I have to admit (Tony Snell Thread)

[Bear Pride]

I think Tony will continue to play well. You can tell by watching him he's different, he'll get the ball and make a move. He shoots differently....his confidence changed big time and you can tell that if you actually watch the games. Proud of him and glad he's a Bull.

It's hard now to get MCD minutes since Snell had been playing great. There was a stat on espn before the draft that said something like 95% of the shots MCD took in his senior year were contested. And he's one of the most prolific scorers in collegiate history. He won't get his until next year when I believe we let Dunleavy go. I think he'll really come on next year as the 7th guy off the bench.

And when that time comes, I hope we're not looking back and saying "We really could have used that shooting in the 1st round exit against the Cavs". :dunno:

 

[clonetrooper264]

And when that time comes, I hope we're not looking back and saying "We really could have used that shooting in the 1st round exit against the Cavs". :dunno:

Shooting will not be the reason we lose to the Cavs. Unless all of our shooters have their legs broken by Perk...

 

[Bear Pride]

I'm sure you're aware that Niko has also had his struggles this season. There is no magic "play this dude 30 minutes and he'll put up stats" formula. Niko also had a game where he started, played 37 minutes, and only shot 2-10 for 12 points. It's not a 100% correlation = causation thing.

Yeah, but what young player doesn't struggle a lot early on? The best way to overcome that is to get experience and get into a rhythm. We're seeing that now with Tony and Niko. No matter how you say it, players need to get minutes to develop.....period.

It just so happens that the Bulls biggest weakness is shooting, and the best pure shooter on the team is McD. I'm not saying start him or anything, I'm just suggesting that getting 1 minute in a rare blowout is not enough.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yes there was, and what better reason than to hear it from Tony, himself. :dunno:

It's not 100% Thibs was stifling Snell singlehandedly by not giving him minutes. It's not like Thibs is out the ruin players by not giving them minutes. Let's be real here, no one was saying Snell is amazing he should be getting more minutes during December. People were convinced he was a bust at the end of last year even. So yes, he had a short leash, and part of that is on Thibs, but a lot of that was on his poor play too.

 

[Bear Pride]

Shooting will not be the reason we lose to the Cavs. Unless all of our shooters have their legs broken by Perk...

Well, debating with someone that refuses to look at the other side of the debate is a waste of my time. Especially, when they have an answer for everything. I'm rooting for the Bulls, but I do have some concerns about what is going on. We'll see, I guess. :dunno:

 

[Bear Pride]

It's not 100% Thibs was stifling Snell singlehandedly by not giving him minutes. It's not like Thibs is out the ruin players by not giving them minutes. Let's be real here, no one was saying Snell is amazing he should be getting more minutes during December. People were convinced he was a bust at the end of last year even. So yes, he had a short leash, and part of that is on Thibs, but a lot of that was on his poor play too.

Speak for yourself, I was high on Snell when he was drafted, and I've been preaching that Niko get minutes from day 1! I even made a thread in the off season that I thought Niko would give the Bulls as much as Love, and signing Love was NOT necessary!

 

[Bear Pride]

It's not 100% Thibs was stifling Snell singlehandedly by not giving him minutes. It's not like Thibs is out the ruin players by not giving them minutes. Let's be real here, no one was saying Snell is amazing he should be getting more minutes during December. People were convinced he was a bust at the end of last year even. So yes, he had a short leash, and part of that is on Thibs, but a lot of that was on his poor play too.

Proof is in the pudding, man. People questioned Butler, people questioned Tony, people questioned Niko, and now people are questioning McD. How many times does the boy need to cry wolf? :dunno:

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yeah, but what young player doesn't struggle a lot early on? The best way to overcome that is to get experience and get into a rhythm. We're seeing that now with Tony and Niko. No matter how you say it, players need to get minutes to develop.....period.

It just so happens that the Bulls biggest weakness is shooting, and the best pure shooter on the team is McD. I'm not saying start him or anything, I'm just suggesting that getting 1 minute in a rare blowout is not enough.

Yes young players struggle, but this isn't a team where you can just play them 30 minutes a night and tell them to play through it. If this was a young rebuilding team you can do that, but that's not the case here. You don't see San Antonio playing Kyle Anderson 30 minutes a night to help him get in a rhythm. As was said before, having rookies be big contributors for a team that made a deep playoff run is very rare in the NBA. Niko will still gets minutes...he's played in every game. He may come up big in the playoffs for all we know. But playing behind Noah, Pau, and Taj makes it difficult to play him 25 minutes a night.

