IST: Cubs @ A's

chibears55

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Contreras may have a few hits recently but they have all been of the bloop or infielder dribbler. If he wants to move up the line up he needs to start hitting the ball solidly
Point was..

I have more faith in Contreras doing something positive then those 3 and I would of put Contreras somewhere between the 3 to split them up..

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CSF77

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Not resign the engine that makes things go on offense?

With Schwarber back I doubt they will lose runs scored at all.

What it comes down to is $$$. They will have to open up pay roll to either resign Jake or hit the market. Fowler will get paid. They are log jammed right now. They could use Almora in big OF and Heyward in RF. Lefty on the mound Soler in LF. Righty Schwarber in LF.

I doubt things change much. Players will move around. But it comes down to $$$. Almora, Soler, Baez, Bryant and Schwarber combined will cost less that 1 year of Fowler.

Pitching wins championships. That is where the investment needs to go.
 

Shawon0Meter

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lol A's announcers talking about the Cubs "curse of the donkey" and 2003 wasn't Bartman's fault
 

CSF77

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Donkey's and goats oh my
 

SilenceS

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2003 wasnt Bartman's fault, but who cares anymore. Poor guy went through hell. He just wants it to never be talked about again.
 

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7876a96e222a1f19f0a04b8dae3b5c25.jpg


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beckdawg

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Arrieta's velocity is down a bit, many 92mph fastballs. When usually he's around 95 or 96.

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I didn't have the game on tv was just watching thru box score recap but this had me curious cuz that's usually a bad sign for pitchers. Brooks had him far higher than you did

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB...yyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=&league=mlb&pnf=&zlpo=

Also his average(max) was 94.7 (96.1). So, thankfully doesn't appear to be much to worry about. His sinker was 94.3 (96.1) though so maybe you were catching more of those.
 

Ari Bear

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I didn't have the game on tv was just watching thru box score recap but this had me curious cuz that's usually a bad sign for pitchers. Brooks had him far higher than you did

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB...yyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=&league=mlb&pnf=&zlpo=

Also his average(max) was 94.7 (96.1). So, thankfully doesn't appear to be much to worry about. His sinker was 94.3 (96.1) though so maybe you were catching more of those.
He had a series of fastballs at 92mph in the 3rd inning when I turned the game on, it appears he threw a little harder later on. But yeah that's usually not a good sign. I'm glad he won today, he hasn't won in over 5 starts. Good game for him.

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czman

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Snip for brevity

Like I said there is a reason why he is not worth what you are saying. Most teams will look at his historical defense, and it is bad, recognize that he is in maybe the easiest CF in baseball and is only average and deduce that if he goes to their team he will probably play bad defense because he won't be in one of the easiest CF in baseball to play for half his games. So his average defense hear for two seasons is not going to change most peoples belief that he would bad just about anywhere else.

His 250/350 away from Coors is good, but it makes him much like Shin-Soo Choo who is making 20 mil a season now and just about everyone thinks that contract is terrible now.

Right now 255/321 is the average for all MLB. So he is a player who tends to miss 15-20% of the season, plays below average to bad defense for most teams in CF and caries a 0.035 OBP higher than the MLB average. Being on the wrong side of 30 is not going to help him either. He is not worth 20 million and no team will give it to him. GMs look at more than WAR, and in his WAR was never over 2.3 until he came to the Cubs (FanGraghs WAR, I think that is the one you like).

For well over half the teams in the league he is a 2 WAR player (at best) because his defense goes back to garbage and he still is an average hitter with above average OBP who misses ~30 games.
 

beckdawg

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Like I said there is a reason why he is not worth what you are saying. Most teams will look at his historical defense, and it is bad, recognize that he is in maybe the easiest CF in baseball and is only average and deduce that if he goes to their team he will probably play bad defense because he won't be in one of the easiest CF in baseball to play for half his games. So his average defense hear for two seasons is not going to change most peoples belief that he would bad just about anywhere else.

His 250/350 away from Coors is good, but it makes him much like Shin-Soo Choo who is making 20 mil a season now and just about everyone thinks that contract is terrible now.

Right now 255/321 is the average for all MLB. So he is a player who tends to miss 15-20% of the season, plays below average to bad defense for most teams in CF and caries a 0.035 OBP higher than the MLB average. Being on the wrong side of 30 is not going to help him either. He is not worth 20 million and no team will give it to him. GMs look at more than WAR, and in his WAR was never over 2.3 until he came to the Cubs (FanGraghs WAR, I think that is the one you like).

For well over half the teams in the league he is a 2 WAR player (at best) because his defense goes back to garbage and he still is an average hitter with above average OBP who misses ~30 games.

