***IGT*** Thursday night football

[bamainatlanta]

i hate this particular angle from you--None of the guys listed drop into coverage as much as Mack- If you had a percentage of QB pressures per attempt, your argument with this would hold weight. Mack is in a very skilled position that plays mostly in a 4-3 over---I'd guess almost half of his snaps? Where are your Lber QB pressures?

Who on this list is an actual LB who covers? Ford? who else?

A DE and DT rush the QB on virtually every single snap, so of course they would have more pressures, more opportunities etc.

Mack is elite at his position and a game changer. Your "perception" of your own "facts" are wrong warrior spirit. you're wrong.

Lol, have you seen Ford in coverage? It's worse than Bostic was

 

[TL1961]

Rivers shouldn't have played. The Patriots played a poor game but Rivers was awful. He was atrocious in the red zone and was throwing rainbows all game. They had a better shot with a healthy Volek(who led them to the comeback win @ Indy the week before).

Just as a point of reference -

This is when Rivers suffered the same injury that Cutler later suffered in 2010 against the Packers. When Cutler left the game at halftime, Rivers publicly ripped him and said "I would never leave a playoff game with that injury", when, in fact, that is exactly what he did - left a playoff game with the very same injury. To his credit, somewhat, after a week's time to allow the swelling to subside and to have it treated, he played in the following week's game. But he was so bad he essentially guaranteed the opponent a win. But when he made the comments after Cutler's injury - HE CAUGHT NO FLAK!!

The guy is wrapped in Teflon for some reason.

I have watched NFL football for a lot of years, and have never seen a QB - or any player for that matter - who cries to refs and calls out teammates even half as much as this douchebag. And he never gets criticized.

 

[ijustposthere]

Rivers is not overrated, if anything he’s UNDERRATED.

You can’t use the “didn”t win in the playoffs” narrative either, otherwise those like Marino would be ‘overrated’ as well.

That's ridiculous. Marino was putting up numbers in an era that were completely untouchable at the time.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

i hate this particular angle from you--None of the guys listed drop into coverage as much as Mack- If you had a percentage of QB pressures per attempt, your argument with this would hold weight. Mack is in a very skilled position that plays mostly in a 4-3 over---I'd guess almost half of his snaps? Where are your Lber QB pressures?

Who on this list is an actual LB who covers? Ford? who else?

A DE and DT rush the QB on virtually every single snap, so of course they would have more pressures, more opportunities etc.

Mack is elite at his position and a game changer. Your "perception" of your own "facts" are wrong warrior spirit. you're wrong.

Your perception is wrong, very wrong, horribly wrong and surely you saw other edge rushers listed in there that do the same. Mack even did the same in Oakland and the numbers are down. He has spent nowhere near the amount of time in pass coverage that you think he has. With the Bears, he has been rushing the passer on 85.6% of pass plays.

First, I give you what you ask for, cause I'm nice like that. You want the PRP, which combines sacks, hits and hurries relative to how many times they actually rush the passer. This is a type % PFF does. The way they come about it is players get a half point for all QB hits and all hurries and you add them together and then add sacks (full point)then divide by the number of snaps in which they were rushing the passer. Mack falls right outside the top 10. In his DPOY year, his PRP was 10.7, second to only Von Miller who was just .1 higher. This year it is 8.8 which rates at #12. Donald has an 11.5 PRP.

Say you don't like Hurries and you don't like PFF. No problem, we can just go by sacks and QB hits which free sites provide. In 2016, Mack had a total of 26 QB hits (including sacks). That tied him for 2nd place with Atkins and Avril. Donald led with 31.

In 2017, Mack had 22 which put him in a tie at #16. Chandler Jones led the league with a total of 33. DPOY, Aaron Donald, had 27.

This year, Aaron Donald leads with 33 and Mack has just 12 (not even the most on his team) which ties him with others at #45. See a slight drop off?

Can also look at Tackles for Loss. 2016 Mack had 14, tying him with several others at #12. Kerrigan led with 18. Donald had 17 tied with Jordan, Bosa, Vernon and David. This year Mack has 7 TFL tying him with many others at #68. Donald leads the league with 20.

This is why Belichick laughed when asked if Mack compared to LT. If you're looking for the one defensive player to compare to LT, it would be Donald. 2 different positions, yes, but both are trend setters. After a coked up LT did what he did and was then allowed to roam to pick his spots every team wanted that type player. He redefined the OLB position just as Aaron Donald is redefining his.

