How Will The Younger Generation Vote In 2012?

R K

Guest
What about all of us that paid off our student loans on our own with absolutely zero help from the Fed? Hell, I paid two loans off in full.



Your fucked Trev. Should have gone the loan route.
 

Shantz My Pants

New member
Joined:
Dec 10, 2014
Posts:
3,923
Liked Posts:
787
What about all of us that paid off our student loans on our own with absolutely zero help from the Fed? Hell, I paid two loans off in full.



Your fucked Trev. Should have gone the loan route.



No kidding.



I know Paul is in the group who took out loans I believe, and I'm not trying to bring down anybody. I have a car payment that I HAVE been paying off and the taxes. Can the gov. for give my car loan?
 

BlackHawkPaul

Fartbarf
Donator
Joined:
Sep 28, 2010
Posts:
5,997
Liked Posts:
2,338
Location:
Somewhere in Indiana
No kidding.



I know Paul is in the group who took out loans I believe, and I'm not trying to bring down anybody. I have a car payment that I HAVE been paying off and the taxes. Can the gov. for give my car loan?

It's the same thing with the 8K tax credit. Marcy and I would have never been able to buy a home- even with the market crashing, and we still put 27K of our own money as a 20% down payment. My fear was having enough left as an emergency fund just in case there were hidden expenses-- and there were.



I would have never been able to afford grad school-- and when the loans come due, it will be like a second mortgage. I do agree with RK and you that there should be some sort of program that rewards those that paid off their loans responsibly-- but then again tuition keeps skyrocketing at record paces.



Hell, I was amazed that we could refinance. Knocked out both of our cars and are now saving about 550 a month-- and I couldn't use Marcy as a source of income due to the extended length of her unemployment (she's been working part time for about 6 months- banks won't look at her income until 24 months in if she's PT).
 

R K

Guest
And you bring up another excellent point of tuition sky rocketing as it has. Are you kidding me? Is the education recieved that much better than it was say 20 years ago? Inflation is one thing but these numbers are just really crazy. Having a son entering college soon I am quite shocked about the cost. Especially knowing the job market in many fields some are recieving an education in.



It's a very aggrivating set of circumstances all the way around. Although I still firmly believe in fiscal responsibility. You take the loans, you pay for them. If you forsee a hard time finding a job in what ever field you are going to study, change your field. Or don't take the loan.
 

Shantz My Pants

New member
Joined:
Dec 10, 2014
Posts:
3,923
Liked Posts:
787
I guess we are all lose in the long run. It's just a shitty time to be a student/homeowner among other things.
 

Tater

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
13,392
Liked Posts:
5,207
And you bring up another excellent point of tuition sky rocketing as it has. Are you kidding me? Is the education recieved that much better than it was say 20 years ago? Inflation is one thing but these numbers are just really crazy. Having a son entering college soon I am quite shocked about the cost. Especially knowing the job market in many fields some are recieving an education in.



It's a very aggrivating set of circumstances all the way around. Although I still firmly believe in fiscal responsibility. You take the loans, you pay for them. If you forsee a hard time finding a job in what ever field you are going to study, change your field. Or don't take the loan.



This is boggling. With all of the online courses and degrees out there, costs should be lower unless colleges can't figure out how to reduce costs or feel they just HAVE to spend their gov't grants even if not needed.

With all the hate, disgust and protest against banks and their fees, why do universities escape any criticism?

Like you said above in bold...
 

jaxhawksfan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
2,490
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Back in Jax
And you bring up another excellent point of tuition sky rocketing as it has. Are you kidding me? Is the education recieved that much better than it was say 20 years ago? Inflation is one thing but these numbers are just really crazy. Having a son entering college soon I am quite shocked about the cost. Especially knowing the job market in many fields some are recieving an education in.



It's a very aggrivating set of circumstances all the way around. Although I still firmly believe in fiscal responsibility. You take the loans, you pay for them. If you forsee a hard time finding a job in what ever field you are going to study, change your field. Or don't take the loan.



