Illegal Immigration costs

[Tater]

The links might not to be copied/pasted, I didn't embed them individually.

I thought this might stir up some conversation, if it gets out of hand, I'm sure a mod will lock it.





If we can logically assume that most of the wages earned by illegal’s are under the table & don’t pay any taxes, then there’s another chunk of add’l cost too…



Bankruptcy 101...why Arizona did the right thing!!



It's easy to dismiss individual programs that benefit non-citizens until they're put together and this picture emerges. Someone did a lot of research to put together all of this data. Often these programs are buried within other programs making them difficult to find.





A Real Eye Opener ...

WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?



You think the war in Iraq was costing us too much? Read this:



We have been hammered with the propaganda that it was the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.



1.

$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.



Verify

at: [url]http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8[/url] <[url]http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8[/url]>





2.

$22 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.



Verify

at: [url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML[/url] <[url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML[/url]>





3.

$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.



Verify at:

[url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML[/url] <[url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML[/url]>





4.

$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!



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at: [url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML[/url] <[url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML[/url]>





5.

$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.



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at [url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML[/url] <[url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML[/url]>





6.

$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.



Verify at:

[url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML[/url] <[url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML[/url]>

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7.

30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.





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at: [url]http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML[/url] <[url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML[/url]>

<[url]http://transcripts/[/url] <[url]http://transcripts/[/url]> ..cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E <;;







8.

$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.





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9.

$200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.





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10.

The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the U.S.





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11.

During the year of 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border, also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the US from the Southern border.





Verify

at: Homeland Security Report:





12.

The National policy Institute estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.





Verify

at: [url]http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportation.PDF[/url] <[url]http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportationPDF[/url]>







13.

In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.





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at: [url]http://www/[/url]. <[url]http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm[/url]> rense.com/general75/niht.htm <[url]http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm[/url]>





14.

The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ...



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<% 20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml>





The total cost is a whopping

$ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.



Are we THAT Stupid?

YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Did you get this off of KKK's site? I felt like I was reading a pamphlet in Selma, Mississippi in 1960 on why black people don't deserve to live. 200$ billion in suppressed wages...the fact is the illegal aliens are hard ass workers. I've worked with many, and I also work with "illegal" aliens at a food depository, they work just as hard to help one another out for nothing in return. 30% of all federal prisoners are illegal aliens?!?!?



Nearly one million sex crimes? As if this isn't standard for any large group of people. Who the **** wrote this?



My personal favorite was,"$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!".........just pathetically wrong. Once your born here your a citizen, and these kids speak english just a good as I do, and definitely better than the hilljack that wants them out of his precious space (even though here's clearly never met and illegal alien let alone gotten to know one or worked with them.) This topic pisses me off enough when people who have no idea what they are talking about and blabber on, but when you try to back up a quote like that with facts? Give me a break. My Scots Irish great grandparents were looked at as n$$#@#s, my german ones spoke little to no english. They all had huge families and had raised their kids while working for nothing, I'd say they did a hell of a job considering where my family and all my cousins are today..... Do you see a trend, our families were in the same exact situation 100 years ago. Pull your head out of your ass if you agree with this dickhead.

 

[Pez68]

Did you get this off of KKK's site? I felt like I was reading a pamphlet in Selma, Mississippi in 1960 on why black people don't deserve to live. 200$ billion in suppressed wages...the fact is the illegal aliens are hard ass workers. I've worked with many, and I also work with "illegal" aliens at a food depository, they work just as hard to help one another out for nothing in return. 30% of all federal prisoners are illegal aliens?!?!?



Nearly one million sex crimes? As if this isn't standard for any large group of people. Who the **** wrote this?



My personal favorite was,"$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!".........just pathetically wrong. Once your born here your a citizen, and these kids speak english just a good as I do, and definitely better than the hilljack that wants them out of his precious space (even though here's clearly never met and illegal alien let alone gotten to know one or worked with them.) This topic pisses me off enough when people who have no idea what they are talking about and blabber on, but when you try to back up a quote like that with facts? Give me a break. My Scots Irish great grandparents were looked at as n$$#@#s, my german ones spoke little to no english. They all had huge families and had raised their kids while working for nothing, I'd say they did a hell of a job considering where my family and all my cousins are today..... Do you see a trend, our families were in the same exact situation 100 years ago. Pull your head out of your ass if you agree with this dickhead.

