I Miss Ben Gordon

[Diddy1122]

ramblingrose33 wrote:

So your problem is with ownership. Join the club. Nobody is totally happy with the front office. The arguments on this thread have been about moving on from Ben Gordon because honestly, this site will become really lame if whenever a game passes that Hinrich scores 12 and Gordon scores 21, we have an argument about how bad a team we have and how awful we are without Ben Gordon. People on the whole don't care and want to enjoy the team we have! I think the arguments are heavy right now because we don't want to have them on October 30. What is it going to take for you guys to move on?

Heavy, HEAVY doses of Xanax. :cheer:

 

[??? ??????]

ramblingrose33 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

ramblingrose33 wrote:

But Brand, Curry, and Chandler all have huge contracts that people are stuck with. Fizer is Fizer. Whoever wanted that guy any way. And Jay Williams definitely wasn't let go by this organization. He hurt himself badly and even broke stipulations in his contract doing that act. So putting BG in this category is not too complimentary.

Until Reinsdorf is held accountable, we are going to continually lose young big men, trade opportunities for star big men, and top 3 picks in the draft, all for nothing.

No other team has had 8 top 5 picks in the last 10 years and only had one successful pick out of the group. None of the picks have made it past their rookie deals with us except for TC for one year. That makes the clippers in the 90's look good.

So your problem is with ownership. Join the club. Nobody is totally happy with the front office. The arguments on this thread have been about moving on from Ben Gordon because honestly, this site will become really lame if whenever a game passes that Hinrich scores 12 and Gordon scores 21, we have an argument about how bad a team we have and how awful we are without Ben Gordon. People on the whole don't care and want to enjoy the team we have! I think the arguments are heavy right now because we don't want to have them on October 30. What is it going to take for you guys to move on?

For the Bulls to be good, and get a superstar in 2010 free agency.

 

[TheStig]

Diddy1122 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

ramblingrose33 wrote:

But Brand, Curry, and Chandler all have huge contracts that people are stuck with. Fizer is Fizer. Whoever wanted that guy any way. And Jay Williams definitely wasn't let go by this organization. He hurt himself badly and even broke stipulations in his contract doing that act. So putting BG in this category is not too complimentary.

No other team has had 8 top 5 picks in the last 10 years and only had one successful pick out of the group. None of the picks have made it past their rookie deals with us except for TC for one year. That makes the clippers in the 90's look good.

Are we forgetting that the majority of those picks were Krause's doing? Just another example of how crappy a GM he was. With the exception of Brand, who was an unanimous #1 pick, Krause swung & missed everytime. And he was the idiot who traded away a 20-10 future all-star for a tub of goo (Curry) & dandy waif (Chandler).

Since Krause, Pax got Kirk, Luol, BG, Thomas, Noah, & Rose all in the lottery. All but BG are still contributing members of this Bulls team. That's not a bad track record at all. And certainly nowhere near Clippers-esque.

JR isn't innocent in all this. He isn't a normal owner, he is involved in personnel decisions. He is involved in player/coach interviews, negotiations and has final sign off. Outside of Mark Cuban, no owner is near as involved.

 

[TheStig]

??? ?????? wrote:

ramblingrose33 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

ramblingrose33 wrote:

But Brand, Curry, and Chandler all have huge contracts that people are stuck with. Fizer is Fizer. Whoever wanted that guy any way. And Jay Williams definitely wasn't let go by this organization. He hurt himself badly and even broke stipulations in his contract doing that act. So putting BG in this category is not too complimentary.

Until Reinsdorf is held accountable, we are going to continually lose young big men, trade opportunities for star big men, and top 3 picks in the draft, all for nothing.

No other team has had 8 top 5 picks in the last 10 years and only had one successful pick out of the group. None of the picks have made it past their rookie deals with us except for TC for one year. That makes the clippers in the 90's look good.

So your problem is with ownership. Join the club. Nobody is totally happy with the front office. The arguments on this thread have been about moving on from Ben Gordon because honestly, this site will become really lame if whenever a game passes that Hinrich scores 12 and Gordon scores 21, we have an argument about how bad a team we have and how awful we are without Ben Gordon. People on the whole don't care and want to enjoy the team we have! I think the arguments are heavy right now because we don't want to have them on October 30. What is it going to take for you guys to move on?

For the Bulls to be good, and get a superstar in 2010 free agency.

That would help a lot. In the end though, this is a management move. Kirk was easily able to be moved for an expiring and management could have locked up BG for 6/54. It was a business move for them and they effectively chose kirk over bg. We realistically could have completed the boozer for kirk and tyrus trade and resigned BG and have a 50 win team. Now we will be a bubble team, for what, so JR could make the most money in the league instead of second most. That is my problem, we make business moves, not basketball moves. People don't buy sports teams as investments, they buy them for entertainment and enjoyment. The fact that one owner can make so much more than any other owner in the league by such a wide margin proves it is a business. The sox can be run for a tiny profit and allowed to use their market advantage but the bulls are run like a small market club shrieking behind the LT. All the other sub LT teams are either rebuilding or barely clearing a profit. Not us. We are racking it in for Uncle Jerry.

 

[clonetrooper264]

ramblingrose33 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

ramblingrose33 wrote:

But Brand, Curry, and Chandler all have huge contracts that people are stuck with. Fizer is Fizer. Whoever wanted that guy any way. And Jay Williams definitely wasn't let go by this organization. He hurt himself badly and even broke stipulations in his contract doing that act. So putting BG in this category is not too complimentary.

Until Reinsdorf is held accountable, we are going to continually lose young big men, trade opportunities for star big men, and top 3 picks in the draft, all for nothing.

