IST: Cubs @ Cardinals

[Globetrotter]

See you next year!

You leaving?

 

[Omeletpants]

You leaving?

That would be the forum's dream

 

[TL1961]

Q trying to make people forget Brick for Broglio. ��

 

[fatbeard]

Q trying to make people forget Brick for Broglio. ��

He's been quite a disappointment. Who goes from the AL to the NL and has their ERA rise nearly a run?

 

[CSF77]

Interesting view on Q last year

http://sportsmockery.com/2017/08/whats-wrong-jose-quintana/

I believe much holds the same. With Q is comes down to command of his fastball. If he misses location then his sinker and curve are prone to damage. It seems like a league figuring that his fastball command is wack and they start picking mistakes.

 

[CSF77]

All said and done I’m not a huge fan of the results from the rotation this year. I’m not sure if it is a Hickey issue or what. Bosio May have personality issues but he was a dam good coach. He didn’t seem to cater to the vets. Hickey I’m not sure honestly. Looking at the surface it seems like staff regression.

 

[chibears55]

All said and done I’m not a huge fan of the results from the rotation this year. I’m not sure if it is a Hickey issue or what. Bosio May have personality issues but he was a dam good coach. He didn’t seem to cater to the vets. Hickey I’m not sure honestly. Looking at the surface it seems like staff regression.

So basically what ive been saying all along...lol

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[beckdawg]

Think it's a bit disingenuous to look at the starting rotation issue and ignore the fact you're basically playing the entire season without Darvish. I mean imagine the 2016 or 2017 teams without Arrieta. The rotation would have looked as bad. I have said this before but if you get a healthy Darvish back then i think a lot of the issues will fade. Lester has been pretty typical. Hendricks I think is fairly close to normal but he's had some spotty command issues for him. That's not uncommon as he had similar issues last year before going on the DL. If you get those 3 back and playing like they can it's going to look entirely different.

Q I don't really have answers for. He was one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball and it's frankly surprising to me how he's fallen off. Obviously there's always a chance for him to go back there but at this point I'm left scratching my head on him.

As for Chatwood, i mean sure how he's been bad is kind of surprising but we always knew he was an upside gamble. The thing is if he ever gets his career walk rate back I still think his contract is a pretty good deal because the fact he was even able to survive this long in a rotation with a 8.14 bb/9 is shocking. To put that number in context, Rick Ankiel got the yips and had a 9.38 bb/9 and despite having a k/9 rate over 10 still had a 7.13/8.09 ERA/FIP. Chatwood some what shockingly is still only at 4.98/5.57 or roughly 2/3 that.

 

[CSF77]

Think it's a bit disingenuous to look at the starting rotation issue and ignore the fact you're basically playing the entire season without Darvish. I mean imagine the 2016 or 2017 teams without Arrieta. The rotation would have looked as bad. I have said this before but if you get a healthy Darvish back then i think a lot of the issues will fade. Lester has been pretty typical. Hendricks I think is fairly close to normal but he's had some spotty command issues for him. That's not uncommon as he had similar issues last year before going on the DL. If you get those 3 back and playing like they can it's going to look entirely different.

Q I don't really have answers for. He was one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball and it's frankly surprising to me how he's fallen off. Obviously there's always a chance for him to go back there but at this point I'm left scratching my head on him.

As for Chatwood, i mean sure how he's been bad is kind of surprising but we always knew he was an upside gamble. The thing is if he ever gets his career walk rate back I still think his contract is a pretty good deal because the fact he was even able to survive this long in a rotation with a 8.14 bb/9 is shocking. To put that number in context, Rick Ankiel got the yips and had a 9.38 bb/9 and despite having a k/9 rate over 10 still had a 7.13/8.09 ERA/FIP. Chatwood some what shockingly is still only at 4.98/5.57 or roughly 2/3 that.

Darvish goes back pre trade. His fastball command is spotty. Teams just now hunt for mistakes now. I’m not sure why

 

[chibears55]

Think it's a bit disingenuous to look at the starting rotation issue and ignore the fact you're basically playing the entire season without Darvish. I mean imagine the 2016 or 2017 teams without Arrieta. The rotation would have looked as bad. I have said this before but if you get a healthy Darvish back then i think a lot of the issues will fade. Lester has been pretty typical. Hendricks I think is fairly close to normal but he's had some spotty command issues for him. That's not uncommon as he had similar issues last year before going on the DL. If you get those 3 back and playing like they can it's going to look entirely different.

Q I don't really have answers for. He was one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball and it's frankly surprising to me how he's fallen off. Obviously there's always a chance for him to go back there but at this point I'm left scratching my head on him.

As for Chatwood, i mean sure how he's been bad is kind of surprising but we always knew he was an upside gamble. The thing is if he ever gets his career walk rate back I still think his contract is a pretty good deal because the fact he was even able to survive this long in a rotation with a 8.14 bb/9 is shocking. To put that number in context, Rick Ankiel got the yips and had a 9.38 bb/9 and despite having a k/9 rate over 10 still had a 7.13/8.09 ERA/FIP. Chatwood some what shockingly is still only at 4.98/5.57 or roughly 2/3 that.

Darvish being in the rotation has zero effect on what theyve gotten out of Quintana and Hendricks overall to date..
Outside of Chatwood garbage, those two have been disappointing..

Guess yes, if Darvish had been pitching all year they could of moved Chatwood out earlier for Montgomery
But
Other then that Quintana and Hendricks are on their own for their dismal season


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[beckdawg]

Darvish being in the rotation has zero effect on what theyve gotten out of Quintana and Hendricks overall to date..
Outside of Chatwood garbage, those two have been disappointing..