Take off your blinders man. Who gives a **** if they are hard workers? I sure don't. I've worked with a TON of illegal aliens, and they contribute almost nothing to this country except more debt. I'd rather have my friends, or my relatives working hard doing those jobs. Instead, those that would normally do labor type jobs are stuck for months on end unable to find a job... Illegals have flooded the labor industry and put a lot of HARD WORKING AMERICAN CITIZENS out of work.



I like how you also conveniently ignored pretty much all of the first four points made. Illegals are not only taking OUR jobs, they're taking OUR money through those assistance programs! That's right, the money we pay in taxes, is going back to Mexico via illegal aliens. And you're somehow OK with that?



The crime information is absolutely pertinent to this conversation as well. 30% of inmates are illegal aliens, but only 4% of our total population are illegal aliens. That's ridiculous. For comparison sake, Caucasians make up around 65% of our population and 58% of our inmates. Black/African-American makes up 12% of our population and 39% of our inmates... The number of illegals that are criminals is astounding when you look at total populations. One million sex crimes committed. The STANDARD for a large population? Except, illegals aren't a LARGE population. They are only 4% of our total population!



Things that I know for certain from my time working with illegal aliens from Mexico, and speaking fluent Spanish.



1) The large majority of the money they make here, is sent back to Mexico.



2) The majority of them spend as little as possible in this country, and they inject almost nothing into our economy. They often live illegally(4-5 FAMILIES living in two bedroom apartments)



3) NONE of them pay for medical care. They just go to the emergency room or to free clinics. Who do you think pays for that?



4) MANY of those illegals are using our assistance programs, as mentioned in this article. Food stamps, WIC, welfare, etc. You know where that comes from? Already covered.



5) The majority of these illegals have no intention on staying in this country. They are only making enough money to build homes, buy cars, and stockpile money so they can live like kings in Mexico.



6) Almost all of them drive illegally, and without insurance. So when they get in accidents, guess who pays for it? You guessed it, those that pay into automotive insurance.



Wake up.

 

[Sir Mike of Burbs]

The fact is many politicians will not exchange their seats in congress/senate to Change any of this. There are more latin voters then there are conservative voters. And with conservative policy makers barley getting voted in as it is now. I doubt you will see any republicans from northern states where they say "immigration doesn't effect their state" change their views and possibly get voted out. The governments policies on this issue are sketchy no matter who's in charge. it would take dirty Harry Himself to crack down on this stuff.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

Did you get this off of KKK's site? I felt like I was reading a pamphlet in Selma, Mississippi in 1960 on why black people don't deserve to live. 200$ billion in suppressed wages...the fact is the illegal aliens are hard ass workers. I've worked with many, and I also work with "illegal" aliens at a food depository, they work just as hard to help one another out for nothing in return. 30% of all federal prisoners are illegal aliens?!?!?



Nearly one million sex crimes? As if this isn't standard for any large group of people. Who the **** wrote this?



My personal favorite was,"$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!".........just pathetically wrong. Once your born here your a citizen, and these kids speak english just a good as I do, and definitely better than the hilljack that wants them out of his precious space (even though here's clearly never met and illegal alien let alone gotten to know one or worked with them.) This topic pisses me off enough when people who have no idea what they are talking about and blabber on, but when you try to back up a quote like that with facts? Give me a break. My Scots Irish great grandparents were looked at as n$$#@#s, my german ones spoke little to no english. They all had huge families and had raised their kids while working for nothing, I'd say they did a hell of a job considering where my family and all my cousins are today..... Do you see a trend, our families were in the same exact situation 100 years ago. Pull your head out of your ass if you agree with this dickhead.

So because someone works hard, then it is ok for them to do so where it is illegal? I fly planes like an ace, does that mean I can go right ahead and do it illegally because I am so good at it? Or more to your point, just because I'm an excellent worker, does that mean that I can go to Italy and just start working there underthe table, mooching off their social services, and send most of the money I make back to the USA?

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Take off your blinders man. Who gives a **** if they are hard workers? I sure don't. I've worked with a TON of illegal aliens, and they contribute almost nothing to this country except more debt. I'd rather have my friends, or my relatives working hard doing those jobs. Instead, those that would normally do labor type jobs are stuck for months on end unable to find a job... Illegals have flooded the labor industry and put a lot of HARD WORKING AMERICAN CITIZENS out of work.



