trade Castro. This is all smoke.

1. No one including the Cubs know if Baez could truly handle short.

2. You would be selling low. He goes to the Cardinals. You can pencil him as a perennial all star.

3. He actually showed much improvement on D in the second half. Way more solid and way more fundamentally sound. He made some really damn good plays and a couple of incredible ones. He has really good range.

4. I believe it shows a bad precedent to give your young two time all star shortstop a contract then because he has a bad year. Lets ship him off. Players need trust and other players would see that.

5. It is partly Cubs FO and management that made Castro bad. They tried to stick a square peg in a round hole. Not every fucking player has to be a .370 or more OBP guy. Lets Castro flow and see if he learns with experience. Don't change him into something he is not.

Also, I find it ridiculous that every trade rumor is about our "core" players according to Theo last year now they are expandable. Shark, Castro, Castillo.

^

Let's also remember the Score is full of over-zealous white sox fans who hate the cubs, and the callers are twice as dumb. Rosenbloom is one of the few guys I can stand, because he's at least objective.

I heard one of the geniuses about a year ago say the cubs should trade Castro "because he will never have a chance to win in Chicago."

 

[Franko725]

I was listening when the comment was made, and at no point Bernstein say that the Cubs were looking to trade Castro. What he said was that there were reports out of St. Louis that the Cards were interested in Castro. There is a big difference in a team being interested in a player (and with that player being Castro, I would say that their are many teams interested), and the team that has that player being interested in trading him.

All of that being said, if the Cards would call and offer a good package for Castro, the Cubs would be nuts not to at least consider it. Considering that it is a divisional rival, it would have to be a damn good package though.

 

[CSF77]

The thing is, its too perfect a deal, if it has and legs.

Something tells me if Theo could land Shelby Miller for Castro he would then trade Shark for a bunch of prospects and have yet another hole in the rotation for the sake of accumulating more prospects.


CHAMPS!!!

If they got Miller then I would try to trade Shark for Tyler Skaggs in Azl.

Gives a rotation with Miller, Wood, Arreta, Skaggs, Jackson. Miller 23 YO/ Skaggs a year younger. So plenty of growth potential and millage to go. Good core to work together.

Start of the year would be shakey with Olt at 3B and I would put Iowa's SS/2B combo of Murphy and Watkins out there with Baez and Alcantara at AAA finishing up. I would expect Villenueva at 3B in Iowa and Bryant at Tenn. It gives Olt a full year to develop at 3B and build up some trade value.

At least it would be a starting point. Edwards would be at AA with Pierce Johnson. Hendricks could have a shot at the rotation also (1% becoming Maddux like/99% chance of being another Casey Coleman IMO). Over all something to build. By 2015 this team could start to look like a team with a chance.

 

[CSF77]

I was listening when the comment was made, and at no point Bernstein say that the Cubs were looking to trade Castro. What he said was that there were reports out of St. Louis that the Cards were interested in Castro. There is a big difference in a team being interested in a player (and with that player being Castro, I would say that their are many teams interested), and the team that has that player being interested in trading him.

All of that being said, if the Cards would call and offer a good package for Castro, the Cubs would be nuts not to at least consider it. Considering that it is a divisional rival, it would have to be a damn good package though.

I believe Miller would be a solid return for Castro. First full year 15-9 3.06 ERA 1.21 WHIP 3.67 FIP 23.4% SO rate with a 7.9% BB rate. .280 BABIP. He would be the top starter on the team next year off of those numbers.