Kush77 wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Wow Kush, I can't agree with you. He is a hell of a scorer but I can't take him above other guys. He doesn't have the awards and recognition others have had. He has 1 mvp. You got guys like Hakeem who lead a bunch of roleplayers to a title, has the same mvp and a couple of dpoys or a guy like shaq or a guy like shaq who was the most dominant player in the league for most of his career. I rank Kobe in the range above Isaih or Drexler, probably about equal with Pip or right above him. But he is out of the top 10. Right around 20. If looking at guys careers, I could pick one guy as a rookie and build a team, I can't pick any perimeter player except MJ and eventually Bron. To me, there is a big gap between MJ and Kobe, there aren't any SG's in between those two but the gap is still significant imo.
We can't use awards as an argument here. He has 1 MVP but you have to look at it more. For the most part he was on a team with Shaq. It's hard to win MVP's when the other guy on the team is also the best player in the league too. During those three years they won Kobe and Shaq were the best 2 players in the league. Doesn't Shaq only have 1 MVP too? A guy like Karl Malone has 2 MVPs but I don't think he deserved either one of them. Jordan should have got it in 1997 and Duncan in 1999. Phil Jackson only has 1 coach of the year and Jerry Sloan has none, so awards can be funny.
I like Hakeem Olajuwon a lot but I'd still take Kobe over him. Kobe in his prime had one of the best scoring seasons ever. 35.4 ppg, 81 points, the 4 straight 50 point games. He's a great scorer and a great player. And saying Olajuwon had a bunch of role players is exaggerating it a bit. Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Mad Max and a couple solid rookies in Sam Cassell and Robert Horry. They were better than just role players. I think Otis Thorpe mad a all-star team once. Then the next year they trade for Clyde Drexler.
But let's be honest. If Jordan doesn't retire the Rockets don't win anything.
Scoring is the most important part of basketball. I don't know why people say "oh he just scores" that can apply to Ben Gordon but Kobe has made all-defensive teams. And I love Pip, but Kobe vs Pip isn't even close. Scottie was the better defender but offensively, especially in the clutch, not even close. And I'm one of the biggest Pippen supporters out there.
Kobe career isn't don either. If he wins another title I don't see how you can argue someone like Olajuwon or Bird. Kobe will have 5 titles and is just a better basketball player overall.
Who is arguing that Scottie Pippen is more clutch than Kobe Bryant? That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
#1. Scottie Pippen was so incredibly non-clutch, that in the biggest game of his life (up to that point), Game 7 of the 1990 Eastern Conference Finals against the Pistons, he told the world that he had a horrible migraine headache, although he never suffered from it again. I've never known anyone who had migraine headaches once...it's usually a chronic condition. I think the proper diagnonsis was, "This is a big game, and I've just sh*t my pants."
#2. Phil Jackson thought so little of Scottie's clutchness that he called for rookie Toni Kukoc to take every big shot in the 93-94 instead of Scottie, culminating in the infamous 1.8 seconds game against the Knicks. Toni Kukoc saved Scottie Pippen's career in Chicago, because if that shot doesn't go in, and we get sweep, Pippen never plays another game for the Bulls. Instead, he had a chance to redeem himself with a great dunk on Ewing in Game six. The Bulls still tried to trade him in that offseason for S. Kemp, but an outraged Seattle season ticket base caused the owner to nix the trade.
#3. In the famous Game 4, Reggie Miller 3 game, Pippen bricked 2 free throws that would have iced Game 4. Watch this pathetic choke job around the 6 minute mark of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_KN52uHfgI
Pippen is one of the greatest defenders of all time, top 5 in my book, but nervous energy helps your d...it hurts your offense. And he is one world class choker. Without Jordan, he would have won nothing.