I like how you also conveniently ignored pretty much all of the first four points made. Illegals are not only taking OUR jobs, they're taking OUR money through those assistance programs! That's right, the money we pay in taxes, is going back to Mexico via illegal aliens. And you're somehow OK with that?



The crime information is absolutely pertinent to this conversation as well. 30% of inmates are illegal aliens, but only 4% of our total population are illegal aliens. That's ridiculous. For comparison sake, Caucasians make up around 65% of our population and 58% of our inmates. Black/African-American makes up 12% of our population and 39% of our inmates... The number of illegals that are criminals is astounding when you look at total populations. One million sex crimes committed. The STANDARD for a large population? Except, illegals aren't a LARGE population. They are only 4% of our total population!



Things that I know for certain from my time working with illegal aliens from Mexico, and speaking fluent Spanish.



1) The large majority of the money they make here, is sent back to Mexico.



2) The majority of them spend as little as possible in this country, and they inject almost nothing into our economy. They often live illegally(4-5 FAMILIES living in two bedroom apartments)



3) NONE of them pay for medical care. They just go to the emergency room or to free clinics. Who do you think pays for that?



4) MANY of those illegals are using our assistance programs, as mentioned in this article. Food stamps, WIC, welfare, etc. You know where that comes from? Already covered.



5) The majority of these illegals have no intention on staying in this country. They are only making enough money to build homes, buy cars, and stockpile money so they can live like kings in Mexico.



6) Almost all of them drive illegally, and without insurance. So when they get in accidents, guess who pays for it? You guessed it, those that pay into automotive insurance.



Wake up.

They put people out of work not due to their talents, there putting people out of jobs cause they take all the shitty ones and work for less than people like me and you were. Its not their fault the people paying them want to make more money, its how our economy works, greedy people wanting more money. And maybe you work with some guys who have no intention of staying here, but I never met one that has any intention of going back to even see there family, most want them there. Its not easy leaving everything you know to work for pennies while doing shit jobs. And 4% out of 300 million is a huge group of people, you here numbers from 14 to 20 million, that is a huge amount of people, and the sex crimes stat has nothing to do with there effect on the economy it was based on making people hate these "illegal aliens". Just as many white and black people are petting little boys and raping women. And I have my own views on the prison system that would spark arguments in itself, I don't think people should be thrown in jail for a number of non-violent crimes. And btw, that prison stat is a crock of shit. I'll take the NYTimes as a better source than this article. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html





The reason I can't stand articles like this is because of all the aliens I have encountered (of a 3rd kind), not one of them was a criminal, they all are here to stay, came from literally dirt, try their best to speak english, work their asses off to make next to nothing and are better people than I would consider myself. Their hugely orientated around family and helping each other out. So what if they live with uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, grandparents, that sucks, and shouldn't that be a positive? If they all lived individually the article would read how much good American land these illegals take up, hell if it were the case of someone you knew or in your family you'd be talking about the sacrifices they make to get by. My thing is after knowing people who are in all of these statistics, it makes you get over the few extra dollars you lose to. The fact is I am in college and pay little to no bills and I have no extra money other than for gas and beer, but that is the thing, I am in college and am set up for a comfortable type of life, and I'd say that the majority of this board live a decent life, even if it is paycheck to paycheck most of us have a car, heat, food, education, bed, maybe 2 beds, kids, rifles, ice bong, porn, internet, cable, dish. When I worked with one guy I realized he was going home to a 3 bedroom house with 8 people living in it, here I am complaining about the weather or pissed off the Hawks lost. I'd say most of us are educated and most of the jobs being lost to the illegal aliens aren't exactly the ones were after. At the food depository we will give 700 families a day food for about a couple meals. When you see the need and the overwhelming majority having kids under the age of 10 I'll be able to get over the extra money I pay, when did the fact that we were born here make us feel so entitled that we won't help anyone else out? They just don't cost each one of us individually even close to effect our lives significantly.



And I do know there brown and speak broken english. If these people were British and Irish what would be the attitude?





P.S. To further why I don't subscribe to a religion anymore yet still love the ideals of the man they called Jesus, Jesus would have no problem allowing these people to a better life whether it meant they cost him his HDTV or new car, neither do I.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

So because someone works hard, then it is ok for them to do so where it is illegal? I fly planes like an ace, does that mean I can go right ahead and do it illegally because I am so good at it? Or more to your point, just because I'm an excellent worker, does that mean that I can go to Italy and just start working there underthe table, mooching off their social services, and send most of the money I make back to the USA?

