In Honor of Fred - Hinrich GONE

[RC_Skinny22]

The reaction of many fans is just normal when a player has to go who played for his team a very long time. Gordon, Hinrich and Deng are those 3 players from the past. They were not the greatest players but they were the best Chicago had for some years.

It all depends on who the Bulls can get during this offseason. If they get Lebron then nobody will talk about Gordon and Hinrich again. But if the Bulls can´t get anyone then you better be not on this forum.

 

[Kush77]

The drones do exist, but like J-Mart said, they're smart enough to know that moving Kirk gives the Bulls a better chance at signing two players.

If the Bulls can pull this off, it would be great. But I'll wait until July 1st or 8th, whatever date. I'm sick of all the talk and rumors and folks in the inner circle. I'm ready to see some actual news. A press conference with LBJ or Bosh.

And people need to stop painting this picture that people who like Ben Gordon (like me) somehow would've preferred to keep Gordon instead of pursuing James. That just ludicrous.

Ben Gordon missed his chance to sign the contract that was offered in the Summer of 2008. Which mean the Bulls actually had a deal on the table for him.

Point being, nobody in the Bulls organization was thinking about LBJ in 2008 or even 2009. LBJ possibly coming to the Bulls didn't become a realistic option until the night of May 13th 2010.

But now folks want to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they knew this plan would fall into place as it has. Spare me.

I hope the Bulls land James and Bosh, that would at least 4 or 5 titles, maybe more.

Hell, a team with LBJ, Bosh, Rose and Noah could win 70. I don't know about 73, losing 9 games in a season would be hard to pull off. But I'm not trying to think about stuff like that until something actually happens.

 

[pinkizdead]

hey, if it means anything, i dont think anyone would disagree that gordon would be a better fit on this team than deng. if we had gordon, sign lebron and bosh, then give salmons the mle for the next 5 years.

rose/vetmin pg/ gordon
gordon/salmons/lebron
lebron/salmons/jj
bosh/taj/noah/jj/lebron
noah/vet min player

that's a lot of good shooting.

i like the idea of trading deng for either murphy or okur. we'd get some outside shooting/floor spacing. bring them off the bench. but eh, both teams have a log jam at forward, so it's a long shot.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Sure Gordon would fit better in the sense that he's a SG that can hit 3's consistently and the team kinda needs one right now, but if you have a Rose/LeBron/Bosh/Noah core, who the heck cares who your SG is? That SG isn't going to get a lot of shots and will be like the 4th or 5th option on offense. Gordon would not be willing to do that IMO. With that lineup, you could live with Hinrich at SG and just have him be the defensive specialist. Of course, he's gone now, so what he does doesn't matter either.

 

[houheffna]

Point being, nobody in the Bulls organization was thinking about LBJ in 2008 or even 2009. LBJ possibly coming to the Bulls didn't become a realistic option until the night of May 13th 2010.

You don't believe they were "thinking" about Lebron? Really? I beg to differ. I believe he was at the top of their list from the beginning. They were going to take a token shot at him...if nothing less...same thing the White Sox did with ARod, the Bulls did with Kobe, they were going to take a shot at Lebron. I have no doubt about that...

Their chances of getting him greatly improved over the spring. But I believe they cleared the cap space to get the best. And that is Lebron.

They only took on expiring contracts in 2008-2009 for this reason, and even contemplated getting rid of one of their draft picks last year in anticipation of this.

KC Johnson has been saying that the Bulls were thinking of getting 2 free agents since last season. They were eyeing moves with this in mind all along. They didn't know that Lebron would be this ready to leave Cleveland, but they did know that Lebron would be available. The moment that they realized that Lebron, Wade, Bosh and others were going to be FA's,they planned for it.

Of course now its about Lebron, but they were going to go after him anyway! Lets not act as if Paxson came out of some smokey lab with some new idea...this was planned. Reinsdorf has a history of going after the best. He felt that letting most of the players go that he let go was in his best interests for 2010.

