In season thread

[Diehardfan]

Olt is back up. Roach off the 40 man now. Have not heard a move on the major league roster.

Now I wonder how they will use Olt now? I would start him in LF. See what happens.

Unless they found a bat that's 6 or 7 inches wide for him.....I'd park his ass on the bench.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Doubt it...

Lester Arrieta Hammel Hendrick and new addition


He most likely will be traded in off season. ..

Ok, why in the world would they trade their only pitcher above A ball with TOR potential? This guy has four complete pitches that he throws. If it's for a young starter, sure I'd do that but otherwise that's nuts.

 

[chibears55]

Ok, why in the world would they trade their only pitcher above A ball with TOR potential? This guy has four complete pitches that he throws. If it's for a young starter, sure I'd do that but otherwise that's nuts.

Think we got our pitchers crossed...

I was talking about wood and you edwards...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Think we got our pitchers crossed...

I was talking about wood and you edwards...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

Gotcha. No harm no foul.

 

[CSF77]

Unless they found a bat that's 6 or 7 inches wide for him.....I'd park his ass on the bench.

:grin:

 

[CSF77]

my opinion with Edwards is they treat him like the Dodgers did with Martinez. MR. His stuff is good enough for it. Let him get accumated with the league. Then a year or so (same thing the sox did with Sale) get him ready for starting.

They need to see if he can pitch a whole year first.

Replacing a pen arm is easier than a starter.

 

[JZsportsfan]

The AL winning the All-Star Game is cute in all. Doesn't matter because in Chicago we win titles in 6

 

[beckdawg]

The AL winning the All-Star Game is cute in all. Doesn't matter because in Chicago we win titles in 6

Plus the cubs have a DH in waiting if Schwarber.

 

[beckdawg]

my opinion with Edwards is they treat him like the Dodgers did with Martinez. MR. His stuff is good enough for it. Let him get accumated with the league. Then a year or so (same thing the sox did with Sale) get him ready for starting.

They need to see if he can pitch a whole year first.

Replacing a pen arm is easier than a starter.

I don't really see what benefit you get out of Edwards this year in MR assuming you're talking about this year. Plus, to be honest they already have 2 guys to go multiple MR innings in wood and jackson. Assuming the time table for Edwards is around 40 man roster expansion I could see them using him as the 5th starter but on a 5 or so inning limit unless he's absolutely dealing. When roster's expand they will have the bigger bullpen to allow them that flexibility. Edwards innings are already super low because of the way they've used him. Obviously that could change if they deal for a starter but I'm not sure they will find a match. I just don't see him having much of a role in the bullpen as good as the bullpen has been. The cubs are 7th in reliever ERA and that's with them being iffy to start the year. They also have Soriano who's probably ready to come up.

Now if we're talking 2016 maybe but I still think you need to get rid of Jackson and/or Wood for that to happen. You're going to have Grimm, Ramirez, Strop and Rondon regardless. I believe they are all still in arb or under contract but i might be mistaken on Strop. If you assume they go with 13 pitchers 5 of which are starters that leaves you another 4 guys two of which likely would be lefties given the four I just listed are righties. Additionally, they might just go with the league norm of 12 pitchers instead losing another slot. So, there might only be another 3 after the 4 I listed. I also believe Motte got a 2 year deal. So from there you'd be talking about a long reliever and a lefty or possibly both being lefties and they keep wood in the LR role.

My guess is they would do one of two things depending on Spring Training. If he's lights out in ST, I think you go with him as your #5 starter but cap him at 150 innings like the nationals did with Strausburg and Zimmermann few years ago. The other option is to start him in AAA which allows them to fudge with his innings a bit.

 

[brett05]

The AL winning the All-Star Game is cute in all. Doesn't matter because in Chicago we win titles in 6

Unless you are the White Sox then you do it in 4.


:soxwin:

 

[Parade_Rain]

I don't really see what benefit you get out of Edwards this year in MR assuming you're talking about this year. Plus, to be honest they already have 2 guys to go multiple MR innings in wood and jackson. Assuming the time table for Edwards is around 40 man roster expansion I could see them using him as the 5th starter but on a 5 or so inning limit unless he's absolutely dealing. When roster's expand they will have the bigger bullpen to allow them that flexibility. Edwards innings are already super low because of the way they've used him. Obviously that could change if they deal for a starter but I'm not sure they will find a match. I just don't see him having much of a role in the bullpen as good as the bullpen has been. The cubs are 7th in reliever ERA and that's with them being iffy to start the year. They also have Soriano who's probably ready to come up.