Yes, apparently it is cause no one does shit about it. And if the government of Italy did nothing like our yes you could, I don't think Colagero down the street would care. And your example is still completely different. These illegal immigrants aren't coming from a nice house and neighborhood.....

 

[Pez68]

So what you're saying is, if life is rough, it's A-OK to go to another country and be a criminal? How many AMERICANS are living on the streets, or living in terrible conditions, struggling to feed their families, all because illegals took their jobs or drove wages down? We've got our own problems in this country and our priorities should be taking care of our CITIZENS before CRIMINALS FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY. Do you know how many people work their entire lives in this country, paying taxes, supporting their families, and have absolutely nothing to show for it when they cannot work anymore or retire? Excuse me if I don't give a **** about a bunch of illegals who are working in this country illegally. Many of whom contribute nothing to society or our economy. I could give a shit how hard working or how good of a person they are. They don't belong here, exploiting our system, stealing our tax dollars, and taking jobs from citizens that need the jobs just as much as they do, if not more.



If I'm ever out of work, struggling to feed my family and pay my bills, I'll be sure to come by and rob you. After all, I'm just trying to better myself and support my family, so you really shouldn't have a problem with it. Your viewpoint is ridiculous. When you start working a real job, and see how much of your money is going to pay for the programs that these people are exploiting, maybe you'll feel differently. If you were a hard working, uneducated American whose labor/industry job was lost to some illegals you might feel differently about the subject. You're a college student who has no bills, and little to no responsibility, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.



You do realize there are people in this country that work for a living, just like these illegals, right? People that can't get jobs because they're taken by illegals? You really have no idea.

 

[TSD]

They put people out of work not due to their talents, there putting people out of jobs cause they take all the shitty ones and work for less than people like me and you were. Its not their fault the people paying them want to make more money, its how our economy works, greedy people wanting more money. And maybe you work with some guys who have no intention of staying here, but I never met one that has any intention of going back to even see there family, most want them there. Its not easy leaving everything you know to work for pennies while doing shit jobs. And 4% out of 300 million is a huge group of people, you here numbers from 14 to 20 million, that is a huge amount of people, and the sex crimes stat has nothing to do with there effect on the economy it was based on making people hate these "illegal aliens". Just as many white and black people are petting little boys and raping women. And I have my own views on the prison system that would spark arguments in itself, I don't think people should be thrown in jail for a number of non-violent crimes. And btw, that prison stat is a crock of shit. I'll take the NYTimes as a better source than this article. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html





The reason I can't stand articles like this is because of all the aliens I have encountered (of a 3rd kind), not one of them was a criminal, they all are here to stay, came from literally dirt, try their best to speak english, work their asses off to make next to nothing and are better people than I would consider myself. Their hugely orientated around family and helping each other out. So what if they live with uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, grandparents, that sucks, and shouldn't that be a positive? If they all lived individually the article would read how much good American land these illegals take up, hell if it were the case of someone you knew or in your family you'd be talking about the sacrifices they make to get by. My thing is after knowing people who are in all of these statistics, it makes you get over the few extra dollars you lose to. The fact is I am in college and pay little to no bills and I have no extra money other than for gas and beer, but that is the thing, I am in college and am set up for a comfortable type of life, and I'd say that the majority of this board live a decent life, even if it is paycheck to paycheck most of us have a car, heat, food, education, bed, maybe 2 beds, kids, rifles, ice bong, porn, internet, cable, dish. When I worked with one guy I realized he was going home to a 3 bedroom house with 8 people living in it, here I am complaining about the weather or pissed off the Hawks lost. I'd say most of us are educated and most of the jobs being lost to the illegal aliens aren't exactly the ones were after. At the food depository we will give 700 families a day food for about a couple meals. When you see the need and the overwhelming majority having kids under the age of 10 I'll be able to get over the extra money I pay, when did the fact that we were born here make us feel so entitled that we won't help anyone else out? They just don't cost each one of us individually even close to effect our lives significantly.



And I do know there brown and speak broken english. If these people were British and Irish what would be the attitude?





P.S. To further why I don't subscribe to a religion anymore yet still love the ideals of the man they called Jesus, Jesus would have no problem allowing these people to a better life whether it meant they cost him his HDTV or new car, neither do I.

Depends on the time frame. If we are talking late 19th century early 20th century, native born Americans were just as nasty to the massive waves of European immigrants as many appear to be to mexican immigrants now.





