How 'bout that Stoudemire?

[TheStig]

I can only get behind Lee if your gonna sign someone like ***. If its a cheap plan B then it makes 2010 a tease. At that point I'd rather take Amare because he is a top 10 player when he is on and will always be tradeable as a big name.

 

[Shakes]

I agree, we should be looking to spend all our space. Spending some of it on a less than max guy then not using the rest would suck.

If we strike out, then spend none of it to go for Melo next year I'd reluctantly be on board for that too.

 

[Fred]

Would you rather have Amare on a max deal or David Lee for 10 million per year? I'd take Lee.

 

[TheStig]

Fred wrote:

Would you rather have Amare on a max deal or David Lee for 10 million per year? I'd take Lee.

No way, Lee's stats are inflated. At best he would be about a 15 and 10 guy here. We already have rebounders and defenders in Deng and Noah, we will also have asik coming over at some point. Amare fits a direct need. He is an efficent scoring beast who gets to the line. You need a second guy to take the pressure off rose offensively and if we have a motivated Amare, he is a better defender than Lee. Look at what he did to a prime TD in the playoffs, I will happily take a chance on a guy that has top 10 talent and ability over another hustle guy. Lee will also get more than 10 ( probably around 12 in a deal similar to bgs or dengs) and Amare won't get a max deal (near max probably 6/100 or 5/85). If all we get out of 2010 is David fucking lee, we will never get out of the second round. Amare maybe overpaid at a near max deal but he gives us the best chance of winning outside of the big 3. The only reason I hesitate is because he has the lowest floor too.

 

[houheffna]

Would you rather have Amare on a max deal or David Lee for 10 million per year? I'd take Lee.

I would rather have Lee too. Lee would do very well with Rose, he is a different offensive player from Noah, he is a more skilled player on that side of the court. Paying Amare max money would be a huge mistake I believe but David Lee at 10 mil would be a pretty good bargain...

Look at what he did to a prime TD in the playoffs, I will happily take a chance on a guy that has top 10 talent and ability over another hustle guy.

the guy that dominated TD in the playoffs no longer exists...post-surgery, STAT is not that player anymore...if you are willing to pay max money expecting THAT Amare, you are wasting money and time...

 

[Shakes]

Fred wrote:

Would you rather have Amare on a max deal or David Lee for 10 million per year? I'd take Lee.

If we can get Lee for 10 (which would start at about 8) I'd take him, because we'd have enough room to sign someone like *** too. However I think after making the all-star team it's questionable whether we can get him that cheap.

If Lee wont come cheap enough to sign a really good SG then Amare + spending the MLE the year after is a better bet.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

the guy that dominated TD in the playoffs no longer exists...post-surgery, STAT is not that player anymore...if you are willing to pay max money expecting THAT Amare, you are wasting money and time...

That guy isn't gone. He just shows up and leaves when he wants to. Amare has been great this past month and hasn't really slowed at all because of the injury. That being said, there are definitely question marks about his attitude and long term health but Amare has leaps and bounds more talent than Lee. Adding only another hustle guy will make sure we never make it out of the second round. Amare is a much better, explosive and efficent scorer than Lee. He also draws fouls. Defensively both leave a lot to be desired, the only clear advantage Lee has is rebounding and with Noah and Deng, we are already a good rebounding team, not to mention Amare still gets you 8-9 rebounds a game.

 

[houheffna]

That guy isn't gone. He just shows up and leaves when he wants to. Amare has been great this past month and hasn't really slowed at all because of the injury. That being said, there are definitely question marks about his attitude and long term health but Amare has leaps and bounds more talent than Lee. Adding only another hustle guy will make sure we never make it out of the second round. Amare is a much better, explosive and efficent scorer than Lee. He also draws fouls. Defensively both leave a lot to be desired, the only clear advantage Lee has is rebounding and with Noah and Deng, we are already a good rebounding team, not to mention Amare still gets you 8-9 rebounds a game.

Well, you are the only one on the planet that knows where that guy is...the one that scored 37ppg against Duncan in the playoffs? No.....you want that guy to be there but he is not there. Sorry bruh...that guy was better than Bosh, if he had shown up for 10 seconds people would have recognized it, I would have recognized it.

When I was on Fred and Lewinthal's show before the season started, that was the last thing we talked about. I said to them that if I could get THAT guy, the one that looked like the best frontcourt player in the league at that time...I would be happy. I believe Fred was the one who said that guy is not coming back. And he is absolutely right...