 

[PrideisBears]

Did Aaron Donald even play against us last Sunday night?

 

[Chicago Staleys]

Da Fuck?

Da fuck to you too!

 

[airtime143]

Just as a point of reference -

This is when Rivers suffered the same injury that Cutler later suffered in 2010 against the Packers. When Cutler left the game at halftime, Rivers publicly ripped him and said "I would never leave a playoff game with that injury", when, in fact, that is exactly what he did - left a playoff game with the very same injury. To his credit, somewhat, after a week's time to allow the swelling to subside and to have it treated, he played in the following week's game. But he was so bad he essentially guaranteed the opponent a win. But when he made the comments after Cutler's injury - HE CAUGHT NO FLAK!!

The guy is wrapped in Teflon for some reason.

I have watched NFL football for a lot of years, and have never seen a QB - or any player for that matter - who cries to refs and calls out teammates even half as much as this douchebag. And he never gets criticized.

You appear mixed up or dumb.
Rivers had a torn acl. Not a sprained mcl. Surgery and an off season of rehab.
LT was the one with a sprained mcl...a little more severe on a running back than a qb.

 

[MDB111™]

Your perception is wrong, very wrong, horribly wrong and surely you saw other edge rushers listed in there that do the same. Mack even did the same in Oakland and the numbers are down. He has spent nowhere near the amount of time in pass coverage that you think he has. With the Bears, he has been rushing the passer on 85.6% of pass plays.

First, I give you what you ask for, cause I'm nice like that. You want the PRP, which combines sacks, hits and hurries relative to how many times they actually rush the passer. This is a type % PFF does. The way they come about it is players get a half point for all QB hits and all hurries and you add them together and then add sacks (full point)then divide by the number of snaps in which they were rushing the passer. Mack falls right outside the top 10. In his DPOY year, his PRP was 10.7, second to only Von Miller who was just .1 higher. This year it is 8.8 which rates at #12. Donald has an 11.5 PRP.

Say you don't like Hurries and you don't like PFF. No problem, we can just go by sacks and QB hits which free sites provide. In 2016, Mack had a total of 26 QB hits (including sacks). That tied him for 2nd place with Atkins and Avril. Donald led with 31.

In 2017, Mack had 22 which put him in a tie at #16. Chandler Jones led the league with a total of 33. DPOY, Aaron Donald, had 27.

This year, Aaron Donald leads with 33 and Mack has just 12 (not even the most on his team) which ties him with others at #45. See a slight drop off?

Can also look at Tackles for Loss. 2016 Mack had 14, tying him with several others at #12. Kerrigan led with 18. Donald had 17 tied with Jordan, Bosa, Vernon and David. This year Mack has 7 TFL tying him with many others at #68. Donald leads the league with 20.

This is why Belichick laughed when asked if Mack compared to LT. If you're looking for the one defensive player to compare to LT, it would be Donald. 2 different positions, yes, but both are trend setters. After a coked up LT did what he did and was then allowed to roam to pick his spots every team wanted that type player. He redefined the OLB position just as Aaron Donald is redefining his.

Thanks for the efforts. Just as we made Aaron Donald disappear last week, so have the Bears opponents in trying to contain Mack. Stats don't lie, but they don't tell the whole story. I'm still a Mack believer and fan. My eyesight tells me, that he gets double and triple teamed at times. And not that those other guys dont see double coverage, I know that Mack makes a difference for us.
Now that said, 5 years down the road and Mack isnt top 5 every year in certain categories, you have an argument that we paid too much perhaps. But I am glad the Bears backed up the money truck for him. Maybe Donald gets more in the future? I like our guy and our team though.

I gather from all of this. you wish Mack had better stats or at least led the league in certain categories? Other than that, what is the overall point you are trying to make?

Again, thanks for the response with cold hard facts.

 

[TL1961]

You appear mixed up or dumb.
Rivers had a torn acl. Not a sprained mcl. Surgery and an off season of rehab.
LT was the one with a sprained mcl...a little more severe on a running back than a qb.