Both sides of this argument like to quote mine, twist statistics, and use fear tactics to rally more to their cause.



Do I like the idea illegal immigrants are a drain on the system? No. Do I think most illegal mexican immigrants are nefarious characters? No. What needs to happen is a more secure border AND an easier path to citizenship. With citizenship they can pay taxes.



Don't get me wrong I am not mother Teresa over here, people should not be allowed to come into this country and have our tax dollars support them out of the goodness of our hearts, just because I have a pretty good life, nobody gave me that.



So you can say I understand and relate to both sides of the argument. I dont think just leavin them illegals alone is right, and I dont believe the Maginot line of the southwest along with mass deportations is the right course of action either.



Im hateful to though, I fucking despise polish immigrants, they smell like BO and speak that filthy pig latin, at least mexicans wash themselves and speak a language derived from the tongue of the civilized.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

So what you're saying is, if life is rough, it's A-OK to go to another country and be a criminal? How many AMERICANS are living on the streets, or living in terrible conditions, struggling to feed their families, all because illegals took their jobs or drove wages down? We've got our own problems in this country and our priorities should be taking care of our CITIZENS before CRIMINALS FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY. Do you know how many people work their entire lives in this country, paying taxes, supporting their families, and have absolutely nothing to show for it when they cannot work anymore or retire? Excuse me if I don't give a **** about a bunch of illegals who are working in this country illegally. Many of whom contribute nothing to society or our economy. I could give a shit how hard working or how good of a person they are. They don't belong here, exploiting our system, stealing our tax dollars, and taking jobs from citizens that need the jobs just as much as they do, if not more.



If I'm ever out of work, struggling to feed my family and pay my bills, I'll be sure to come by and rob you. After all, I'm just trying to better myself and support my family, so you really shouldn't have a problem with it. Your viewpoint is ridiculous. When you start working a real job, and see how much of your money is going to pay for the programs that these people are exploiting, maybe you'll feel differently. If you were a hard working, uneducated American whose labor/industry job was lost to some illegals you might feel differently about the subject. You're a college student who has no bills, and little to no responsibility, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.



You do realize there are people in this country that work for a living, just like these illegals, right? People that can't get jobs because they're taken by illegals? You really have no idea.

I can't even argue, there not criminals at all in my mind. If they commit a crime other than that of being here then there a criminal. And good irrelevant argument of you coming to rob me, these people are not coming and taking what you own, what effect have they made on your life? Tell me the horrible sacrifices you have made on there behalf? And when I start a job if the illegal immigrant problem is solved then people will be bitching about money given to the criminal black people or to whatever group comes next. And how many americans are on the street with there families because of illegal aliens?....not many I've been going to homeless shelters since I was 13 every week and the peoples stories have never mentioned illegal aliens taking their jobs. How about you go out and see the people on the streets and hear how they got there. Most are due to alcohol or drug problems, some just can't get anything right, some lost their jobs but I've never heard, "I'm out of a job and on the street because my job was taken by a mexican". To me an American is no more important than a person from Mexican were all human beings.



And no I don't realize that people work for a living thats absurd..... and yes people get jobs taken by illegals, because of the greedy bosses and business owners. Not to mention the real issue of jobs in the fields that immigrants take is that much more are lost due to businesses outsourcing.

 

[TSD]

I can't even argue, there not criminals at all in my mind. If they commit a crime other than that of being here then there a criminal. And good irrelevant argument of you coming to rob me, these people are not coming and taking what you own, what effect have they made on your life? Tell me the horrible sacrifices you have made on there behalf? And when I start a job if the illegal immigrant problem is solved then people will be bitching about money given to the criminal black people or to whatever group comes next. And how many americans are on the street with there families because of illegal aliens?....not many I've been going to homeless shelters since I was 13 every week and the peoples stories have never mentioned illegal aliens taking their jobs. How about you go out and see the people on the streets and hear how they got there. Most are due to alcohol or drug problems, some just can't get anything right, some lost their jobs but I've never heard, "I'm out of a job and on the street because my job was taken by a mexican". To me an American is no more important than a person from Mexican were all human beings.



And no I don't realize that people work for a living thats absurd..... and yes people get jobs taken by illegals, because of the greedy bosses and business owners. Not to mention the real issue of jobs in the fields that immigrants take is that much more are lost due to businesses outsourcing.