Again, I want McDermott getting more minutes. I've said that time and time again, you know how I feel about that issue. At the same time, while players do need minutes to develop, there's some stuff they need to figure out outside of games first. Doug's defense is just not there. He doesn't know where to be. He doesn't know how to play defense. I assure you the solution is not just tossing him out there to get smoked for 15 minutes. That doesn't help the team and it doesn't help him, especially when the other team is running the whoever offense on him specifically.

That said, if it were another coach that had an attitude of "hey screw defense, we need lots of 3s right now" perhaps that coach would play McDermott for a few minutes with the green light to jack tons of 3s and maybe he'd look like a good bench spark right now, but then he'd be labelled as one of those guys who gets as many points as he gives up. Thibs is the kind of coach who wants you to be able to prevent that, perhaps to a fault.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Proof is in the pudding, man. People questioned Butler, people questioned Tony, people questioned Niko, and now people are questioning McD. How many times does the boy need to cry wolf? :dunno:

Who questioned Mirotic?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well, debating with someone that refuses to look at the other side of the debate is a waste of my time. Especially, when they have an answer for everything. I'm rooting for the Bulls, but I do have some concerns about what is going on. We'll see, I guess. :dunno:

Our biggest problems are defense and rebounding..that's been the case all season. We're actually shooting 3s decently well. Top 10 in the league in 3pt%. It's not that I can't see the other side, it's that saying shooting is our biggest weakness is not supported by stats. Shooting perhaps is the biggest weakness that this team has if you're running Rose, Hinrich, Butler, Gasol, and Noah all the time like we were last month, but when Dunleavy is playing and with Snell proving you right, that shouldn't be an issue is what I'm getting at.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Lest anyone freak out further I will explicitly say this: Thibs does have issues managing minutes. He has clear weaknesses...I need not hash them out. However, I do think we've seen some subtle improvements (ie Gasol and Butler playing less minutes recently). Thus, he is part of the reason why younger players might struggle and that's an area he could perhaps be less stubborn about, but I get why he does what he does in that case.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I gave you the reason why McD doesn't get minutes. It's not my fault you don't pay attention.

 

[Scoot26]

Shooting will not be the reason we lose to the Cavs. Unless all of our shooters have their legs broken by Perk...

This year, lack of defense would be the cause of losing to the Cavs this year IMO.

In 2011, it was a complete lack of offense in the 4th quarters that killed the Bulls.

Take a look at that series...The Bulls were in every game just about...And usually shot themselves in the foot in the 4th quarters.

Game 1 we actually had 4th quarter offense and blew Miami out of the water.
Game 2, the Bulls were tied 73 all with 6:37 left in the game..the Bulls scored 2 points the rest of the way and lost 85-75.
Game 3, the Bulls were behind all game, cut it to 4 (78-74) with 6:39 left.. but this game you may say the defense failed.. The Final was 96-85.
Game 4, the Bulls and Heat went back and forth constantly in this game. The Bulls pulled ahead 77-74 with 4:48 left.. Carlos Boozer committed a flagrant foul and Miami turned it into a 5 point possession. They kept it close though and Rose went to the line with 1:26 left and the Bulls down 85-84. Rose missed the first, made the second to tie it. Miami missed... Rose missed..LeBron called for offensive foul.. Rose missed again.. Over time. The Bulls had no gas in OT and lost 101-93. I've always pinned this game on Rose.
Game 5, The Bulls have a 76-64 lead with 3:53 left in the game. The Bulls proceed to get outscored 19-4 in the last 3 minutes of the game.

 

[clonetrooper264]

This year, lack of defense would be the cause of losing to the Cavs this year IMO.

In 2011, it was a complete lack of offense in the 4th quarters that killed the Bulls.

Take a look at that series...The Bulls were in every game just about...And usually shot themselves in the foot in the 4th quarters.

Game 1 we actually had 4th quarter offense and blew Miami out of the water.
Game 2, the Bulls were tied 73 all with 6:37 left in the game..the Bulls scored 2 points the rest of the way and lost 85-75.
Game 3, the Bulls were behind all game, cut it to 4 (78-74) with 6:39 left.. but this game you may say the defense failed.. The Final was 96-85.
Game 4, the Bulls and Heat went back and forth constantly in this game. The Bulls pulled ahead 77-74 with 4:48 left.. Carlos Boozer committed a flagrant foul and Miami turned it into a 5 point possession. They kept it close though and Rose went to the line with 1:26 left and the Bulls down 85-84. Rose missed the first, made the second to tie it. Miami missed... Rose missed..LeBron called for offensive foul.. Rose missed again.. Over time. The Bulls had no gas in OT and lost 101-93. I've always pinned this game on Rose.
Game 5, The Bulls have a 76-64 lead with 3:53 left in the game. The Bulls proceed to get outscored 19-4 in the last 3 minutes of the game.