 

[pinkizdead]

clonetrooper264 wrote:

Sure Gordon would fit better in the sense that he's a SG that can hit 3's consistently and the team kinda needs one right now, but if you have a Rose/LeBron/Bosh/Noah core, who the heck cares who your SG is? That SG isn't going to get a lot of shots and will be like the 4th or 5th option on offense. Gordon would not be willing to do that IMO. With that lineup, you could live with Hinrich at SG and just have him be the defensive specialist. Of course, he's gone now, so what he does doesn't matter either.

morrow and a shooting big man off the bench!

 

[brett05]

The Sox were the second highest offer when he was a FA. They offered 121 million, Texas thought they needed to double that offer.

 

[Shakes]

Kush77 wrote:

And people need to stop painting this picture that people who like Ben Gordon (like me) somehow would've preferred to keep Gordon instead of pursuing James. That just ludicrous.

I've said all along that I would sacrifice the whole team for a couple of percent chance at LeBron. You can't have it both ways, you can't just say "Oh I want LeBron" after being all "Oh I hate management for letting Gordon go" all year.

If people still say "losing Gordon even if we get LeBron was the wrong thing to do, because getting LeBron was just a low percentage bit of luck" then I can respect that position. Don't agree with it, but at least it's consistent. But to be honest most people here are now bandwagoning this LeBron train after pining for Gordon all season.

But now folks want to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they knew this plan would fall into place as it has. Spare me.

I disagree with Hou on a lot of things, but he's been one of the few who have been consistent about Gordon being a fair price to pay for a shot at FAs.

 

[Fred]

Kush77 wrote:

The drones do exist, but like J-Mart said, they're smart enough to know that moving Kirk gives the Bulls a better chance at signing two players.

If the Bulls can pull this off, it would be great. But I'll wait until July 1st or 8th, whatever date. I'm sick of all the talk and rumors and folks in the inner circle. I'm ready to see some actual news. A press conference with LBJ or Bosh.

And people need to stop painting this picture that people who like Ben Gordon (like me) somehow would've preferred to keep Gordon instead of pursuing James. That just ludicrous.

Ben Gordon missed his chance to sign the contract that was offered in the Summer of 2008. Which mean the Bulls actually had a deal on the table for him.

Point being, nobody in the Bulls organization was thinking about LBJ in 2008 or even 2009. LBJ possibly coming to the Bulls didn't become a realistic option until the night of May 13th 2010.

But now folks want to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they knew this plan would fall into place as it has. Spare me.

I hope the Bulls land James and Bosh, that would at least 4 or 5 titles, maybe more.

Hell, a team with LBJ, Bosh, Rose and Noah could win 70. I don't know about 73, losing 9 games in a season would be hard to pull off. But I'm not trying to think about stuff like that until something actually happens.

Great post Kush. If the Bulls actually had that deal on the table, then they weren't thinking of signing James. If the Bulls actually wanted to go after James, and they never actually offered a contract to Gordon, then why did management give the impression that Ben waited too long to sign a contract that was actually never on the table.

 

[houheffna]

I've said all along that I would sacrifice the whole team for a couple of percent chance at LeBron. You can't have it both ways, you can't just say "Oh I want LeBron" after being all "Oh I hate management for letting Gordon go" all year.

If people still say "losing Gordon even if we get LeBron was the wrong thing to do, because getting LeBron was just a low percentage bit of luck" then I can respect that position. Don't agree with it, but at least it's consistent. But to be honest most people here are now bandwagoning this LeBron train after pining for Gordon all season.

Exactly right...What Reinsdorf did with Gordon was friggin genius. The Bulls gave up Gordon to get a shot a Lebron. The Pistons gave up Billups to get...Gordon??? Seriously?


The quotes can be pulled from the archive...don't make me do research!

People on here said that losing Gordon was not worth the position this team is in now, because of a chance, a chance, they might strike out. I ask you, would you give up your position now...and let Gordon come back? Would you?

It was stated, how the Bulls "missed" Ben Gordon.

And I stated that the Bulls are thinking about 7/1/2010. I continued to say that Paxson and company DO NOT CARE about the current season, the real season starts when free agency starts. Point blank. I am not patting myself on the back, but putting the limelight on people who lamented incessantly about how badly the franchise treated Gordon.