Don't be so quick to label all "anti-illegal" people as racist. While some of them may be not all of them are. Its like I was saying earlier both sides like to bend the truth to spread fear tactics. "All the anti illegal people are swastika carrying, pointy hood wearing racists!". Its just as bad as the other side claiming all illegals are waiting around the corner to rape your daughter, force you to speak spanish and eat tacos.



If anything I would say they are more Nationalist, than racist.



PSR you idea of just letting them come here, and leaving them alone would be fine were this an open system. There are really ALOT coming here. The system cant support that if more and more people that are using government benefits and not paying back into the system.



I do support an easier path to citizenship though AND a tighter border, but we simply cant just let everyone who wants to just show up and live here, the system simply cant support that, you dont notice it much now, but eventually if it keeps on, the system will not be able to support the influx of immigrants, that happened in the western roman empire when they let barbarian tribes settle en masse in the empire to become feodorati. On top of that just letting well enough alone, alot of these people die trying to come here of exposure, starvation, dehydration, violence etc.



I am all for doing right by ones fellow man, but unfortunately its just not the way it can work sometimes and you have to accept that. Its the reason communism doesnt work, the idea is nice, but it simply cannot work the way it is intended to.

 

[Pez68]

How are they not criminals? First, they are here illegally. Then, they go out and get a fake social security card in order to get a job. Then, they go out and get a fake driver's license so they can drive. Then they drive illegally, and without insurance. Then you've got the ones receiving welfare, WIC, food stamps, and other benefits intended for the CITIZENS of this country that need help. How many fucking laws do they need to break before you see them for what they are? They are fucking criminals. It is pretty cut and dry. If I forged my identity in order to make hundreds of thousands of dollars over a 10 year period of time, would I not be a criminal? They are no different than all the white collar criminals in jail for fraud, identity theft, etc.



Yeah, you're right. Most of those homeless people that can't get a job are alcoholics and drug addicts. You realize how absurd that sounds?



My point is, how many of those people living on the streets might not be living on the streets, if they could get a job washing dishes, cutting grass, delivering furniture, installing carpet, hauling trash, or cleaning toilets? You know, the jobs that are currently dominated by illegal immigrants? You really think all those homeless people are folks out of work because their office job got outsourced? LOL, come on.



Oh, and they ARE stealing from people, your perspective is just skewed for whatever reason. They're stealing tax dollars, they're stealing from our government, they're taking benefits that might be denied from CITIZENS of this country, and they're stealing jobs that might keep people in their home and off the streets.



By the way, your link is from 2007, using statistics from more than five years ago... So, no, your source is no better than the one used in the article.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

How are they not criminals? First, they are here illegally. Then, they go out and get a fake social security card in order to get a job. Then, they go out and get a fake driver's license so they can drive. Then they drive illegally, and without insurance. Then you've got the ones receiving welfare, WIC, food stamps, and other benefits intended for the CITIZENS of this country that need help. How many fucking laws do they need to break before you see them for what they are? They are fucking criminals. It is pretty cut and dry. If I forged my identity in order to make hundreds of thousands of dollars over a 10 year period of time, would I not be a criminal? They are no different than all the white collar criminals in jail for fraud, identity theft, etc.



Yeah, you're right. Most of those homeless people that can't get a job are alcoholics and drug addicts. You realize how absurd that sounds?



My point is, how many of those people living on the streets might not be living on the streets, if they could get a job washing dishes, cutting grass, delivering furniture, installing carpet, hauling trash, or cleaning toilets? You know, the jobs that are currently dominated by illegal immigrants? You really think all those homeless people are folks out of work because their office job got outsourced? LOL, come on.



Oh, and they ARE stealing from people, your perspective is just skewed for whatever reason. They're stealing tax dollars, they're stealing from our government, they're taking benefits that might be denied from CITIZENS of this country, and they're stealing jobs that might keep people in their home and off the streets.



By the way, your link is from 2007, using statistics from more than five years ago... So, no, your source is no better than the one used in the article.

Yes, the overwhelming majority of the homeless people I deal with are alcoholics and drug addicts, whether it be recovering or not, sorry I actually have experience with the subject of homelessness. And most illegal aliens don't fake social security to get a job, most that have jobs with small businesses are paid under the table. The ones I worked with had no license or social security. Its not hard to get a car from one of the 15 fledgeling dealers on 50th and western. One guy I knew wouldn't drive anywhere but in the Chicago area. And when did I ever point towards the notion homeless people got laid off from an office, one guy I knew got laid off cause his company was outsourced, he couldn't get a job for a year and his wife divorced him, and there he was at the shelter.