Isn't this the same with all debt? You get a pat on the back for paying your student loans. Apperently your education helped you make the money to do that. What about the others who have a piece of paper that hasn't done squat for their earnings? Taking on student loan debt in the 80's sure as hell wasn't what one would consider foolhardy. Taking on student loan debt in today's job market may not be the best decision. You can't paint all situations with the same brush. Like you said, the cost/benefit analysis of college nowadays is way out of whack. A college degree is less likely to provide you with a job today than it was 20 years ago.
 

R K

Guest
Not sure where I painted anything with the same brush? I specifically separated 20 years ago from today. And it was most definitely about decisions then as well. Different circumstances sure, depending on what the student was specializing in. Just like I will advise my future student BEFORE he takes on such debt.



And I wasn't fortunate, I adapted my skill set. Which is why I found a job having zero to do with the funamental scope of my studies. That alone enabled me to not only pay off two student loans, but get us through some very difficult financial times. I would have worked at McDonalds if I had too. Something I'm not sure most of these 'recent Grads" have even tried, are capable of, or would attempt.
 

jaxhawksfan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
2,490
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Back in Jax
I see where you are coming from. As far as grads today I have no idea. I've tried getting jobs at Burger King, delivering pizza, etc. during my times of unemployment only to hear "You are too qualified for this. As soon as you find a better job you will leave." Well duh! I didn't know those types of jobs were meant to be "lifers." I am kinda torn on the subject of student loans actually. I have $40k over my head that has only grown throughout the years instead of shrunk. Because of the dates surrounding my loans, my interest rate is about double what the current rates are and there is nothing that can be done about that. In the 16 years since my graduation there have been times of deferment, forebearance and payments all giving me nothing but more debt than I had at the beginning. While this is no astronomical amount of money (cost of a new car for some) it does put a huge financial strain on someone making between $20k-$30K/year. I remember when we used to have arguments on the boards about countries where education was paid for by taxes. I don't think I like that idea completely. However no matter how you slice things in our country, when a bill goes unpaid it is the collective that pays it, either through tax dollars or higher prices for things.
 

R K

Guest
And if I were strapped with loans, with no way out from under, after exhausting all avenues, I'd most certainly seek assistance. Wouldn't like it, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
 

jaxhawksfan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
2,490
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Back in Jax
And if I were strapped with loans, with no way out from under, after exhausting all avenues, I'd most certainly seek assistance. Wouldn't like it, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.



That's my only point really. I make the mistake often in life by saying "I did it. So can so and so....." Every single one of us has a different life experience.
 

BlackHawkPaul

Fartbarf
Donator
Joined:
Sep 28, 2010
Posts:
5,997
Liked Posts:
2,338
Location:
Somewhere in Indiana
...which is why I refinanced.

The cloud of student loan repayment is just over the horizon for me-- June 2013 to be exact. I'm freeing up $$ so I can pay them back. I also made sure that the market has ample work for my skill set. If some one racks up 50K in loans for Asian Basket Weaving, they have no one to blame but themselves. My wife graduated from Columbia College in Chicago with a painting/drawing degree. She's damn good at it, but this economy is not being kind to people in her field--so she's getting certified in GIS mapping--which has some decent opportunities.



I think what young students need to realize when they rack up debt (or even begin schooling) is that no one owes them a damn thing when they graduate from college or grad school. As I near closer to becoming an educator I'm finding out that some students think an A comes easy, and the degree is even easier. The system shock can be interesting to behold.
 

jakobeast

New member
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
3,903
Liked Posts:
21
Location:
yer ma's pants
As far as tuition out pacing inflation and other matters its simple really.



The universities and such can charge that much cause the money is there.



They know people will put themselves in debt, that the students will get the loans, from the government or wherever, and pay whatever they ask. Plain and simple.



If I knew I could get 5 dollars from some asshat just by saying I want 5 bucks, why wouldn't I?
 

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
17,853
Liked Posts:
2,553
So, let me guess-- votes will be wasted if young people don't vote logically-- you know, for the GOP.



- Creating a limited student debt forgiveness program: It would be impractical and foolhardy to create complete debt amnesty. Instead, erase all federal student debt for those with more than $30,000 in federal student loan debt and cut the bill by 10 percent for those with debts under that threshold. That still leaves students accountable – no free rides – but it eases the crushing burden on millions of millenials. H.Res. 365 by Rep. Hansen Clark (D-MI) was a well-intentioned (albeit pie-in-the-sky) call for debt relief and it’s a good starting point for future efforts.