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Well, you are the only one on the planet that knows where that guy is...the one that scored 37ppg against Duncan in the playoffs? No.....you want that guy to be there but he is not there. Sorry bruh...that guy was better than Bosh, if he had shown up for 10 seconds people would have recognized it, I would have recognized it.

When I was on Fred and Lewinthal's show before the season started, that was the last thing we talked about. I said to them that if I could get THAT guy, the one that looked like the best frontcourt player in the league at that time...I would be happy. I believe Fred was the one who said that guy is not coming back. And he is absolutely right...

That guy isn't gone, he is averaging 28 and 8.7 over his last 15. He averaged 30 and 10.7 that playoffs. Him only being a couple of points and boards off should indicate that hes capable of it again. Besides that, he is clearly better than lee. And signing lee for 5/50 is very optimistic and the max for amare is the worst case scenairo. If your scenairo was somewhat finanically moderate, it wouldn't be a 2:1 financial situation more like 1.5:1. And for an extra 5-6 mill per year, I take Amare hands down. Do you really think a team of Rose, Kirk, Deng, Lee and Noah will ever make it out of the second round? Even without that peak post season, Amare has put up 25 and 12 and 23 and 9 in the post season post injury. I think he gives us the best chance to win, even if he is a step slower or whatever you make him out to be.

 

[Shakes]

The problem is you're not making a fair comparison. The team wouldn't be Rose/Kirk/Deng/Lee/Noah vs Rose/Kirk/Deng/Amare/Noah. If we get Lee we'll be able to afford an upgrade to Kirk as well.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

The problem is you're not making a fair comparison. The team wouldn't be Rose/Kirk/Deng/Lee/Noah vs Rose/Kirk/Deng/Amare/Noah. If we get Lee we'll be able to afford an upgrade to Kirk as well.

Who are you going to get with the leftovers? JJ will be too much, same with Wade. Do you really think JR is gonna pay *** 5/60 to get him? If its Morrow and Lee vs Amare, I still take Amare. And then I would beg and beg somemore for Bell to sign for the cash we have left. There aren't really any non max and obtainable sgs that are a significant upgrade.

 

[houheffna]

That guy isn't gone, he is averaging 28 and 8.7 over his last 15. He averaged 30 and 10.7 that playoffs. Him only being a couple of points and boards off should indicate that hes capable of it again. Besides that, he is clearly better than lee. And signing lee for 5/50 is very optimistic and the max for amare is the worst case scenairo. If your scenairo was somewhat finanically moderate, it wouldn't be a 2:1 financial situation more like 1.5:1. And for an extra 5-6 mill per year, I take Amare hands down. Do you really think a team of Rose, Kirk, Deng, Lee and Noah will ever make it out of the second round? Even without that peak post season, Amare has put up 25 and 12 and 23 and 9 in the post season post injury. I think he gives us the best chance to win, even if he is a step slower or whatever you make him out to be.

You changed the question....so you changed the subject. Fred asked a simple question....so everything else you are saying here is not very relevant. Would you rather have Amare for the max or Lee for 10 mil? That is the question...

Yes he is a step slower since microfracture surgery. I am surprised you would doubt that. Doesn't mean he is not an allstar. And the idea of signing Lee for 10 mil is that you get to add someone else with the money that is left...

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

The problem is you're not making a fair comparison. The team wouldn't be Rose/Kirk/Deng/Lee/Noah vs Rose/Kirk/Deng/Amare/Noah. If we get Lee we'll be able to afford an upgrade to Kirk as well.

Who are you going to get with the leftovers? JJ will be too much, same with Wade. Do you really think JR is gonna pay *** 5/60 to get him? If its Morrow and Lee vs Amare, I still take Amare. And then I would beg and beg somemore for Bell to sign for the cash we have left. There aren't really any non max and obtainable sgs that are a significant upgrade.

We don't have to sign them outright, we can use the space to help us in a trade. There's always someone being dumped for expirings, cap space is even better than an expiring contract for those types of deals.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

The problem is you're not making a fair comparison. The team wouldn't be Rose/Kirk/Deng/Lee/Noah vs Rose/Kirk/Deng/Amare/Noah. If we get Lee we'll be able to afford an upgrade to Kirk as well.