Since you feel so strongly about this issue and these clear cut criminals why don't you be proactive and do something about it, you said you know some illegal's, go to the police and alert them. They'll get right on it....................

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Don't be so quick to label all "anti-illegal" people as racist. While some of them may be not all of them are. Its like I was saying earlier both sides like to bend the truth to spread fear tactics. "All the anti illegal people are swastika carrying, pointy hood wearing racists!". Its just as bad as the other side claiming all illegals are waiting around the corner to rape your daughter, force you to speak spanish and eat tacos.



If anything I would say they are more Nationalist, than racist.



PSR you idea of just letting them come here, and leaving them alone would be fine were this an open system. There are really ALOT coming here. The system cant support that if more and more people that are using government benefits and not paying back into the system.



I do support an easier path to citizenship though AND a tighter border, but we simply cant just let everyone who wants to just show up and live here, the system simply cant support that, you dont notice it much now, but eventually if it keeps on, the system will not be able to support the influx of immigrants, that happened in the western roman empire when they let barbarian tribes settle en masse in the empire to become feodorati. On top of that just letting well enough alone, alot of these people die trying to come here of exposure, starvation, dehydration, violence etc.



I am all for doing right by ones fellow man, but unfortunately its just not the way it can work sometimes and you have to accept that. Its the reason communism doesnt work, the idea is nice, but it simply cannot work the way it is intended to.

I understand, and my idea isn't to just let them come here and leach, but the ones that do and are aren't evil in my eyes. The government just isn't doing anything about it and at this point I'm not sure how to approach it. Obama mentioned giving all illegal immigrants licenses but I haven't heard anything on the topic since. There are measures that could be taken to at least attempt to fix it but nothing seems to be happening. So in the mean time if Julio is living with Hector, Selena, and 5 other family members and scraping by washing dishes, yes I don't give a ****.



Once again, please someone present how illegal immigrants are making life horrible, I am sure there's some examples. Still in the grand scheme us Americans who are sitting on the internet arguing are living pretty comfortably.

 

[Pez68]

Well if that's the case, you have very little experience with illegal aliens. I knew very, very few that didn't have a fake social security card and fake license. Most of them purchased down at 22nd and California, if you need to know. ALL of the illegals that work with my brother-in-law are working under fake social security numbers.



Obviously they're not making life "horrible" for people that have good jobs, that are making a good living. We just have to pay a portion of the money we EARN towards supporting them. Whether it be entitlement programs they are leeching off of, or medical services they aren't paying for. We are paying for them. What a stupid fucking argument. "Illegal aliens aren't affecting the middle or upper-middle class, so who cares!!!!"



They are making life "horrible" for people that can't get a fucking job. You know, a substantial portion of the 10% of this country not working right now? I know several people that were let go from their jobs because illegals would do the job cheaper and without benefits. The problem is, you obviously live a rather sheltered life, and don't have much interaction with the people whose jobs they are taking, or whose jobs they are driving down wages on. I do, and the problems aren't fucking make-believe.



To clarify, I don't hate these people, and I don't think they're evil. Hell, I used to drink with them and hang out after work. That doesn't mean I don't have a problem with what they're doing, or how fucking oblivious our government is towards the problem.

 

[TSD]

I understand, and my idea isn't to just let them come here and leach, but the ones that do and are aren't evil in my eyes. The government just isn't doing anything about it and at this point I'm not sure how to approach it. Obama mentioned giving all illegal immigrants licenses but I haven't heard anything on the topic since. There are measures that could be taken to at least attempt to fix it but nothing seems to be happening. So in the mean time if Julio is living with Hector, Selena, and 5 other family members and scraping by washing dishes, yes I don't give a ****.



Once again, please someone present how illegal immigrants are making life horrible, I am sure there's some examples. Still in the grand scheme us Americans who are sitting on the internet arguing are living pretty comfortably.

No, i agree with you that the majority of illegal immigrants are just trying to make a better life for themselves.