I understand your argument. I just disagree. With regard to his defense, Colorado had him play shallow when he was coming up and it has hurt his metrics. That's one change the cubs made this year and why he's looked a lot better. I could link some articles that talk about it but basically the gist of it was balls hit over your head have a disproportionally bad outcome to balls hit in front of you. Fowler is by no means a slow guy but by playing so shallow more balls went over his head.

As for him being Choo, Choo would be a fine contract... if he actually could play CF. He couldn't play CF when he was young before that contract. His big year with the Reds he was -17.0 UZR/150 and -18 in DRS. The year prior to that in RF for the Indians he was -10 DRS and -15.8 UZR/150. Fowler hasn't really been that bad. He had 3 particularly bad years that were almost entirely based on his range. Some of that had to do with the previously mentioned shallow play and I'm guessing some also had to do with the numerous injuries he suffered. Either way, he had several years in Colorado which is a huge OF where he was just below average. He's not Willie Mays back there but he can play the position. Choo should have never been in CF.

Honestly, the only real argument I see against him at this point is the injury one. But frankly that's an argument you can make against anyone who's a FA. That's why I see him getting 3-4 years rather than 6-7 a la Ellsbury.

At the end of the day, he's been worth 6.5 fWAR the past 2 years with the cubs despite having a horrible start to 2015 and missing a month this year. So, barring another injury this year, that's probably 7 fWAR by the end of the year and maybe more. At 3.5 fWAR per season that makes him one of the 50 most valuable position players in baseball. Upton who was worth a similar 3.6 fWAR last year got 6 yrs/$132.75 mil. He's a little younger and has a bit more power but that's $22.125 mil per season. I mentioned Gordon's deal at $18 mil/season with similar production. That's roughly where I see his value. Whether or not teams pay him that is obviously another issue but I'm betting the O's wish they could have a do over on the deal they failed to sign him to. That was supposedly 3 year $35 mil in a super rich FA market. This coming year is fairly barren. If he doesn't get $18 mil/year I'd be surprised and if he's lower than that the cubs had better be in on him in that $15 mil range.
 

Diehardfan

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Cardinals having huge bullpen problems these days plus they have a losing record at home. Pen took another pounding tonight by Atlanta of all teams.

This is just heartbreaking news......

:lmao:
 

chibears55

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Cardinals having huge bullpen problems these days plus they have a losing record at home. Pen took another pounding tonight by Atlanta of all teams.

This is just heartbreaking news......

:lmao:
Yep, they've been losing to Reds and Braves this week
So sad.. Lol

10 1/2 games up
Magic number 43

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SilenceS

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Well, isnt the Cubs board so much better when we win.27 games over. Trade dem all. Also, most over rated team in history that cant come back and pile on runs. Ommy, hello!

[video=youtube;A8SrdxHDC58]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8SrdxHDC58[/video]
 

Spunky Porkstacker

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Ommy over in the Bears forum arguing Shakespeare keeping Urblock busy.
 

beckdawg

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Just a thought but a Schwarber/Bryant/Rizzo/Contreras heart of the order next year could be really scary with a great L/R/L/R mix.
 

FrankieLyrical

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I know you asked Chibear, bu I will respond because I think the average stuff is bullshit. He would need some time to adjust his routes, but he could be plus in center. He doesnt have the true speed, but neither does Fowler. The Cubs play in a small OF way more than they play in a big OF. Heyward would be just fine at Wrigley and his arm is still a cannon from center. He is fitted for RF more because he doesnt have blazing speed, but his instincts and route taking should make up for it. I have always thought him and Almora would platoon CF next year if Fowler does not come back.

The bolded I think is the more likely for next year.

I'm not saying AVG. as a bad way..
And I'm not into the metrics either

I just think he excells more in RF defensively and looks more comfortable there..

In CF he just looks a bit off and outside WF with Schwarber and Bryant, I just think it could bite them in ass for most part.

If they plan on doing more of a platoon with Almira or someone, then OK..
But if he going to be there regularly, I don't know





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Yeah, I get you now. But I think Almora will be up full time next year if Dex is gone, giving even more versatility to what Maddon can do. As great as a season this has been, I can't lie, I'm intrigued as to what we do in the off-season. There are so many possibilities
 

chibears55

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The bolded I think is the more likely for next year.



Yeah, I get you now. But I think Almora will be up full time next year if Dex is gone, giving even more versatility to what Maddon can do. As great as a season this has been, I can't lie, I'm intrigued as to what we do in the off-season. There are so many possibilities

Yea me too..

I think with all the extra bats on team and in system
They make a couple deals for arms..

I think they get one younger arm to replace Hammel and probably try and get a couple prospects that could be ready for 2018

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