Aesopian
Hooters Waitress
- Joined:
- Jan 6, 2015
- Posts:
- 16,377
- Liked Posts:
- 8,784
- Location:
- Jupiter
My favorite teams
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 7,799
- Liked Posts:
- 6,578
- Location:
- Montgomery, TX
The implication is the 2nd round they got from New England which they used to draft Miller was late enough that it was close to being a third.
- Joined:
- Sep 9, 2012
- Posts:
- 2,027
- Liked Posts:
- 1,608
- Location:
- MSP
If I remember right, the Fox hire was especially noteworthy because the Bears actually don't have a history of hiring coaches with an extensive head coaching background. In effect it was the opposite of the traditional Bears organization.
SpeedRacer
Member
- Joined:
- Mar 15, 2018
- Posts:
- 125
- Liked Posts:
- 89
Hey guys, Fox was essentially hitting the reset button. Any hot young coach would of failed miserably with the garbage dump of a team we had 4 years ago. Needed experience to come in and clean up the stench Trestman left on the field and in the locker room. Pace understood this, and in time has tossed out the rot and added fresh talent. Many see this and hope this translates on the field next fall.
- Joined:
- Aug 17, 2011
- Posts:
- 43,301
- Liked Posts:
- 23,551
- Location:
- Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
You mean the one we would have added a 4th to get to 51 (19th in rnd 2) where we drafted him. Actually, our original 3rd and 4th this year wouldn't be enough.
Mdbearz
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Jan 9, 2014
- Posts:
- 4,519
- Liked Posts:
- 3,133
- Location:
- Harford County, MD
Weather you believe that Pace was hog tied the first 3 years or if you think that he has just learned more, either way THIS off season appears to be his best yet. Plenty of misses for Pace, so those that want to criticize, I will be right there with you.
But overall, the feeling that I get from Pace is that he is aggressive when needed, he appears to be forward thinking, and you just do not know what he might do next.
Last years Drafts felt too cute to me, he moved one spot to get Trubisky, but he got him, and he did not sell the farm to do it. He also drafted a couple of small school guys that were a bit of a risk.
This year, Smith, Daniel and even Miller are safer picks higher floor types.
This year just feels different, and it started with Robinson....
I would like to see this type of off season every year, but that is not possible.
But overall, the feeling that I get from Pace is that he is aggressive when needed, he appears to be forward thinking, and you just do not know what he might do next.
Last years Drafts felt too cute to me, he moved one spot to get Trubisky, but he got him, and he did not sell the farm to do it. He also drafted a couple of small school guys that were a bit of a risk.
This year, Smith, Daniel and even Miller are safer picks higher floor types.
This year just feels different, and it started with Robinson....
I would like to see this type of off season every year, but that is not possible.
dabears70
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Dec 31, 2013
- Posts:
- 35,118
- Liked Posts:
- 10,883
- Location:
- Orlando
My favorite teams
If a homer is being a hard core fan of your team then yes i am a homer and have absolutely no problem with that what so ever. I also criticize where it's needed but it's funny how many of the Pace criticizers have come around on our GM, including you, and some just simply understood how a rebuild works.
Nelly
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Mar 13, 2018
- Posts:
- 7,175
- Liked Posts:
- 8,324
My take on Pace is that he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
- Look at the roster he inherited. Beyond Alshon, Long (injuries) and Fuller (underwhelming and injuries) there were no long-term building blocks on the roster for him to work with. Guys like Forte and Briggs were on their last legs. You had some decent players like Willie Young around here and there. The team for so many years before that was all cobbled together by free agent signings since Angelo and Emery were so bad at drafting before that. The occasional hit was made up for by 5 bad picks before that. Pace was tasked with primarily performing in the draft and had an old team with Cutler in place at QB, at a time when everyone know by then that he wasn't going to take the team anywhere. Combine that with him being young an inexperienced, he had a lot of stuff to change.
- He hired an experienced head coach in John Fox, which is the first that that had ever happened here. Give him props for recognizing that he and the team would benefit more from having a guy around who knew how to run things. He was never a great coach but by all accounts, he's always been a stand-up guy who empowered his coaching staff and always did right by his players. The team needed a culture change after the Trestman disaster and Fox helped get their feet under them, with a bad roster and a whole lot of turnover. Everyone knew he was a temporary stop-gap.
- Pace has brought in some good talent. Such a shame White couldn't stay healthy but he also picked up Goldman and Amos in that draft. The next: Floyd, Whitehair, Bullard, Kwiatkiowski and Howard. Last year: Trubisky, Cohen, Shaheen and Jackson. He's brought in some real talent through the draft, much of it in the later rounds.
- McPhee was a miss, and last year he had to sign a bunch of bums to one year contracts cause people knew Fox was a dead man walking. It was a bunch of stop-gaps cause we were still turning the roster over. He let a bunch of old guys walk again. This year, he's got guys like Allen Robinson really wanting to come play here, among others. We'll see how they all work out but with a roster on the upswing and a promising young QB in the fold, the roster arrow is pointing way up. He's pretty primed to turn probably an overall negative free-agent signing record into a more positive or neutral one.