I believe Bush signed a program like this into law while he was in office. The only difference is that you have to be employed by a non-profit for 10 years while paying off your student loans. I believe the 30,000 is the same, but you can stretch out the payments for 25 years (to lower your payment), and after a decade, they are forgiven.
non-profit. Government. Social work. Education. And there are some stipulations but its full loan forgiveness after 10 years of on time full payments. Wife is starting year one and we have to file the taxes separately to try to get her loan payments manageable. I hope in 10 years we will be able to claim it.
 

jaxhawksfan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
2,490
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Back in Jax
As far as tuition out pacing inflation and other matters its simple really.



The universities and such can charge that much cause the money is there.



They know people will put themselves in debt, that the students will get the loans, from the government or wherever, and pay whatever they ask. Plain and simple.



If I knew I could get 5 dollars from some asshat just by saying I want 5 bucks, why wouldn't I?



Very strong point, and it doesn't apply strictly to universities. This rule applies everywhere. People will charge what the market will bear. Problem is: People are fucking stupid and pay ten times the true "value" of things. Housing market ring a bell?
 

BigPete

New member
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
5,010
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Belleville, IL
I think what young students need to realize when they rack up debt (or even begin schooling) is that no one owes them a damn thing when they graduate from college or grad school. As I near closer to becoming an educator I'm finding out that some students think an A comes easy, and the degree is even easier. The system shock can be interesting to behold.

This is what most anti-OWS types don't understand; it is not 10,000 jobless recent grads individually complaining about their predicament. It is rather a collection of 10,000 of those people complaining that there are 10,000 people in the same boat. In other words they are complaining that their issue is becoming a pandemic problem and affecting so many right now....So, what can be done from a national policy standpoint to alleviate that pressure? These OWS people are not all a bunch of idiot hippies. The movement was born from many people realizing that many people are facing the same problem. MASSIVE debt with no ability to pay it off. They didn't plan poorly, they didn't underestimate the risk they were taking. They might have been pushed into this model of institutionalized learning accompanied with future debt, but they still knew it was happening. What CHANGED is the job market. Too many people going to school, because the schools do a really good job marketing their service, and now not enough jobs to support those newly graduated.



This comment is much more germain to the conversation: The schools are raising tution to ridiculous levels because the states are cutting off funding sources that had overflowed with money during the good years of the wartime, tech, and housing booms. Blame the university chancellors who couldn't see past their noses to realize that the meteroic rise in the economy wasn't going to last forever. They should not have been racheting up salaries and buying all kinds of new things for the university on credit. Those bills are coming due, those salaries are not going to reverse (because that almost never happens in America, layoffs happen instead). Now there is little to no state assistance to foot the bills. The schools fooled themselves into thinking the state funding would always be there. Now states like Illinois are saying, "you really are a for profit business, who are you kidding. Plan your budgets better and don't live off the social teet!"



As for those that think online courses should lower institutions's logistical costs conveniently ignore the costs of running an IT infrastructure that can support online courses. IT is NOT cheaper. The only saving is that one full time professor can now manage an extra class or two because they really can be in two places at once now...but they are stupid for doing it because they are getting paid the same to do more work.
 

IceHogsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
5,024
Liked Posts:
0
So, maybe the bigger question is, why is a college education so expensive even with the invention of the internet and technology and the money being pumped into collegiate sports?



College and universities certainly do not appear to have been hurt by the downturn in our economy. Wouldn't you love to see the foundations and endowments set up on behalf of said institutions?
 

supraman

New member
Joined:
May 16, 2010
Posts:
8,024
Liked Posts:
196
Location:
St.Pete, FL
This is what most anti-OWS types don't understand; it is not 10,000 jobless recent grads individually complaining about their predicament. It is rather a collection of 10,000 of those people complaining that there are 10,000 people in the same boat. In other words they are complaining that their issue is becoming a pandemic problem and affecting so many right now....So, what can be done from a national policy standpoint to alleviate that pressure? These OWS people are not all a bunch of idiot hippies. The movement was born from many people realizing that many people are facing the same problem. MASSIVE debt with no ability to pay it off. They didn't plan poorly, they didn't underestimate the risk they were taking. They might have been pushed into this model of institutionalized learning accompanied with future debt, but they still knew it was happening. What CHANGED is the job market. Too many people going to school, because the schools do a really good job marketing their service, and now not enough jobs to support those newly graduated.