Right now, at this very moment, as we speak...it was worth it. Absolutely worth it! If Lebron comes out at a press conference and laughs at Chicago and calls us fools, it was still worth it...because we didn't give up much for the effort in the first place!

And by the way...if Reinsdorf, the same guy who owned the team when MJ played and was the top corporate mind behind a basketball dynasty...brought in Lebron James, is he not the greatest sports owner in Chicago Sports history??? I think the argument can be made already, but this would be very impressive on that resume...

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

I've said all along that I would sacrifice the whole team for a couple of percent chance at LeBron. You can't have it both ways, you can't just say "Oh I want LeBron" after being all "Oh I hate management for letting Gordon go" all year.

If people still say "losing Gordon even if we get LeBron was the wrong thing to do, because getting LeBron was just a low percentage bit of luck" then I can respect that position. Don't agree with it, but at least it's consistent. But to be honest most people here are now bandwagoning this LeBron train after pining for Gordon all season.

Exactly right...What Reinsdorf did with Gordon was friggin genius. The Bulls gave up Gordon to get a shot a Lebron. The Pistons gave up Billups to get...Gordon??? Seriously?


The quotes can be pulled from the archive...don't make me do research!

People on here said that losing Gordon was not worth the position this team is in now, because of a chance, a chance, they might strike out. I ask you, would you give up your position now...and let Gordon come back? Would you?

It was stated, how the Bulls "missed" Ben Gordon.

And I stated that the Bulls are thinking about 7/1/2010. I continued to say that Paxson and company DO NOT CARE about the current season, the real season starts when free agency starts. Point blank. I am not patting myself on the back, but putting the limelight on people who lamented incessantly about how badly the franchise treated Gordon.

Right now, at this very moment, as we speak...it was worth it. Absolutely worth it! If Lebron comes out at a press conference and laughs at Chicago and calls us fools, it was still worth it...because we didn't give up much for the effort in the first place!

And by the way...if Reinsdorf, the same guy who owned the team when MJ played and was the top corporate mind behind a basketball dynasty...brought in Lebron James, is he not the greatest sports owner in Chicago Sports history??? I think the argument can be made already, but this would be very impressive on that resume...

Honestly, the way you are rewriting history is incredible. The argument that the majority of Gordon fans have always made is that the Bulls should have paid Gordon instead of Deng and moved Hinrich years ago. You can go back to the show where we signed Deng, and I said it. Paxson admited in Feb of 2009 that he could have traded Hinrich for expirings, but he felt he deserved something more for Hinrich. How could you be thinking of signing Lebron and make that decision? He was absolutely wrong. Gordon could easily still be on this team, making 9 million a year, and Deng could be somewhere else and Hinrich could be a Timberwolf since 2008, and we would be in a better situation that we are now. The Bulls deserve credit for finally realizing that Hinrich was a liability, not an asset. It cost us a number 1 pick just to get him off the damn roster. But let's not act like all these moves were great, because Deng is still vastly overpaid and a albatross on this roster.

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

I've said all along that I would sacrifice the whole team for a couple of percent chance at LeBron. You can't have it both ways, you can't just say "Oh I want LeBron" after being all "Oh I hate management for letting Gordon go" all year.

If people still say "losing Gordon even if we get LeBron was the wrong thing to do, because getting LeBron was just a low percentage bit of luck" then I can respect that position. Don't agree with it, but at least it's consistent. But to be honest most people here are now bandwagoning this LeBron train after pining for Gordon all season.

Exactly right...What Reinsdorf did with Gordon was friggin genius. The Bulls gave up Gordon to get a shot a Lebron. The Pistons gave up Billups to get...Gordon??? Seriously?


The quotes can be pulled from the archive...don't make me do research!

People on here said that losing Gordon was not worth the position this team is in now, because of a chance, a chance, they might strike out. I ask you, would you give up your position now...and let Gordon come back? Would you?

It was stated, how the Bulls "missed" Ben Gordon.

And I stated that the Bulls are thinking about 7/1/2010. I continued to say that Paxson and company DO NOT CARE about the current season, the real season starts when free agency starts. Point blank. I am not patting myself on the back, but putting the limelight on people who lamented incessantly about how badly the franchise treated Gordon.