Guess yes, if Darvish had been pitching all year they could of moved Chatwood out earlier for Montgomery
But
Other then that Quintana and Hendricks are on their own for their dismal season


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I think you're underestimating the impact having an ace matters. Think about it like this, not having an ace in the line up puts more pressure on others. That then becomes a vicious cycle if say Hendricks throws a bad game because the next guy may go out there trying to do too much to help the bullpen out....etc. And when you add in the fact that obviously Chatwood hasn't worked it's plausible that as much as anything has been the issue.

Also I think you're being a bit hard on Hendricks. He's not been amazing but he's not been terrible either. The difference between a 3.52 ERA and his current 4.05 ERA is 10 runs over his 21 starts. More over, he's not been terrible in games. He's only had 4 starts where he gave up more than 4 runs. Point here being he's obviously not as sharp as he can be but it's not like he's going out there often and giving up 6 in the first inning a la Q yesterday. He's really just had a bad june. His April ERA was 3.10. His May ERA was 3.26. His June ERA was 7.03 and his July ERA is 3.54.

 

[NCChiFan]

All I care to say on this subject. I f'n hate losing to the Cardinals.

 

[chibears55]

I think you're underestimating the impact having an ace matters. Think about it like this, not having an ace in the line up puts more pressure on others. That then becomes a vicious cycle if say Hendricks throws a bad game because the next guy may go out there trying to do too much to help the bullpen out....etc. And when you add in the fact that obviously Chatwood hasn't worked it's plausible that as much as anything has been the issue.

Also I think you're being a bit hard on Hendricks. He's not been amazing but he's not been terrible either. The difference between a 3.52 ERA and his current 4.05 ERA is 10 runs over his 21 starts. More over, he's not been terrible in games. He's only had 4 starts where he gave up more than 4 runs. Point here being he's obviously not as sharp as he can be but it's not like he's going out there often and giving up 6 in the first inning a la Q yesterday. He's really just had a bad june. His April ERA was 3.10. His May ERA was 3.26. His June ERA was 7.03 and his July ERA is 3.54.

As far as Hendricks is concerned..
It not the amount of runs given up that been disappointing ..
It the lack of innings that been disappointing..
He has gone 6+ in just 9 of 21 starts

As far as not having that "Ace" goes, that when guys like Quintana and Hendricks who are veterans and has had good seasons, need to step up and be that guy to help ease the loss of the Ace..
Not saying they need to be top notch every start but a whole lot better then they've been

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[CSF77]

As far as Hendricks is concerned..
It not the amount of runs given up that been disappointing ..
It the lack of innings that been disappointing..
He has gone 6+ in just 9 of 21 starts

As far as not having that "Ace" goes, that when guys like Quintana and Hendricks who are veterans and has had good seasons, need to step up and be that guy to help ease the loss of the Ace..
Not saying they need to be top notch every start but a whole lot better then they've been

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More of a mind set. Some guys don’t do pressure

 

[beckdawg]

As far as Hendricks is concerned..
It not the amount of runs given up that been disappointing ..
It the lack of innings that been disappointing..
He has gone 6+ in just 9 of 21 starts

As far as not having that "Ace" goes, that when guys like Quintana and Hendricks who are veterans and has had good seasons, need to step up and be that guy to help ease the loss of the Ace..
Not saying they need to be top notch every start but a whole lot better then they've been

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He's thrown 120 innings in 21 starts. That's an average of 5.71 innings per start. I don't really see the concern. Lester in 21 starts has thrown 120.2 innings. If you remove the 5 starts he had in June where clearly he lost his mechanics, that goes up to 5.98 innings per start.

 

[chibears55]

More of a mind set. Some guys don’t do pressure

Weve seen Hendricks pitch under pressure in big games, so i dont buy that excuse for him..

And

If that the case for these 2 veteran SP that supposed to be TOR types, then they need to go

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[CSF77]

Weve seen Hendricks pitch under pressure in big games, so i dont buy that excuse for him..

And

If that the case for these 2 veteran SP that supposed to be TOR types, then they need to go

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I think they are MOR

 

[chibears55]

He's thrown 120 innings in 21 starts. That's an average of 5.71 innings per start. I don't really see the concern. Lester in 21 starts has thrown 120.2 innings. If you remove the 5 starts he had in June where clearly he lost his mechanics, that goes up to 5.98 innings per start.

You dont see a problem with a SP who supposed to be a guy they counted on, pitching 5 innings or less in 12 of his 21 starts?

Hendricks has gone pass the 5th inning 3 times in his last 11 starts..
That not good
That 5th starter territory



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[chibears55]

I think they are MOR

Lol...
We all have our own thoughts..

I see the no.1 guy as the Ace of staff
No. 2 and 3 to me are TOR types
No. 4 and 5 are bottoms

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[beckdawg]

You dont see a problem with a SP who supposed to be a guy they counted on, pitching 5 innings or less in 12 of his 21 starts?

Hendricks has gone pass the 5th inning 3 times in his last 11 starts..
That not good
That 5th starter territory



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I think you have unrealistic expectations for modern MLB thinking. Sale is the best pitcher in baseball and he's averaging like 6.1 innings which is marginally better than hendricks. Modern managers pull starters early. It's just the way the game is. Hendricks isn't the problem with the bullpen. The problem with the bullpen is you're moving Monty into a starter role because Darvish is hurt and Chatwood is terrible. If you want to take it a bit farther Q isn't helping matters either but Hendricks isn't the problem.