Who are you going to get with the leftovers? JJ will be too much, same with Wade. Do you really think JR is gonna pay *** 5/60 to get him? If its Morrow and Lee vs Amare, I still take Amare. And then I would beg and beg somemore for Bell to sign for the cash we have left. There aren't really any non max and obtainable sgs that are a significant upgrade.

We don't have to sign them outright, we can use the space to help us in a trade. There's always someone being dumped for expirings, cap space is even better than an expiring contract for those types of deals.

Oh now its possible. Weren't you arguing with me there won't be quality players dumped? Unless you want Rip, I don't really see any other SG's really available for that kinda price. Even then we couldn't afford lee and Rip and stay under the cap, so we would have to include some outgoing salary.

 

[Dpauley23]

Fred wrote:

Would you rather have Amare on a max deal or David Lee for 10 million per year? I'd take Lee.

Agreed. The problem is Lee will get 13-14 million

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

That guy isn't gone, he is averaging 28 and 8.7 over his last 15. He averaged 30 and 10.7 that playoffs. Him only being a couple of points and boards off should indicate that hes capable of it again. Besides that, he is clearly better than lee. And signing lee for 5/50 is very optimistic and the max for amare is the worst case scenairo. If your scenairo was somewhat finanically moderate, it wouldn't be a 2:1 financial situation more like 1.5:1. And for an extra 5-6 mill per year, I take Amare hands down. Do you really think a team of Rose, Kirk, Deng, Lee and Noah will ever make it out of the second round? Even without that peak post season, Amare has put up 25 and 12 and 23 and 9 in the post season post injury. I think he gives us the best chance to win, even if he is a step slower or whatever you make him out to be.

You changed the question....so you changed the subject. Fred asked a simple question....so everything else you are saying here is not very relevant. Would you rather have Amare for the max or Lee for 10 mil? That is the question...

Yes he is a step slower since microfracture surgery. I am surprised you would doubt that. Doesn't mean he is not an allstar. And the idea of signing Lee for 10 mil is that you get to add someone else with the money that is left...

We are arguing semantics. He may have lost a step but 07/08 post injury he had a year that was almost as good as his preinjury best year. So I don't think he really has lost much or any effectiveness. IF he continues on this roll, he will also have really good numbers this year. He shows up in the playoffs. Freds numbers aren't realistic. They aren't fair. They don't make sense, its a really bad question. Amare's worst case scenairo is the max. He won't get that, he will more likely than not get somewhere between 15 and 18 per. Lee will get 11-13. For 3-5 Mill more per year, I take Amare. Amare isn't getting 20 mill per year.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Oh now its possible. Weren't you arguing with me there won't be quality players dumped? Unless you want Rip, I don't really see any other SG's really available for that kinda price. Even then we couldn't afford lee and Rip and stay under the cap, so we would have to include some outgoing salary.

I'm not saying that we'll get someone good, I'm saying we'll get someone better than Kirk Hinrich.

If we want someone good we need to sit on our space until the deadline. Teams generally dump salary at the deadline once they suck, not during the off-season when they're still trying to sell season tickets. Hard to tell your fans you care about winning when you just gave a guy away.

 

[Shakes]

Heck, with 8 million we could absorb Ben Gordon's contract. That's perhaps the guy who might be available, pity about the history.

Edit: Obviously 8 million doesn't absorb all of Gordon's contract, what I mean is we could S&T the other 3 million and send Detroit the cash for it.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Oh now its possible. Weren't you arguing with me there won't be quality players dumped? Unless you want Rip, I don't really see any other SG's really available for that kinda price. Even then we couldn't afford lee and Rip and stay under the cap, so we would have to include some outgoing salary.

I'm not saying that we'll get someone good, I'm saying we'll get someone better than Kirk Hinrich.

If we want someone good we need to sit on our space until the deadline. Teams generally dump salary at the deadline once they suck, not during the off-season when they're still trying to sell season tickets. Hard to tell your fans you care about winning when you just gave a guy away.

I'd still rather net the highest impact player on that second tier level. He might not give his all during the regular season but he shows up big time in the playoffs and in the end, thats what really matters.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

I'd still rather net the highest impact player on that second tier level. He might not give his all during the regular season but he shows up big time in the playoffs and in the end, thats what really matters.

I'm not really disagreeing, I find it really to be splitting hairs between the two options, much like with Wade or Bosh. I think I'd rank what I'd try for as:

* LeBron
* Wade or Bosh
* Amare or Lee/***

Anything not on that list is a disappointment IMO.