Yeah I don't see similar things happening with the Bulls in a potential series against the Cavs this time around. Our offense is way better than that 2011 team...heck we just try to outscore other teams now. This Cavs team also doesn't have near the defense of that Miami team. It'll come down to how well we can defend Cleveland (specifically Love imo) and if Pau can figure out a way to quit getting bullied by Mozgov...oh and not letting Thompson grab 10 offensive boards.

 

[Scoot26]

Yeah I don't see similar things happening with the Bulls in a potential series against the Cavs this time around. Our offense is way better than that 2011 team...heck we just try to outscore other teams now. This Cavs team also doesn't have near the defense of that Miami team. It'll come down to how well we can defend Cleveland (specifically Love imo) and if Pau can figure out a way to quit getting bullied by Mozgov...oh and not letting Thompson grab 10 offensive boards.

I can see rebounding being a key to that series.

Another thing will be bothering LeBron enough (creating turnovers).. He'll get his points obviously.

Forcing Irving to shoot poorly will be huge too.

The Bulls may lose a game or two alone though from a hot shooting JR Smith./

 

[Undisputed]

Lots of crow to go around with Tony Snell producing big. I am definitely eating my fair share. He is really adapting, and it makes me respect the Bulls scouts, and even Gar/Pax when it comes to drafting. They have made a lot of decisions in the draft that are really setting up the future for the Bulls.

 

[Axl Rose]

lets be honest Doug looked horrible in the minutes he got....it looked like he was in over his head

a game that comes to mind was the Raptor game...Doug came in and it was huge swing in momentum for the Raps

why? because Doug was getting eaten alive by James Johnson

i do think thibs has these young players extra scared to make a mistake though...especially on defense

i also think thats why Nikola pump fakes so much because he's scared to miss and get yanked

 

[The Hawk]

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but this is unacceptable, imo, and Snell should be the shining example of Thib's hurting the teams progress. The Bulls have had a primary need for shooting for years, and Thib's is stunting the development of the very players that can address this weakness. This is ONE good example of what Thib's can do better as a Head coach!

I disagree with this. I think that Thibs is pretty much a genius in how he develops his young players.He didn't hold Snell back at all and neither is he holding McDermott or Mirotic back. He is teaching them discipline and learning what it means to be an NBA player. Thibs has weaknesses as a coach but all of them do but at the same time, the problems with this Bulls team is the fact that management hasn't given him enough to win a title with the last three years.

 

[Diddy1122]

lets be honest Doug looked horrible in the minutes he got....it looked like he was in over his head

a game that comes to mind was the Raptor game...Doug came in and it was huge swing in momentum for the Raps

why? because Doug was getting eaten alive by James Johnson

i do think thibs has these young players extra scared to make a mistake though...especially on defense

i also think thats why Nikola pump fakes so much because he's scared to miss and get yanked

It is all about who Thibs can trust on the floor. You have to earn it. Doug was overplaying on defense & struggling to separate from defenders on offense. Thibs couldn't trust him on the floor. I wholeheartedly agree. If he hadn't gotten injured, things may be a little different but everyone needs to realize he's a garbage time player for the rest of the year. He's Thibs victory cigar.

I don't think Thibs is putting an extra scare into the rookies. Most rookies are nervous in general. They have rookie responsibilities to their teammates. They have new playbooks to digest, new players to study, and new rules to comprehend. They have to do all this while adjusting to the speed & physicality of the NBA. Some rookies get it faster than others. Some players take a bit more time to find their game.

Niko pump fakes because that's a part of his game. He did it a lot in Euroleague as well. He's not doing it because he's scare he'll make a mistake. He's won a Euroleague MVP award. He has all the confidence in the world in his game and it showed from day 1. He's earned Thibs trust. I believe Snell has as well.

 

[Axl Rose]

Niko pump fakes because that's a part of his game. He did it a lot in Euroleague as well. He's not doing it because he's scare he'll make a mistake. He's won a Euroleague MVP award. He has all the confidence in the world in his game and it showed from day 1. He's earned Thibs trust. I believe Snell has as well.

even when he was wide open? sounds like a bad habit