Now if we're talking 2016 maybe but I still think you need to get rid of Jackson and/or Wood for that to happen. You're going to have Grimm, Ramirez, Strop and Rondon regardless. I believe they are all still in arb or under contract but i might be mistaken on Strop. If you assume they go with 13 pitchers 5 of which are starters that leaves you another 4 guys two of which likely would be lefties given the four I just listed are righties. Additionally, they might just go with the league norm of 12 pitchers instead losing another slot. So, there might only be another 3 after the 4 I listed. I also believe Motte got a 2 year deal. So from there you'd be talking about a long reliever and a lefty or possibly both being lefties and they keep wood in the LR role.

My guess is they would do one of two things depending on Spring Training. If he's lights out in ST, I think you go with him as your #5 starter but cap him at 150 innings like the nationals did with Strausburg and Zimmermann few years ago. The other option is to start him in AAA which allows them to fudge with his innings a bit.

Capping Strausburg cost them a WS.

 

[beckdawg]

Capping Strausburg cost them a WS.

Maybe but I'm unsure it was the wrong move. Perhaps what they should have done instead was pitch him in the minors to start the season and keep his IP lower or possibly start him as a reliever as CSf77 is suggesting with Edwards. I honestly don't recall how far they were up in the standings at the end. Ultimately though I tend to believe if you're making the argument that one player makes the difference that the argument is pretty flimsy with a minuscule amount of exceptions. For example, if you're giving me Trout then maybe I can see that costing a team but ultimately I believe baseball is far more a team game and that if you're not good enough to win it without him you're probably not worthy anyways.

He probably would have been about a 5 win pitcher that year. They won game one of the NLDS vs the Cards with Gonzo. Zimmermann got pounded game two. Jackson got pounded game 3. They won game 4 with Detwiler starting and ultimately their bullpen blew game 5. It's obviously impossible to say how it changes with Strasburg in but they had their chance and actually won with their 4th starter anyways.

 

[CSF77]

I don't really see what benefit you get out of Edwards this year in MR assuming you're talking about this year. Plus, to be honest they already have 2 guys to go multiple MR innings in wood and jackson. Assuming the time table for Edwards is around 40 man roster expansion I could see them using him as the 5th starter but on a 5 or so inning limit unless he's absolutely dealing. When roster's expand they will have the bigger bullpen to allow them that flexibility. Edwards innings are already super low because of the way they've used him. Obviously that could change if they deal for a starter but I'm not sure they will find a match. I just don't see him having much of a role in the bullpen as good as the bullpen has been. The cubs are 7th in reliever ERA and that's with them being iffy to start the year. They also have Soriano who's probably ready to come up.

Now if we're talking 2016 maybe but I still think you need to get rid of Jackson and/or Wood for that to happen. You're going to have Grimm, Ramirez, Strop and Rondon regardless. I believe they are all still in arb or under contract but i might be mistaken on Strop. If you assume they go with 13 pitchers 5 of which are starters that leaves you another 4 guys two of which likely would be lefties given the four I just listed are righties. Additionally, they might just go with the league norm of 12 pitchers instead losing another slot. So, there might only be another 3 after the 4 I listed. I also believe Motte got a 2 year deal. So from there you'd be talking about a long reliever and a lefty or possibly both being lefties and they keep wood in the LR role.

My guess is they would do one of two things depending on Spring Training. If he's lights out in ST, I think you go with him as your #5 starter but cap him at 150 innings like the nationals did with Strausburg and Zimmermann few years ago. The other option is to start him in AAA which allows them to fudge with his innings a bit.

I do not see them promoting him this year. I see him competing for a bull pen job in S/T. If he wins one then see if he can get a full season in.

Now Wood: I do not see him on the team next year at all. They are paying him too much to be a pen arm.

I would trade for a legit closer. Say Pap. there is a connect going. Cubs is his preferred landing spot. Say they trade out Wood and Vogelbach for him. Fair deal. Some cash deferred this year with Wood's deal sent out. Cubs absorb the rest on Pap. Phills get a long term 1B. If they want some one like Rondon instead (I would do it as Rondon is ok trade goods)

That would set the pen as Pap/Strop/Ramirez as your late inning mix. Then they would have Grimm and Edwards in MR. I would eat Jackson's 11 mil at that point. The rest would be LH arms. Not sure if they go another year with Russell. Other than that it would be Rosscup. So they could use another LH arm in the pen at that point. Something cheaper than Wood.

So in theory you keep Edwards in MR with Grimm to basically get used to pitching in the majors. After a year then see where he is at. They did this with Shark also. Got him in as a BP first then converted him. He turned out fine for it. Now if he was more of a durable pitcher that has soaked innings in the minors then this would be a non issue. But this is not the case with Carl. He has never pitched a full year.

 

[CSF77]

Capping Strausburg cost them a WS.

I would have limited his innings earlier season. But the flip to that is then they might not have made it in.

