How do you feel about pre-ordering games?

[Ares]

I kept repeating myself because I didn't see any argument for why it was a crutch beyond because you said so. You kept going on about charging people for DLC or milking people (that reference to milking was in fact prior to you statement that the rest of your paragraph was not about ME3) hence why I kept telling you the DLC for the ending was free. Either way we can agree to disagree.

Millions of gamers can beta test a game far more effectively than in-house beta testers for the simply reason that we outnumber them considerably. This has been proven in just about every next gen game I have ever played. The coding and programming for games now is far more complex than than it was in the Nintendo or Sega Genesis days. Relying on a handful of beta testers is pretty dumb business these days especially for games with multiplayer.

The onus on you as a consumer is to do your due diligence before you buy. You are basically asking me to wait on a game because you can't be bothered to figure out whether a game is worth a buy or not. I am not being harmed because my priorities are not yours. I prioritize getting the game early and will pay a premium for the right to play it early. I would be harmed if anyone tries to artificially restrict the market for me to get the game as early as possible. You are trying to tell me what I should value which is really not your right.

I am not telling you you shouldn't value getting a bug free game. I am telling you the solution for you is quite simple. When a game comes out, don't buy it right away. Within a matter of weeks of a game's release, all it's flaws if any are usually already on the internet because again gamers are far more efficient at finding issues than developers because we outnumber them. A simple rule of thumb is that by the time the first price drop in a game occurs, you can be fairly confident all the patches to it have been made.

Oh look you repeated the same shit again.... maybe I will agree with you this time.... nope.... still don't.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Oh look you repeated the same shit again.... maybe I will agree with you this time.... nope.... still don't.

Will you agree with him the next time he says it?

 

[Ares]

Will you agree with him the next time he says it?

I am not sure.... I hope he keeps saying it though cause I am sure eventually I will agree with it, the question is simply a matter of how many times he needs to say it.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Remy,

You would be a lot more credible if you had an avatar.

 

[remydat]

No... you don't understand software development and how it ought to be done properly, it is not proper to produce shit software and expect your end users to do all the bug testing of an unfinished product.

Producing shit and having the end users just deal with it and lean on them to help you finish your production is not an evolution it is laziness and profit grabbing taking priority over proper software development practices.

Lol, it is proper as long as the market accepts it. Again, you are trying to tell individual consumers what they should value which is just horseshit. I mean are you a communist or something, lol? This is the free market. This is capitalism.

You guys think this is all on a company like EA? Bullshit. EA's stock price continues to rise because a lot of gamers would much rather get a game 6 months early than wait for EA to get all their ducks in a row. This is the instant gratification generation. You are waxing philosophical for an era of gaming that died a long time ago.

 

[remydat]

Oh look you repeated the same shit again.... maybe I will agree with you this time.... nope.... still don't.

You say that as if your post I responded to wasn't just you repeating the same shit. Yes we are both repeating ourselves. That is how most debates go until someone gives up. Or did I miss an original thought in the last post I responded to?

 

[remydat]

Remy,

You would be a lot more credible if you had an avatar.

**** an avatar. And **** the Undertaker, I will send a cast of crabs after his ass.

 

[Ares]

Lol, it is proper as long as the market accepts it. Again, you are trying to tell individual consumers what they should value which is just horseshit. I mean are you a communist or something, lol? This is the free market. This is capitalism.

You guys think this is all on a company like EA? Bullshit. EA's stock price continues to rise because a lot of gamers would much rather get a game 6 months early than wait for EA to get all their ducks in a row. This is the instant gratification generation. You are waxing philosophical for an era of gaming that died a long time ago.

No I am not telling all consumers what they should value, I am expressing my view on how I think software developers should produce their product.

While you are expressing your view over and over of how you like paying for unfinished shit that you have to bug test for them.

I think you are wrong and possibly mentally handicapped and I feel bad for you.

