How the peanuts looking?

[knoxville7]

So players are no longer responsible for performing anymore? Got it.

They are

However, what players that were on last years team are performing better this year??? I’ll wait.

But I guess you just think it’s normal that all of the players on this years team would perform worse than they did last year on the cubs?? Got it!

Doesn’t seem like Counsell actually is putting his players in the best position to succeed

 

[Icculus]

My penis is magnificent thank you very much OP. Your ex-gf and mom showered it with tremendous compliments before slathering it with their saliva.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

So players are no longer responsible for performing anymore? Got it.

Certainly they are. I don't blame counsell for a team with a shitty roster being bad. I'm also not going to say counsell is making the right moves when the team is awful...

 

[cameronkrazie86]

So players are no longer responsible for performing anymore? Got it.

If you say he's putting players in the right position but they keep sucking, how exactly is he putting them in the right position and doing it well? I truly don't understand.

 

[Diehardfan]

**** a Craig Counsel. Rossy could do better.

He certainly couldn't do any worse. But this in not on Counsel....he's a good manager that was put in a horrible situation by a boneheaded GM that barely touched a bullpen that was one of the prime reasons the ship sunk last year. He fired a manager (Ross) that the players loved, played hard for and more importantly respected.....but IMOP, the way he did it has caused problems that we're not hearing much about. Literally days after pumping up Ross by saying he did a real good job...he dumps him and wags $40 million dollars under Counsel's nose. I could be right or wrong about this but if it was me playing...I'd have to question the honesty of my front office. They just sold out their guy.

I've been saying this for a long time....Jed Hoyer is not good at what he does.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

He certainly couldn't do any worse. But this in not on Counsel....he's a good manager that was put in a horrible situation by a boneheaded GM that barely touched a bullpen that was one of the prime reasons the ship sunk last year. He fired a manager (Ross) that the players loved, played hard for and more importantly respected.....but IMOP, the way he did it has caused problems that we're not hearing much about. Literally days after pumping up Ross by saying he did a real good job...he dumps him and wags $40 million dollars under Counsel's nose. I could be right or wrong about this but if it was me playing...I'd have to question the honesty of my front office. They just sold out their guy.

I've been saying this for a long time....Jed Hoyer is not good at what he does.

I am starting to believe you're right here. Counsell is definitely not the issue here. We have 0 players with an OPS above 800 and most good offenses have 2-3 of them.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

If you say he's putting players in the right position but they keep sucking, how exactly is he putting them in the right position and doing it well? I truly don't understand.

So when the Theo core starting sucking was that because Maddon suddenly forgot how to put players in matchup wise?

Blaming the manager is an easy and lazy cop out. The players suck, it is really the issue here.

 

[cameronkrazie86]

So when the Theo core starting sucking was that because Maddon suddenly forgot how to put players in matchup wise?

Blaming the manager is an easy and lazy cop out. The players suck, it is really the issue here.

I have no problem with an argument saying the players suck. I think Jed Hoyer is terrible and the biggest culprit for the Cubs struggles this season.

With that said, I just completely disagree about saying CC is 'putting them in the right position and doing well' which was my entire point of contention. I don't know how you can say he's 'doing well' when somehow seemingly every player has regressed.

The Cubs are a mess and no one should be spared from criticism.

 

[bears5150]

I have no problem with Counsel he left a good team and that manager is reaping the benefits. My problem is someone thought this Cubs lineup was close enough to add a good manager to put them over the top. There is nobody on this roster for me that is a must keep. But they have to get rid of some of these guys, Happ, Morel, let Belli walk and bring in some much better talent.

 

[knoxville7]

So when the Theo core starting sucking was that because Maddon suddenly forgot how to put players in matchup wise?

Blaming the manager is an easy and lazy cop out. The players suck, it is really the issue here.

gee, what ended up happening to Maddon once the players started sucking? oh! thats right! he got the axe!