- Lastly, Nagy is unproven but you've got to love what you've seen so far. His energy, his knowledge, and his humility in how he talks about his other coaches is great. It says a lot about a guy who can convince Vic Fangio to come back. He grabbed Helfrich and he got Childress to come in and help as well. Combine all that with his own knowledge and the early returns look like him and Pace are a nice match and Nagy appears to be a modern NFL coach who can coach a modern NFL offense.
There's been misses along the way but what can you realistically expect? I think if anyone here vehemently hates Pace, thinks he's done a bad job or thinks that the Bears aren't good enough yet are really underestimating the dire situation he took over. Look at teams like the Cubs and the Blackhawks. It takes time and a lot of losing to not only turn a bad roster over but to change the culture and lay the ground work for a sustainable model of winning. I personally can't ask for much more than the Bears have going on right now considering how bad things have been for so long. Pace appears to have a real shot at making us relevant contenders in the NFL for quite a while now and i'm pretty thankful for that. There wasn't much of a reason for me to be talking about the Bears on a message board for a long time before now.
- Look at the roster he inherited. Beyond Alshon, Long (injuries) and Fuller (underwhelming and injuries) there were no long-term building blocks on the roster for him to work with. Guys like Forte and Briggs were on their last legs. You had some decent players like Willie Young around here and there. The team for so many years before that was all cobbled together by free agent signings since Angelo and Emery were so bad at drafting before that. The occasional hit was made up for by 5 bad picks before that. Pace was tasked with primarily performing in the draft and had an old team with Cutler in place at QB, at a time when everyone know by then that he wasn't going to take the team anywhere. Combine that with him being young an inexperienced, he had a lot of stuff to change.
- He hired an experienced head coach in John Fox, which is the first that that had ever happened here. Give him props for recognizing that he and the team would benefit more from having a guy around who knew how to run things. He was never a great coach but by all accounts, he's always been a stand-up guy who empowered his coaching staff and always did right by his players. The team needed a culture change after the Trestman disaster and Fox helped get their feet under them, with a bad roster and a whole lot of turnover. Everyone knew he was a temporary stop-gap.
- Pace has brought in some good talent. Such a shame White couldn't stay healthy but he also picked up Goldman and Amos in that draft. The next: Floyd, Whitehair, Bullard, Kwiatkiowski and Howard. Last year: Trubisky, Cohen, Shaheen and Jackson. He's brought in some real talent through the draft, much of it in the later rounds.
- McPhee was a miss, and last year he had to sign a bunch of bums to one year contracts cause people knew Fox was a dead man walking. It was a bunch of stop-gaps cause we were still turning the roster over. He let a bunch of old guys walk again. This year, he's got guys like Allen Robinson really wanting to come play here, among others. We'll see how they all work out but with a roster on the upswing and a promising young QB in the fold, the roster arrow is pointing way up. He's pretty primed to turn probably an overall negative free-agent signing record into a more positive or neutral one.
- Lastly, Nagy is unproven but you've got to love what you've seen so far. His energy, his knowledge, and his humility in how he talks about his other coaches is great. It says a lot about a guy who can convince Vic Fangio to come back. He grabbed Helfrich and he got Childress to come in and help as well. Combine all that with his own knowledge and the early returns look like him and Pace are a nice match and Nagy appears to be a modern NFL coach who can coach a modern NFL offense.
There's been misses along the way but what can you realistically expect? I think if anyone here vehemently hates Pace, thinks he's done a bad job or thinks that the Bears aren't good enough yet are really underestimating the dire situation he took over. Look at teams like the Cubs and the Blackhawks. It takes time and a lot of losing to not only turn a bad roster over but to change the culture and lay the ground work for a sustainable model of winning. I personally can't ask for much more than the Bears have going on right now considering how bad things have been for so long. Pace appears to have a real shot at making us relevant contenders in the NFL for quite a while now and i'm pretty thankful for that. There wasn't much of a reason for me to be talking about the Bears on a message board for a long time before now.
- Joined:
- Sep 9, 2012
- Posts:
- 2,027
- Liked Posts:
- 1,608
- Location:
- MSP
Wow, that's a lot of text. First off, careful on the comparisons across sports. They don't generally translate.
Other than that, I agree that there are some positive signs. I don't think you can just justify everything away though. The team still doesn't have enough elite talent in spite of three consecutive top 10 draft picks (not counting this year). In my opinion, Pace's first year actually set the rebuild farther back. The team still hasn't won anything. He is on his second coach, and the team is sub 300 since he has been here. I need more time to make a final judgement, and like what I've seen this off-season, but there is a lot of smoke around him that he just might not be that good. The short term will be telling if this thing is going to be able to turn around with him as GM. As far as what can be realistically expected? by year 3, they should have been winning more. That is my expectation. The team agrees, hence the coach getting fired. Maybe it will happen in year 4....