This is not "an era of gaming that died a long time ago" there are many examples of games being developed and released in a finished state.... do you want me to start naming them so you can feel like more of a fucking Special person?

 

[clonetrooper264]

I believe that pieces of fecal matter have struck the rotating blade cooling device

 

[Ares]

You say that as if your post I responded to wasn't just you repeating the same shit. Yes we are both repeating ourselves. That is how most debates go until someone gives up. Or did I miss an original thought in the last post I responded to?

The difference is you keep repeating Special person babble about how you like to pay for unfinished products.....

Do you like paying for a car that is unfinished when you buy it?

Do you like paying for a meal that is unfinished when you buy it?

Do you like paying for a house that is unfinished when you buy it?

No? Well why do you like paying full price for unfinished software and herald it as an evolution and a step forward?

EDIT:

Guys why wouldn't I want the car 6 months earlier even if it is missing doors and brakes who is that hurting?

Guys why wouldn't I want a meal 6 minutes earlier even if the meat is undercooked and the side dishes are mostly missing?

Guys why wouldn't I want a house 6 months earlier even if it is missing insulation and a roof?

 

[remydat]

You are telling me how developers should produce their product over and over again dude. Again, do you think you have said something in the last few posts that you didn't already say?

Taking fucking forever to release a game is no better a model than releasing a game as soon as possible. There is a reason why a lot of developers that made good games still ended up going fucking bankrupt. They ran their business like mom and pop shops and couldn't stay on schedule or budget.

There is a middle ground between those two extremes and I am simply on one end of that middle ground while I presume you are on the other end. If there are games being released in a finished state then by all means go buy them.

 

[remydat]

The difference is you keep repeating Special person babble about how you like to pay for unfinished products.....

Do you like paying for a car that is unfinished when you buy it?

Do you like paying for a meal that is unfinished when you buy it?

Do you like paying for a house that is unfinished when you buy it?

No? Well why do you like paying full price for unfinished software and herald it as an evolution and a step forward?

EDIT:

Guys why wouldn't I want the car 6 months earlier even if it is missing doors and brakes who is that hurting?

Guys why wouldn't I want a meal 6 minutes earlier even if the meat is undercooked and the side dishes are mostly missing?

Guys why wouldn't I want a house 6 months earlier even if it is missing insulation and a roof?

This logic makes no sense. As I already said, this is not remotely comparable to a car missing doors. It is comparable to a car not having a navigation system ie optional shit that in the grand scheme of things one can live without. Mass Effect 3 for example was a perfectly good game on the day of release despite whatever flaws you may have perceived. Whether you liked the ending or not, you still got 40-50 hours of good gameplay out of it did you not?

Perhaps your argument would make more sense if you identified a game that had such a huge fatal flaw that it is akin to a car without doors because I don't think I have ever played such a game.

P.S. I just got some software updates for Microsoft Office, Java, and a few other software applications on my computer. Motherfuckers, how dare they give me software that requires updating after the fact? Don't they know it's like a car without doors?

 

[MassHavoc]

You are telling me how developers should produce their product over and over again dude. Again, do you think you have said something in the last few posts that you didn't already say?

Taking fucking forever to release a game is no better a model than releasing a game as soon as possible. There is a reason why a lot of developers that made good games still ended up going fucking bankrupt. They ran their business like mom and pop shops and couldn't stay on schedule or budget.

There is a middle ground between those two extremes and I am simply on one end of that middle ground while I presume you are on the other end. If there are games being released in a finished state then by all means go buy them.

I completely disagree. I would much rather a game get delayed for years and years than to pay money for a product that was forced to be released early. Why people get pissed off for delays is beyond me. Who cares, sure you want to play it but it's not like there is nothing else to play. I want the best possible version of what I'm buying. I think people point to blizzard for this type of thing where they only release shit when they know it's solid enough to stand on it's own. But I've only played Diablo 3 of theirs recently so I don't know their real track record, but I believe that they are still linked to activision.