This comment is much more germain to the conversation: The schools are raising tution to ridiculous levels because the states are cutting off funding sources that had overflowed with money during the good years of the wartime, tech, and housing booms. Blame the university chancellors who couldn't see past their noses to realize that the meteroic rise in the economy wasn't going to last forever. They should not have been racheting up salaries and buying all kinds of new things for the university on credit. Those bills are coming due, those salaries are not going to reverse (because that almost never happens in America, layoffs happen instead). Now there is little to no state assistance to foot the bills. The schools fooled themselves into thinking the state funding would always be there. Now states like Illinois are saying, "you really are a for profit business, who are you kidding. Plan your budgets better and don't live off the social teet!"



As for those that think online courses should lower institutions's logistical costs conveniently ignore the costs of running an IT infrastructure that can support online courses. IT is NOT cheaper. The only saving is that one full time professor can now manage an extra class or two because they really can be in two places at once now...but they are stupid for doing it because they are getting paid the same to do more work.



The whole student debt thing is ridiculous. They entered an agreement. Why should they be let out of their end of the bargain. It is called responsibility. I mean if they are going to let them out of student loans, let me out of my car payment, let me out of my credit card debit. I mean that's only fair.



Less protection of the stupid, please
 

IceHogsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
5,024
Liked Posts:
0
The whole student debt thing is ridiculous. They entered an agreement. Why should they be let out of their end of the bargain. It is called responsibility. I mean if they are going to let them out of student loans, let me out of my car payment, let me out of my credit card debit. I mean that's only fair.



IF the government were to be involved in the assistance of subsidizing college educations, and that is a big IF from me, I would rather see them assist in the cost in certain academics such as the cost of educating a general practioner. I don't think it is appropriate to reward others after the fact based upon their cirumstances at the time.
 

jaxhawksfan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
2,490
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Back in Jax
This is what most anti-OWS types don't understand; it is not 10,000 jobless recent grads individually complaining about their predicament. It is rather a collection of 10,000 of those people complaining that there are 10,000 people in the same boat. In other words they are complaining that their issue is becoming a pandemic problem and affecting so many right now....So, what can be done from a national policy standpoint to alleviate that pressure? These OWS people are not all a bunch of idiot hippies. The movement was born from many people realizing that many people are facing the same problem. MASSIVE debt with no ability to pay it off. They didn't plan poorly, they didn't underestimate the risk they were taking. They might have been pushed into this model of institutionalized learning accompanied with future debt, but they still knew it was happening. What CHANGED is the job market. Too many people going to school, because the schools do a really good job marketing their service, and now not enough jobs to support those newly graduated.



This comment is much more germain to the conversation: The schools are raising tution to ridiculous levels because the states are cutting off funding sources that had overflowed with money during the good years of the wartime, tech, and housing booms. Blame the university chancellors who couldn't see past their noses to realize that the meteroic rise in the economy wasn't going to last forever. They should not have been racheting up salaries and buying all kinds of new things for the university on credit. Those bills are coming due, those salaries are not going to reverse (because that almost never happens in America, layoffs happen instead). Now there is little to no state assistance to foot the bills. The schools fooled themselves into thinking the state funding would always be there. Now states like Illinois are saying, "you really are a for profit business, who are you kidding. Plan your budgets better and don't live off the social teet!"



As for those that think online courses should lower institutions's logistical costs conveniently ignore the costs of running an IT infrastructure that can support online courses. IT is NOT cheaper. The only saving is that one full time professor can now manage an extra class or two because they really can be in two places at once now...but they are stupid for doing it because they are getting paid the same to do more work.



Damn, Pete. Good post that I mostly agree with.



And, as I already pointed out: No matter what kind of bill goes unpaid, student loan, car loan, credit card bill, mortgage, hospital bill.........the collective pays for it whether we want to, or not. I personally think student loans should be included in bankruptcy, especially if they are private loans, not protected by the government.
 

Top