Right now, at this very moment, as we speak...it was worth it. Absolutely worth it! If Lebron comes out at a press conference and laughs at Chicago and calls us fools, it was still worth it...because we didn't give up much for the effort in the first place!

And by the way...if Reinsdorf, the same guy who owned the team when MJ played and was the top corporate mind behind a basketball dynasty...brought in Lebron James, is he not the greatest sports owner in Chicago Sports history??? I think the argument can be made already, but this would be very impressive on that resume...

If what you said was true, then why was this trade not made? Hinrich was actually worse LESS than spare parts. You had to actually give up an asset to trade him.

http://www.blogabull.com/2010/1/29/1283901/bulls-turn-down-celtics-spare

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

I've said all along that I would sacrifice the whole team for a couple of percent chance at LeBron. You can't have it both ways, you can't just say "Oh I want LeBron" after being all "Oh I hate management for letting Gordon go" all year.

If people still say "losing Gordon even if we get LeBron was the wrong thing to do, because getting LeBron was just a low percentage bit of luck" then I can respect that position. Don't agree with it, but at least it's consistent. But to be honest most people here are now bandwagoning this LeBron train after pining for Gordon all season.

Right now, at this very moment, as we speak...it was worth it. Absolutely worth it! If Lebron comes out at a press conference and laughs at Chicago and calls us fools, it was still worth it...because we didn't give up much for the effort in the first place!

Didn't give up much? They gave up 3 first round picks:

#2 overall (Thomas)
#3 overall (Gordan)
#7 overall (Hinrich)

Can we quit acting like this was some brilliant plan by management to get us into this position. It's not a sign of brillance to shed cap space and send assests away for nothing. Someone as incompetant as Donald Sterling was able to do the same damn thing...the only difference is that he wasn't lucky enough to win the 1.8% Derrick Rose lottery.

 

[houheffna]

"Bulls management isn't allowed to comment publicly on the impending Hinrich trade until July 8. But one person familiar with the front office's thinking said the Bulls recognized Hinrich's value as a glue guy and overcame their own emotional attachment to such a behind-the-scenes leader to make the business decision of pursuing greatness, albeit unknown greatness."-KC Johnson

I know that coaches -- and Hinrich played for four in Bill Cartwright, Scott Skiles, Jim Boylan and Vinny Del Negro -- loved him and so did his teammates-KC Johnson

Gordon asked for $15 million last season and didn’t budge. The Bulls offered $10 million and didn’t budge.

Next!-Sam Smith

The organization loved Hinrich more than Gordon. Hinirich was a "company guy" in the same vein as Pax, B.J., Kerr, etc. He worked his butt off and helmed the leadership role on the team for half a decade. Reinsdorf loves those type of guys. Gordon was not a "JR guy". The moment Gordon stood in front of the media and stated he should be paid 15mil+...he was a goner. And since his talent was not top 30 in the league...he was expendable. Agree or disagree, that is the way it is...

Hinrich was overvalued by the team. I believe that the Bulls played roulette when it came to Hinrich and even Deng. I believe they felt all along they could trade Hinrich whenver they wanted to. They would have rather traded Deng. Hinrich's skills compliment Lebron and even Wade very well. So if it was up to them, they would rather keep Hinrich on a depreciating contract, then sign him for cheap in a couple of years. Unfortunately, the Bulls couldn't get rid of Deng like they wanted...so Hinrich left.

I have said that they all are expendable. Hinrich was a liability because of his contract, he would have been great as a third guard for the right price. Acting as if Hinrich is Satan is overkill.

 

[houheffna]

Didn't give up much? They gave up 3 first round picks:

#2 overall (Thomas)
#3 overall (Gordan)
#7 overall (Hinrich)

Can we quit acting like this was some brilliant plan by management to get us into this position. It's not a sign of brillance to shed cap space and send assests away for nothing. Someone as incompetant as Donald Sterling was able to do the same damn thing...the only difference is that he wasn't lucky enough to win the 1.8% Derrick Rose lottery.

Sometimes its better to be lucky than good.

Can we quit acting as if those were players worth keeping? My goodness, those were not great picks and none of them...again, are top 30 in the league. They represented nothing but cap space.