The young guys became vets and stopped listening to Joe and then things fell apart, and they moved on from Joe. So yes, the manager was partly to blame as he didnt adjust his delivery to the players as they changed. managing players and their personalities is just as important as managing the game

 

[zack54attack]

I get the injuries. But the bullpen was a question mark for me going into the year. It's still a MAJOR problem.

I would have liked another bat/solid defensive guy at the corners (Chapman). I liked the Busch trade and still want to give him a chance. But just re-signing Bellinger and hoping to ride a hot streak they had last year looks blah now.

 

[Diehardfan]

What has happened this year has not been a huge surprise....this team was paper thin going in, then got hit with injuries. What scares me is the goof that put this mess together is still in charge. Twinkle Toes Ricketts won't dump him....so it's anybody's guess what Hoyer will do at the deadline. I mean he was blind to fact that his bullpen was a disaster, plugged players into new positions and didn't recognize that he got a career year out of his 37 yr old starting catcher in 23. Is this the guy the Cubs want to reorganize this team?

 

[knoxville7]

I get the injuries. But the bullpen was a question mark for me going into the year. It's still a MAJOR problem.

I would have liked another bat/solid defensive guy at the corners (Chapman). I liked the Busch trade and still want to give him a chance. But just re-signing Bellinger and hoping to ride a hot streak they had last year looks blah now.

agreed on everything but Chapman. Giving a big contract to an aging 3B that no longer hits was not the move to make

 

[zack54attack]

agreed on everything but Chapman. Giving a big contract to an aging 3B that no longer hits was not the move to make

My thing is, they could afford that though. He's a upgrade defensively there and arguably offensively. Overall would have been 6-7th on Cubs in payroll, AAV probably 4th or 5th.

I'm not saying they are super cheap all the time but sometimes I feel like they play a "small market" mentality.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I have no problem with an argument saying the players suck. I think Jed Hoyer is terrible and the biggest culprit for the Cubs struggles this season.

With that said, I just completely disagree about saying CC is 'putting them in the right position and doing well' which was my entire point of contention. I don't know how you can say he's 'doing well' when somehow seemingly every player has regressed.

The Cubs are a mess and no one should be spared from criticism.

Ok then tell me what he could be doing differently to make people hit and make pitchers get outs.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

gee, what ended up happening to Maddon once the players started sucking? oh! thats right! he got the axe!

The young guys became vets and stopped listening to Joe and then things fell apart, and they moved on from Joe. So yes, the manager was partly to blame as he didnt adjust his delivery to the players as they changed. managing players and their personalities is just as important as managing the game

Except they have gone to different teams and different managers, and all of them have regressed more.

I think this board is drunk on how much a manager can do. It isn't realistic.

 

[knoxville7]

Except they have gone to different teams and different managers, and all of them have regressed more.

I think this board is drunk on how much a manager can do. It isn't realistic.

so if a manager is suuuuuuper limited in the impact they can have....whats the point in paying counsell damn near twice as much as the next highest paid manager in the sport?!?!

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Ok then tell me what he could be doing differently to make people hit and make pitchers get outs.

There's the simple solution of he could use guys who have been more effective during the late innings and see if they do better than the guys who have failed repeatedly. So hodge and Miller. The lineup doesn't have much hope but leading off wisdom back to back games was really bad. I would say bury Morel too but the whole lineup is pathetic

 

[JP Hochbaum]

so if a manager is suuuuuuper limited in the impact they can have....whats the point in paying counsell damn near twice as much as the next highest paid manager in the sport?!?!

I never said they aren't impactful. I said their job is to put people in the right position by looking at the metrics, and letting data dictate their moves. Many managers are better at this than most, and it shows.

 

[knoxville7]

My thing is, they could afford that though. He's a upgrade defensively there and arguably offensively. Overall would have been 6-7th on Cubs in payroll, AAV probably 4th or 5th.

I'm not saying they are super cheap all the time but sometimes I feel like they play a "small market" mentality.

its not so much about if they can afford him or not. its more about how will that contract look a couple years from now? will that contract be impeding upon our ability to augment the roster once it is time to actually compete?

i dont personally care for giving aging players long contracts, they almost always end up being an albatross down the road