IST: Cubs @ Cards

[Omeletpants]

The entire reason you use non-subjective measures is it is entirely possible for a good defender to make the difficult play look routine. For example, take the catch he had in Hendricks' last start where he went into the stands. The average MLB RF doesn't make that play. And sure that's not a huge play where the cubs lose multiple runs but an out is an out. He routinely makes plays like that which add outs. Those outs are fewer pitches for a pitcher.

In other words, it's not always about the spectacular catch. Making every routine play is a big deal. Making most difficult but not spectacular plays is a big deal.

Yes, just like a bad player can make easy catches look hard. But overall he hasnt really been challenged in the field this year and every game I'm hoping to see those flashes of defensive brilliance. Not his fault that he hasnt had those chance

 

[Omeletpants]

Bullshit. I don't single out individual ball players....just you, sweetpants.

So, please don't force me to make you look like a fool...again. It's just so easy, it gets boring.

You are a liar because you have criticized certain players and this is not the first time I have reminded you of it

 

[TL1961]

I call bullshit on Heyward. I have watched every Cubs game this year and have only seen i great diving play and 1 terrific throw to home plate. Outside of that I have seen nothing extra ordinary from this guy on defense.

To offset his slight impact on defense, Heyward is one of the top rally killers in MLB. When the chips are down expect a 4-3 ground out or double play. Dont know if they keep these stats but doubt any player has more ground outs to second than him. And for his size and strength it seems like it takes all of it just to get the ball 90 feet. He is the smallest big man in MLB.

Is this year an aberration? According to some MLB scouts they believe he has the worst swing in the league. He stubbornly continues to try to pull every pitch while standing a mile from the plate which only leads to more weak ass grounders. Does he learn from this? Nope, he just continues doing it cause he is Jason Fucking Heyward, superstar.

I'm betting that Theo would rescind this horrible signing if he could. Overall we are better with Scyzcr or Zoberist in RF that this clown

If you have truly watchedcevery game, and have seen ONE great throw to the plate, you make a LOT of trips to the bathroom while the opponent is batting!

I call bullshit.

 

[Diehardfan]

This is exactly why you are the worst poster on this forum. You are a sycophant that panders for the approval of others to support your position. This is what teenagers and immature minds do

LOL...this is classic.

Calling someone the worst poster on this forum....the guy that called the leading MVP candidate "Loopy swing" and followed that up with this gem regarding a 100+ win team. "Cubs have morphed into one of the worst teams in baseball. Not a chance in hell they would win a single playoff game. Forum members and ESPN reporters claiming this is one of the best teams in history are fucking morons."

Then he hits his 10 cent dictionary for a word that he doesn't even use properly in the sentence.

The very man that insults people with various forms of profanity and foul language....calls someone else immature.

Like I keep saying....you make it just too easy.

 

[fatbeard]

This is exactly why you are the worst poster on this forum. You are a sycophant that panders for the approval of others to support your position. This is what teenagers and immature minds do

Funny, when I think of "worst poster on the forum," I think of things like: "Cubs are now the worst team in baseball."

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/...Cubs-Pirates?p=2521337&viewfull=1#post2521337

 

[Omeletpants]

Funny, when I think of "worst poster on the forum," I think of things like: "Cubs are now the worst team in baseball."

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/...Cubs-Pirates?p=2521337&viewfull=1#post2521337

When I wrote that they were playing like the worst team in baseball. So, when you play like the worst team you are the worst team. Doesn't mean things can change. Learn the meaning of words.

 

[beckdawg]

Also for what it's worth, inside edge fielding metrics track the difficult of plays

Heyward has had 34 "impossible" plays of which he's made 0%. Impossible plays are defined as having 0% of making. He's had 19 "remote" plays of which he's converted 5.3%. Remote are classified as 1-10% chance. He's had 11 unlikely(classified as 10-40% chance) of which he's converted 63.6%. He's had 3 "even" plays(40-60%) which he's converted 66.7%. He's had 10 "likely" plays(60-90%) which he's converted 100% of. And lastly, he's had 227 "routine" plays which he's converted 99.6% of. If we look at that in a bigger spectrum, he's only failed to convert on 6 plays out of 251 labeled unlikely, even, routine and likely.