The only possible problem you run into with games that delay release to get things right is if they are in danger of running out of money and not being released. Which to me means that things were mismanaged anyway and the product is proabably not going to be as good as advertised and if they release it to get it out the door you're in the same boat of an unfinished product being released.

 

[remydat]

If there are developers that take their time then you can go buy from them. If there are developers that prioritize getting a game to me when it is substantially complete then I can go buy from them.

If Blizzard wants to take a while to release a game, I am not going to hate on them for it whether I like it or not. That is their business model and their business decision and in the end they will have to answer to their target audience for that decision. If I have a problem with that then I simply don't buy their games or more than likely I lose interest in their games by the time they eventually come out which is probably why I have never played Diablo.

The same is true of EA. If there business model is to get games to market sooner then that is their business model and their business decision and they will have to answer to their target audience. Considering their stock price has gone up quite a bit, clearly that model is working for them whether you or I like it or not. If I have a problem with them allegedly rushing things to market then I should respond by not buying their games or simply waiting until I feel comfortable the game is bug free. But there really is no logical reason for them to change a business model that is obviously working quite well for them when the market does not appear to demand such a change but in fact seems to approve of their business practices.

 

[botfly10]

but the market does demand it. Did you miss the year EA had in 2013?

 

[remydat]

Last 57.6250
Change Increased by 0.0750
Bid 57.62
Bid Tick Indicator -
Ask 57.63
Day High 57.81
Day Low 57.14
Volume 3,351,851.00
52 Week Hi 57.90
52 Week Low 26.64

Their stock price had a 52 Week low fo 26.64 and a high of 57.90. It's currently at 57.6250. So their stock price has more than doubled within the last year. Do you think they magically changed business practices because all I have heard in this thread is that they continue to do the same things they have always done.

 

[ijustposthere]

I have to say, I was fully unaware of this being such a hot button gaming issue. Most games, I don't pre-order, and especially not from EA. As I said before, is this a problem with devs that get high marks in the gaming community? Putting out unfinished products? I know EA has gotten slammed, so has Activision, for doing this, but how often does it happen outside of those giants?

 

[remydat]

Well it's definitely more of an issue with the publicly traded game developers I would say. At the end of the day, they have shareholders they need to keep happy and they can't just sit there and let developers release games whenever they want particularly when developers are pretty bad at keeping shit on schedule and on budget.

The private game developers have more leeway depending on the mood and attitudes of their private owners but I would say in general it also depends on the type of game it is. I would say any game with a heavy multiplayer aspect is likely to be more buggy given the complexity involved there.

I mean I love Destiny but that thing has probably gone through like 20 or more patches/updates it seems and there are still a lot of glitches in that game especially in the Raids. I probably pushed the Templar or Atheon off the ledge like 100 times before they fixed that glitch. I will also say a lot of this is the nature of gamers today as there is a whole industry that has sprung up to find stuff like this to exploit whereas in the past when gaming was a bit more casual and not the business it is now, some of these issues would not have been found and then broadcasted all over the internet.

 

[MassHavoc]

How would you feel if you pre-ordered a game like Evolve and they release about $60 of DLC along with the game you already paid $60 months ago. I don't believe all the DLC comes with the pre-orders, but I think a few may.

To me it goes along with the collectors edition shit where they give you extra DLC for buying it and spending $30-50 more.

 

[ijustposthere]

How would you feel if you pre-ordered a game like Evolve and they release about $60 of DLC along with the game you already paid $60 months ago. I don't believe all the DLC comes with the pre-orders, but I think a few may.

To me it goes along with the collectors edition shit where they give you extra DLC for buying it and spending $30-50 more.

I've never seen a collector's edition that gives extra DLC. Every one I've seen has the same extra game content as a regular pre-order, but you usually get a steel book and some kind of statue or something. A few are starting to throw in season passes, but the DLC that comes with the collector's editions is always the same for the games I've seen.