F you. You call me names because I made a mistake? (Possibly)

My recollection was Rivers criticized Jay for exact same injury. I don’t keep a journal of Philip Rivers’ medical history.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Thanks for the efforts. Just as we made Aaron Donald disappear last week, so have the Bears opponents in trying to contain Mack. Stats don't lie, but they don't tell the whole story. I'm still a Mack believer and fan. My eyesight tells me, that he gets double and triple teamed at times. And not that those other guys dont see double coverage, I know that Mack makes a difference for us.
Now that said, 5 years down the road and Mack isnt top 5 every year in certain categories, you have an argument that we paid too much perhaps. But I am glad the Bears backed up the money truck for him. Maybe Donald gets more in the future? I like our guy and our team though.

I gather from all of this. you wish Mack had better stats or at least led the league in certain categories? Other than that, what is the overall point you are trying to make?

Again, thanks for the response with cold hard facts.

It’s really just a matter of being more productive. The bullshit of occupying blockers is just that, bullshit. All those guys I mentioned get extra attention here and there, they still have to do their job and get it done.

You can say Donald didn’t do much against the Bears and that’s good for us but that’s 1 game in 5 years so to go just by that is ridiculous. Both he and Mack still had the same amount of tackles that game, Mack just had the strip sack play that obviously stands out in people’s mind. Mack has also had many games where he didn’t get a sack or much of anything else yet people here still act like he’s the best of the best. When you put it all into perspective, Donald has produced a lot more, as have other defenders from year to year.

A guy like Mack, usually is gonna get no more than a chip and a Tackle blocking him. A guy like Donald is usually getting 2 lineman on him and nobody has split more double teams than him. Aaron Donald is a lock to get his second DPOY in a row this year, something only 2 other players have accomplished.

Think it’s a bad idea, too, to pay elite QB type money to pass rushers. Their shelf life is no longer than your average RB and they can be game planned against especially if they have no other strong players behind them. Mack does have a lot of strong players around him so one would expect more than he did in Oakland, not less.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

It’s really just a matter of being more productive. The bullshit of occupying blockers is just that, bullshit. All those guys I mentioned get extra attention here and there, they still have to do their job and get it done.

You can say Donald didn’t do much against the Bears and that’s good for us but that’s 1 game in 5 years so to go just by that is ridiculous. Both he and Mack still had the same amount of tackles that game, Mack just had the strip sack play that obviously stands out in people’s mind. Mack has also had many games where he didn’t get a sack or much of anything else yet people here still act like he’s the best of the best. When you put it all into perspective, Donald has produced a lot more, as have other defenders from year to year.

A guy like Mack, usually is gonna get no more than a chip and a Tackle blocking him. A guy like Donald is usually getting 2 lineman on him and nobody has split more double teams than him. Aaron Donald is a lock to get his second DPOY in a row this year, something only 2 other players have accomplished.

Think it’s a bad idea, too, to pay elite QB type money to pass rushers. Their shelf life is no longer than your average RB and they can be game planned against especially if they have no other strong players behind them. Mack does have a lot of strong players around him so one would expect more than he did in Oakland, not less.

Lol @ the last paragraph. There are many examples of premier pass rushers playing very well into their 30's.

The hyperbole is thick in here and it stinks.

 

[MDB111™]

It’s really just a matter of being more productive. The bullshit of occupying blockers is just that, bullshit. All those guys I mentioned get extra attention here and there, they still have to do their job and get it done.

You can say Donald didn’t do much against the Bears and that’s good for us but that’s 1 game in 5 years so to go just by that is ridiculous. Both he and Mack still had the same amount of tackles that game, Mack just had the strip sack play that obviously stands out in people’s mind. Mack has also had many games where he didn’t get a sack or much of anything else yet people here still act like he’s the best of the best. When you put it all into perspective, Donald has produced a lot more, as have other defenders from year to year.

A guy like Mack, usually is gonna get no more than a chip and a Tackle blocking him. A guy like Donald is usually getting 2 lineman on him and nobody has split more double teams than him. Aaron Donald is a lock to get his second DPOY in a row this year, something only 2 other players have accomplished.

Think it’s a bad idea, too, to pay elite QB type money to pass rushers. Their shelf life is no longer than your average RB and they can be game planned against especially if they have no other strong players behind them. Mack does have a lot of strong players around him so one would expect more than he did in Oakland, not less.

1. I am not sure if that was Donald's only shit game in 5 yrs. I haven't nose dived into his stats or game tapes and dont follow him enough
2. Mack gets way more than just a chip block here and there. Now I'm not arguing that teams dont double and triple other guys, but they do with Mack. I also am not arguing that Donald is not the cream of the crop here.