As a Cubs fan and seeing what happened to Prior first hand in 2003. I can not judge what Rizzo decided as a wrong move. We lost out on years for Prior for 1 shot that came up short.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I would have limited his innings earlier season. But the flip to that is then they might not have made it in.

As a Cubs fan and seeing what happened to Prior first hand in 2003. I can not judge what Rizzo decided as a wrong move. We lost out on years for Prior for 1 shot that came up short.

Prior was going to have arm issues regardless. He had a mechanical flaw hr couldnt ovecome. The only way he would have possibly been saved is making him a closer or set up man.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Prior was going to have arm issues regardless. He had a mechanical flaw hr couldnt ovecome. The only way he would have possibly been saved is making him a closer or set up man.

There was a lot of differing opinions on that mechanical flaw. At the time most scouts and experts said that his mechanics were spot on perfect but a few others saw something and Steve Stone was one of them. Of course I'll always believe there was some chemistry involved in his breakdown as well.

 

[beckdawg]

Now Wood: I do not see him on the team next year at all. They are paying him too much to be a pen arm. I would trade for a legit closer. Say Pap. there is a connect going.

In regards to Edwards in MR, I'm not that opposed to the idea of a Shark like break into the majors(think the cards did this with both Wacha and Martinez). I'm just saying with their current roster I don't see the room. Roster can obviously change though.

As for wood, he's not making that much. He's making $5.7 mil this year and will be arb 3 next. AFAIK arb never goes down but I doubt he's going to get any raise so for the sake of argument let's say he gets $5.7 again in arb. Motte is making $4.5 mil this year. Additionally, while Wood isn't ideal for the rotation today, you always want to have some wiggle room with 7-8 MLB caliber starters because injuries wreck you. If we assume they have Arrieta, Lester, Hendricks and Hammel as locks for the rotation you could basically toss Wood Pierce Johnson, Jokish, Beeler and Turner in there as competition for the #5 with some ending AAA. Some of those guys probably get knocked off the 40 man but the idea is there.

I'd also throw out the point that as a reliever Wood has a 2.59/3.04 ERA/FIP and happens to be a lefty. My view is you're talking Strop, Grimm, Rondon, and Ramirez for sure. You've got to have at least one lefty in there and many managers like 2. You'd also have the question of closer if Motte isn't back(I was wrong he only signed a 1 year deal apparently). Ultimately, I agree you could use the idea I just don't see it as an amazing fit. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here but I believe Shark(and Cashner) were used in 7th/8th inning roles when they were worked in this way rather. If you are maddon why are you pitching Edwards instead of Grimm, Strop, Rondon or Ramiez in the 7th/8th assuming they are available? Now of course there will be days he can pitch because others aren't available and maybe he gets some 4th-6th inning mop up duty too but realistically how many innings is he going to pitch? Seems unlikely he'd get to 70 doing that. Villanueva had that sort of role last year and pitched 77.2 but he also started 5 games which you have to figure is at least 25 of those innings. So maybe we're talking like 50 IP.

I guess to me I'd just rather seem him throw 100 IP in AAA and come up in July/August next year and work out of the bullpen rather than break camp with the cubs and throw less than 70 innings again out of the bullpen. At some point you have to build him up to throw more than 150 innings. In the case of Cashner and Shark, Cashner was 26 before he did it and the following season he had injuries and Shark did until he was 27 which arguably should start to be when you're going through your peak rather than just adapting to being a full time starter. Hell, if Edwards starts in AAA you can have him skip every third start or have him always pitching on 6/7 days and keep him fresh if you wanted to and potentially have him as a starter in July/August going forward. Seems like you have far more options that way.

 

[Diehardfan]

There was a lot of differing opinions on that mechanical flaw. At the time most scouts and experts said that his mechanics were spot on perfect but a few others saw something and Steve Stone was one of them. Of course I'll always believe there was some chemistry involved in his breakdown as well.

I do remember that. They were saying this kid is just so sound that his chances of injury were slim and none. Of course, he then proceeds to be constantly injured and doing more pitching throwing towels than baseballs. I always wondered how they could be so wrong about a prospect...and it wasn't just Cub scouts, it was everyone. Everyone but Stone who turned out to be the only one that was right.

 

[brett05]

There was a lot of differing opinions on that mechanical flaw. At the time most scouts and experts said that his mechanics were spot on perfect but a few others saw something and Steve Stone was one of them. Of course I'll always believe there was some chemistry involved in his breakdown as well.

100% agree. Once he lost it mentally the rest was almost assured to follow.

 

[beckdawg]

100% agree. Once he lost it mentally the rest was almost assured to follow.

I for one blame Moises Alou.... for no reason.... totally arbitrarily.