How many all-league awards amongst this group?
How many all-star appearances?

What the Bulls have done has been planned. If they pull it off, its great work on their part. They put themselves in perfect position.

What I would think you and I should agree on is that the Bulls can pull this off despite being "so damn disloyal" to Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan and of course, Ben Gordon, who according to people on here, you would thing got dragged by the Bulls on the back of a dump truck...

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

I've said all along that I would sacrifice the whole team for a couple of percent chance at LeBron. You can't have it both ways, you can't just say "Oh I want LeBron" after being all "Oh I hate management for letting Gordon go" all year.

If people still say "losing Gordon even if we get LeBron was the wrong thing to do, because getting LeBron was just a low percentage bit of luck" then I can respect that position. Don't agree with it, but at least it's consistent. But to be honest most people here are now bandwagoning this LeBron train after pining for Gordon all season.

Exactly right...What Reinsdorf did with Gordon was friggin genius. The Bulls gave up Gordon to get a shot a Lebron. The Pistons gave up Billups to get...Gordon??? Seriously?


The quotes can be pulled from the archive...don't make me do research!

People on here said that losing Gordon was not worth the position this team is in now, because of a chance, a chance, they might strike out. I ask you, would you give up your position now...and let Gordon come back? Would you?

It was stated, how the Bulls "missed" Ben Gordon.

And I stated that the Bulls are thinking about 7/1/2010. I continued to say that Paxson and company DO NOT CARE about the current season, the real season starts when free agency starts. Point blank. I am not patting myself on the back, but putting the limelight on people who lamented incessantly about how badly the franchise treated Gordon.

Right now, at this very moment, as we speak...it was worth it. Absolutely worth it! If Lebron comes out at a press conference and laughs at Chicago and calls us fools, it was still worth it...because we didn't give up much for the effort in the first place!

And by the way...if Reinsdorf, the same guy who owned the team when MJ played and was the top corporate mind behind a basketball dynasty...brought in Lebron James, is he not the greatest sports owner in Chicago Sports history??? I think the argument can be made already, but this would be very impressive on that resume...

are you high?

the bulls said, hey lets let this shooter go,
lets sign this guy for a huge contract who plays the exact same position, isn't a tradeable asset and actually can't play with james at all.

yeah lets get rid of the complimentary player, sign this guy who doesnt fit at all, then lets go after james.

 

[houheffna]

[are you high?

the bulls said, hey lets let this shooter go,
lets sign this guy for a huge contract who plays the exact same position, isn't a tradeable asset and actually can't play with james at all.

yeah lets get rid of the complimentary player, sign this guy who doesnt fit at all, then lets go after james. /quote]

I get full, I don't get high...I like to eat, not smoke...wrong dude...

Yes, HELL Yes they said "let this shooter go!" The shooter wanted 15mil! By the time he came around Reinsdorf was done with him. Why? JR felt he wasn't good enough to sweat...simple as that.

You don't think Hinrich compliments Lebron? Wade? Bosh? I think so.

 

[pinkizdead]

Re:In Honor of Fred - Hinrich GONEhttp://www.bulls

so you think that reinsdorf signed deng in order to get lebron?

you wonder why i'm asking you if you're high. The reason is, cause i'm letting you have an out. Otherwise, if you think signing deng was a move to get lebron, i'ma bit dumbfounded. More than anything my cynicism regarding humanity was far too little.

 

[houheffna]

Re:In Honor of Fred - Hinrich GONEhttp://www.bulls

I thought you were talking about Gordon/Hinrich, not Gordon/Deng.

They don't want to keep Deng. They wanted to keep Hinrich. Gordon dug his own grave, so he will most likely be stuck in the abyss of making money and accomplishing nothing team wise until he gets traded, in my opinion. But they wanted to trade Deng...

 

[pinkizdead]

Re:In Honor of Fred - Hinrich GONEhttp://www.bulls

they wanted to tade deng when the let gordon go?

Jerry sat down and personally conducted negotiations with deng.

Do you mean they wanted to trade him this year? or last year? cause i agree. turns out gordon, hinrich, and salmons were the better fit.