3. A edge set DE or LB has historically always gotten big bucks and the bears can afford top tier QB money in Mack's direction because for 2 seasons the bears wont need to pay a qb like a top tier qb. IMO this gives them a 2 yr window to go for the glory

4. Now that we have Mack, we can focus on compliments to him in the draft and FA. Resources will be thin but they can make it work.

 

[MDB111™]

4. MACK leads league in forced fumbles right?

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Lol @ the last paragraph. There are many examples of premier pass rushers playing very well into their 30's.

The hyperbole is thick in here and it stinks.

Don’t be shy, pal. Provide the list who were still forces to be reckoned with in their 30s. For the overwhelming majority, once they’ve hit 30, you’ve already seen them perform at their highest level and it’s a level they’ll never obtain again.

 

[MDB111™]

Cameron Wake
Michael Bennett
Suh----stretch
Ryan Kerrigan
Gino Atkins
Everson Griffin

They're out there. Most players whe they reach 30 decline across the board.but they are out there

 

[Wild_x_Card]

Don’t be shy, pal. Provide the list who were still forces to be reckoned with in their 30s. For the overwhelming majority, once they’ve hit 30, you’ve already seen them perform at their highest level and it’s a level they’ll never obtain again.

I could rattle off plenty just off the top of my head (and you could to) if you really thought about it.

Terrell suggs
Jason Taylor
Elvis dumervil
Dwight freeney
DeMarcus Ware
Julius peppers

And I could keep going and going..


Notice I didn't say playing at an elite level, I said playing very well. Which is still high level.

They just don't fall off the production cliff like your hyperbole suggests.

Of course, some do. You could say that about any position group, but it's certainly not status quo.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I could rattle off plenty just off the top of my head (and you could to) if you really thought about it.

Terrell suggs
Jason Taylor
Elvis dumervil
Dwight freeney
DeMarcus Ware
Julius peppers

And I could keep going and going..


Notice I didn't say playing at an elite level, I said playing very well. Which is still high level.

They just don't fall off the production cliff like your hyperbole suggests.

Of course, some do. You could say that about any position group, but it's certainly not status quo.

Looking in PFFs top 20-30, I spot 2 who are right at 30 and all others below.

Suggs meh. Dumervil stopped being relevant 4 years ago. Freeney and Ware formidable til about 32. Peppers below average this year but he’s gotta be 40. Probably your best example there but an exception and not the norm.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

Looking in PFFs top 20-30, I spot 2 who are right at 30 and all others below.

Suggs meh. Dumervil stopped being relevant 4 years ago. Freeney and Ware formidable til about 32. Peppers below average this year but he’s gotta be 40. Probably your best example there but an exception and not the norm.

Suggs Meh?? You keep hanging on to
PPF old pal. It's all you have left.

Again, as I said..I could easily keep going.

Plain and simple your "RB shelf life" claim is straight bogus. Poster better. Like you're capable of doing.

Good day.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Suggs Meh?[emoji23] You keep hanging on to
PPF old pal. It's all you have left.

Again, as I said..I could easily keep going.

Plain and simple your "RB shelf life" claim is straight bogus. Poster better. Like you're capable of doing.

Good day.

Well, good day to you, too. If you’re to be honest all but Peppers fell off to a level where they wouldn’t even be considered top 50, by the age of 30 or slightly over, so nothing special as they once were. But you did manage to prove Peppers was the Frank Gore of pass rushers.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

Well, good day to you, too. If you’re to be honest all but Peppers fell off to a level where they wouldn’t even be considered top 50, by the age of 30 or slightly over, so nothing special as they once were. But you did manage to prove Peppers was the Frank Gore of pass rushers.

And Suggs had 11 sacks and 4 FFs just last year.

Not bad at all for a guy in the twilight of his career. I would never argue they stay elite well into their 30's. Rather, it's very possible to play high level productive football as a pass rusher late in their career's.

Peppers is somewhat of an ageless freak. Like Fitzgerald or Frank Gore. Rare breed.

I think it's also important to note that a good majority of pass rushers who do end up up playing well later on on are not guys who's career's depended solely on speed to bend the edge. Those are the guys that seem to fade quicker because when they lose that step they have nothing to fall back on.

Dumervil did somewhat rely on speed but he played with insane leverage because of his lack of height.

Thankfully, Mack isn't what you'd consider a speed rusher.