No other team has had 8 top 5 picks in the last 10 years and only had one successful pick out of the group. None of the picks have made it past their rookie deals with us except for TC for one year. That makes the clippers in the 90's look good.

So your problem is with ownership. Join the club. Nobody is totally happy with the front office. The arguments on this thread have been about moving on from Ben Gordon because honestly, this site will become really lame if whenever a game passes that Hinrich scores 12 and Gordon scores 21, we have an argument about how bad a team we have and how awful we are without Ben Gordon. People on the whole don't care and want to enjoy the team we have! I think the arguments are heavy right now because we don't want to have them on October 30. What is it going to take for you guys to move on?

1) Ben Gordon to suck
2) Kirk Hinrich becomes a superb offensive threat
3) Derrick Rose becomes an all star.
4) The Bulls have some degree of success in the playoffs while the Pistons flounder in mediocrity.
5) Some big acquisition by the Bulls during the year or in 2010 that will make Bulls fans forget that Ben Gordon even exists (and happens to have the record for most 3's made by a Bull in only 5 season).

Those are all options, not things that all need to happen (though that would be awesome).

 

[houheffna]

That would help a lot. In the end though, this is a management move. Kirk was easily able to be moved for an expiring and management could have locked up BG for 6/54. It was a business move for them and they effectively chose kirk over bg. We realistically could have completed the boozer for kirk and tyrus trade and resigned BG and have a 50 win team. Now we will be a bubble team, for what, so JR could make the most money in the league instead of second most. That is my problem, we make business moves, not basketball moves. People don't buy sports teams as investments, they buy them for entertainment and enjoyment. The fact that one owner can make so much more than any other owner in the league by such a wide margin proves it is a business. The sox can be run for a tiny profit and allowed to use their market advantage but the bulls are run like a small market club shrieking behind the LT. All the other sub LT teams are either rebuilding or barely clearing a profit. Not us. We are racking it in for Uncle Jerry.

This is a lot of misinformation. Once again, this is all about BG who "led" us from horrid play to mediocrity. Which is like Moses taking the Israelites out of Egypt and having them drown in the Red Sea. So the Bulls chose the better defender, ballhandler and better all around player over Gordon...for less money. SO WHAT! Enough about him, because he didn't play up to all of this hype, none of them did...

Who do you know that owns sports teams? Because your reasoning is flawed. You show me anyone who would invest hundreds of millions of dollars into an organization (which is what a sports team is...a BUSINESS ORGANIZATION) to have fun....and I will show you a complete Special person! Who owns teams just for fun? Who? Mark Cuban? The guy who has so much fun that he walks around insulting referees and people's mothers?

Uncle Jerry has 6 championships...6! And a World Series...7 championships! What the heck is the problem? He didn't sign Ben Gordon for 12mil...so what? The Bulls are no closer to me with Gordon to a championship then without him.

Reinsdorf didn't pay Jordan 30mil per for fun! He did it for business! What is good business? WINNING!!! The people on this forum who like to throw Reinsdorf under the bus because he isn't running around UC wearing a feather boa and giving high fives don't make sense to me. Yes he is involved. I just heard this week that Reinsdorf was behind the Ben Wallace signing. That 60mil, which he knew was overpaying, was solely on Reinsdorf...he did the same thing with Albert Belle 10 years earlier. Overpaid for a guy who had seen his better days...he treats both sides of town as a business.

I wish people could see Gordon's defensive liabilities as easy as they see flaws in Reinsdorf's 7 championships and being one of the best owners in this city's history...

 

[clonetrooper264]

From what I've heard Reinsdorf didn't even want to play Jordan 30 million because he thought no player was worth that much. Not sure if that's true, but if it is it certainly says a lot about Reinsdorf as an owner.

As for the Bulls being no closer to a championship with Gordon. I would say that if the Bulls get a superstar FA in 2010 (which is a slim chance) then Ben Gordon would have definitely helped the Bulls get to that championship level AS THE THIRD OPTION. Let's say we get Bosh. We would have Bosh, Rose and Gordon as our 1st 2nd and 3rd options, Deng as a 4th, and Noah as our defensive anchor of sorts. That's pretty good if you ask me. Now if we get Bosh we have him, Rose, and Salmons as our options. Those are still good, but the kind of end of game domination you could have gotten with Gordon still on the team has been lost. In that situation, Gordon would have been a very valuable asset. That's why I wish Ben Gordon was still here. Is it still possible to get to that level without him? Yes, but with him here it would have been easier.

 

[houheffna]

It would not be as easy as possibly getting a Joe Johnson next year. Chris Bosh is not a number one option. Which is why he would not have chosen to come here without Gordon. Gordon has the mentality of a number one option and Bosh though skilled, does not have that mentality. And there lies the problem. Gordon would be your number one option with Bosh and Rose and then you would go....nowhere. Bosh is not the answer. You would have the most skilled offensive talents deferring to Gordon, who is not a number one option because they don't have the mentality of that guy and he does.

 

[clonetrooper264]

houheffna wrote:

It would not be as easy as possibly getting a Joe Johnson next year. Chris Bosh is not a number one option. Which is why he would not have chosen to come here without Gordon. Gordon has the mentality of a number one option and Bosh though skilled, does not have that mentality. And there lies the problem. Gordon would be your number one option with Bosh and Rose and then you would go....nowhere. Bosh is not the answer. You would have the most skilled offensive talents deferring to Gordon, who is not a number one option because they don't have the mentality of that guy and he does.

Bosh was just an example. You could easily replace Bosh with Stoudamire, Wade, LeBron, Johnson, Boozer, etc. I'm pretty sure that if the Bulls had a legitimate superstar as their #1 option, Gordon would have no problems with not being the #1 option. Maybe I'm completely wrong on that, but I have no proof otherwise.