On the second point, when you are out of college and paying taxes and supporting yourself (with no student loans federal aid, parents or what have you) when you realize your making 60 grand a year adding a meager couple hundred (if that)to savings each paycheck and your only splurge is cable TV, because the government takes half your paycheck, then your state raises taxes, and you realize there are people just leaching off your tax dollars, and your government just keeps taking more and more, it really starts to piss you off. Again, you point to people "agruing on the internet living pretty comfortably" people want to protect what they have earned for themselves, taxes just keep going up and up, taking more and more from them. I didnt get a free ride for what I have, i grew up raised by a single mother who refused to get public aid when she could in a shit neighborhood. So it can piss people of even when some (and some could be hundreds of thousands) come here and leach off our tax dollars without ever paying into it.



Right now it seems more the principal than the effect, but I am telling you if we let it go on and go on and go on it will be affecting us. In an environment where state governments have no money, our country is in debt, how can you say it "has no effect on us". We felt the effect here in illinois when they raised taxes because our state is bankrupt.



Again I am not extreme, I am more for extending citizenship than deportation. The cultural/racial aspect is irrelevant to me. Cultures change, racial makeups change its the nature of the beast, but a country cannot handle a constant influx of non-tax paying citizens who send all their money back to their home country and put nothing into our economy. It hurts our country plain and simple.

Well if that's the case, you have very little experience with illegal aliens. I knew very, very few that didn't have a fake social security card and fake license. Most of them purchased down at 22nd and California, if you need to know. ALL of the illegals that work with my brother-in-law are working under fake social security numbers.



Obviously they're not making life "horrible" for people that have good jobs, that are making a good living. We just have to pay a portion of the money we EARN towards supporting them. Whether it be entitlement programs they are leeching off of, or medical services they aren't paying for. We are paying for them. What a stupid fucking argument. "Illegal aliens aren't affecting the middle or upper-middle class, so who cares!!!!"



They are making life "horrible" for people that can't get a fucking job. You know, a substantial portion of the 10% of this country not working right now? I know several people that were let go from their jobs because illegals would do the job cheaper and without benefits. The problem is, you obviously live a rather sheltered life, and don't have much interaction with the people whose jobs they are taking, or whose jobs they are driving down wages on. I do, and the problems aren't fucking make-believe.



To clarify, I don't hate these people, and I don't think they're evil. Hell, I used to drink with them and hang out after work. That doesn't mean I don't have a problem with what they're doing, or how fucking oblivious our government is towards the problem.

Just as a side note, my roomate in college was an accounting major, her worked at H&R block during tax season for extra cash, In one season he had 35 tax returns denied on hispanic customers because the SS numbers they used were non-existant or from dead people.



From the opposite perspective, I know plenty of people who have been on unemployment who milk the system, and are too picky about the jobs they can get to get off of it. While I would work a register at mcdonalds before collecting unemployment if I could.

 

[Pez68]

From the opposite perspective, I know plenty of people who have been on unemployment who milk the system, and are too picky about the jobs they can get to get off of it. While I would work a register at mcdonalds before collecting unemployment if I could.

Absolutely. But, at the same time, most of those people have paid into the system at some point. Right?

 

[TSD]

Absolutely. But, at the same time, most of those people have paid into the system at some point. Right?

touche, motherfucker. no offense meant, you are completely right.

 

[ytsejam]

I can respect PSR's compassion for his fellow man and also the live and let live attitude, but I think TSD has made the most logical points.



I have a question though.

Just as a side note, my roomate in college was an accounting major, her worked at H&R block during tax season for extra cash, In one season he had 35 tax returns denied on hispanic customers because the SS numbers they used were non-existant or from dead people.

If people are obtaining false SS #s to get work, and are denied "their" tax return, doesn't that mean that they have income tax withheld from their paychecks just like the rest of us? That would dampen the "illegals pay no taxes" argument a bit. (not that you said that, TSD)

 

[Pez68]

I can respect PSR's compassion for his fellow man and also the live and let live attitude, but I think TSD has made the most logical points.



I have a question though.





If people are obtaining false SS #s to get work, and are denied "their" tax return, doesn't that mean that they have income tax withheld from their paychecks just like the rest of us? That would dampen the "illegals pay no taxes" argument a bit. (not that you said that, TSD)

Depends on how many dependents they claim, now doesn't it? If said illegals, working here under fake social security numbers, claimed, say, six dependents, how much do you think was withheld from their checks?

You think these people are intelligent enough to know how to get fake social security numbers, licenses, welfare checks, WIC cards, food stamps, and don't know how to reduce the income tax withheld from their checks? Seriously, they know ALL the ways to cheat our government.

Simply put, the government and the people in this country are losing money on illegals, hand over fist. Any way you look at it.