Other than that, I agree that there are some positive signs. I don't think you can just justify everything away though. The team still doesn't have enough elite talent in spite of three consecutive top 10 draft picks (not counting this year). In my opinion, Pace's first year actually set the rebuild farther back. The team still hasn't won anything. He is on his second coach, and the team is sub 300 since he has been here. I need more time to make a final judgement, and like what I've seen this off-season, but there is a lot of smoke around him that he just might not be that good. The short term will be telling if this thing is going to be able to turn around with him as GM. As far as what can be realistically expected? by year 3, they should have been winning more. That is my expectation. The team agrees, hence the coach getting fired. Maybe it will happen in year 4....
Viciousjay
Active member
- Joined:
- Feb 14, 2017
- Posts:
- 969
- Liked Posts:
- 286
dbldrew
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 24, 2012
- Posts:
- 5,766
- Liked Posts:
- 2,446
I think it was the 19th pick in the second round so that is no where near a 3rd round pick
Da Coach
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 2,356
- Liked Posts:
- 1,365
- Location:
- Helena MT
Exactly. Any with any luck well be giving them approximately a similar pick next year in the second - which are generally considered to be a round lower value than the current draft.
To throw in a fourth and get your targeted offensive weapon? Seemed like a solid deal to me
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
To throw in a fourth and get your targeted offensive weapon? Seemed like a solid deal to me
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
- Joined:
- Sep 9, 2012
- Posts:
- 2,027
- Liked Posts:
- 1,608
- Location:
- MSP
It was a good deal based on how teams tend to view these types of trades. It also lines up timing wise with the assumed development of Trubisky.
With that being said, I think there is some inequity where a team could start moving for a lot of future picks and really increase their draft value overall long term. The problem is that regimes don't generally last long enough to realize the upside.
With that being said, I think there is some inequity where a team could start moving for a lot of future picks and really increase their draft value overall long term. The problem is that regimes don't generally last long enough to realize the upside.
TexasBearfan
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,716
- Liked Posts:
- 2,298
We have Oscar Goldman?
BearbaFett
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 20, 2009
- Posts:
- 972
- Liked Posts:
- 711
why 2 years? no reason that we can't do that this year....last season, 8 of the 12 playoff teams didn't make the playoffs the season prior. with a new offensive system in place, it makes it that much more difficult for opposing teams to gameplan for us, and if we click and stay relatively injury-free, i can see us taking a leap similar to the rams or jaguars last year.
i understand that it's not that easy and will take some stars to align (ie - cousins sucking, injuries to the packers, lions imploding under patricia), but us succeeding is not out of the realm of possibility.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 6,185
- Liked Posts:
- 2,565
- Location:
- New York State(sucks)
He has come a long way since his first draft, improving a little over each of his drafts. I think a lot of people are also going to be very pleased with Paces 2017 class of high ceiling/developmental types too when all said & done. They should set in perfectly with this years draft class that I believe has a lot of plug & play value to it. I believe the 2017 class & 2018 class compliment each other perfectly here in Chicago.
Pace did almost exactly what I was hoping for. The only thing I wish he had done differently was add a RT with pick #4.
Pace did almost exactly what I was hoping for. The only thing I wish he had done differently was add a RT with pick #4.
Blutarsky12
Member
- Joined:
- Apr 6, 2014
- Posts:
- 25
- Liked Posts:
- 40
According to NFL Draft Countdown, Chicago landed 10 of the top 300 players:
7- R Smith
17- J Daniels
67- A Miller
113- K Toliver
159- K Fitts
161- B Nichols
197- J Iyiegbuniwe
210- J Wims
233- D Allen
240- M Joseph
7- R Smith
17- J Daniels
67- A Miller
113- K Toliver
159- K Fitts
161- B Nichols
197- J Iyiegbuniwe
210- J Wims
233- D Allen
240- M Joseph
Username
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 29, 2016
- Posts:
- 1,400
- Liked Posts:
- 597
Bottom line. Pace love to create holes and fill them with inexperience. We can only hope things work out.
Myk
85in25
- Joined:
- Sep 27, 2010
- Posts:
- 11,994
- Liked Posts:
- 4,938
I can see that view too. I mean the GM coming in talking about offense but getting a defensive coach. The Nagy pick seems to go along with the way Pace talked coming in.
So you could say the inexperience Nagy pick was old school Bears with your view.
Chris Sojka
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 25, 2012
- Posts:
- 6,687
- Liked Posts:
- 2,686
Dude if teams could just turn franchises around every 2 years there would be 8 superbowl champion calibur teams 8 AFC division champion calibur teams and 8 NFC division champion calibur teams.
The truth is great franchises are not built by tanking a draft like the colts did for luck... or like the browns did for the last 4 years. They are built around elite talent and coaches that know how to utilize it. Which means everyone from the GM to the coach and the players selected have to be better than the guy on the other teams they are competing against. I think you are underestimating just how difficult it is to be successful in the NFL.