That's why he's arguably the best defender in RF over the course of the past few years.

 

[Omeletpants]

He has also had the least amount of assists in his career. Not his fault, just a function of plays that came his way and my argument is that another RF could have offered similar defense with better offense and less choking at bat

 

[chibears55]

Also for what it's worth, inside edge fielding metrics track the difficult of plays

Heyward has had 34 "impossible" plays of which he's made 0%. Impossible plays are defined as having 0% of making. He's had 19 "remote" plays of which he's converted 5.3%. Remote are classified as 1-10% chance. He's had 11 unlikely(classified as 10-40% chance) of which he's converted 63.6%. He's had 3 "even" plays(40-60%) which he's converted 66.7%. He's had 10 "likely" plays(60-90%) which he's converted 100% of. And lastly, he's had 227 "routine" plays which he's converted 99.6% of. If we look at that in a bigger spectrum, he's only failed to convert on 6 plays out of 251 labeled unlikely, even, routine and likely.

That's why he's arguably the best defender in RF over the course of the past few years.

I dont have any problems with Heyward defense
Its his bat that been questionable all year..

Here a comparison of Heyward vs Cubs 5 SP

Heyward
487 AB .226 AVG 6 HR 42 RBI

5 Pitchers
298 AB .154 AVG 2 HR 23 AB

ok he having a down year Avg wise but damn
6 ft 5 240 LB RFer
Only 4 HR and 20 RBI more then the SP with 200 more AB that bad..

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Yes, heyward is having a bad year but I could care less about BA, it's his .611 OPS that sucks.

 

[Diehardfan]

I dont have any problems with Heyward defense
Its his bat that been questionable all year..

Here a comparison of Heyward vs Cubs 5 SP

Heyward
487 AB .226 AVG 6 HR 42 RBI

5 Pitchers
298 AB .154 AVG 2 HR 23 AB

ok he having a down year Avg wise but damn
6 ft 5 240 LB RFer
Only 4 HR and 20 RBI more then the SP with 200 more AB that bad..

Yeah, its been a rough year for him. But it's happened before when a player gets a big contract...trying to do more than he is capable of comes to mind. Maybe he thought he needed to go deep more than he has in the past, that would explain his trying to pull everything. Someone like him who puts so much into what he does....it's gotta be tearing him up inside. It's to his credit that he hasn't taken his bad AB's out to right field with him.

 

[beckdawg]

He has also had the least amount of assists in his career. Not his fault, just a function of plays that came his way and my argument is that another RF could have offered similar defense with better offense and less choking at bat

Don't really see what assists have to do with matters. They are entirely dependent on men being on base of which the cubs are at a near historic pace for. But, saying there's RF who can offer similar defense is just flatly wrong. The only comparable OF to him are almost entirely CF's and there's not even enough quality CF to cover all 30 MLB teams. And that's not just metrics saying that. Scouts will say the same. At the end of the day, Heyward's defense is at a point where "routine" for him is basically 50/50 for most defenders and 50/50 for him is very difficult plays.

Now as to whether or not you could get more value out of a better hitter with slightly worse defense... I mean this year sure you probably could but that's because he's hitting horribly. But the cubs obviously value defense. For example, Baez is hitting .271/.308/.426 to Heyward's .226/.299/.312. You'll get no argument from me that Baez has been the more useful hitter but the point I'm getting at here is it's not exactly like Baez has been an amazing hitter this year. He's a ton of value because he's been great defensively and slightly below league average as a hitter(93 wRC+). Heyward has been great defensively but significantly worse(66 wRC+). But on his career he's 111 wRC+ or around 11% better than your average MLB player.

Regardless, it's largely pointless to have this debate. You have to assume that 2016 Heyward is the hitter he will be going forward which is rather absurd considering his wRC+ is nearly half what his career averages are. No one falls off a cliff that hard. Even like Andruw Jones only fell from 124 wRC+ to 86. All these supposed flaws in Heyward's swing have always been there. It's not like he's suddenly got the yips. It's far more likely that he tinkered with his swing to get more power(cubs talked about him working with Mallee), got that early season wrist injury, and all of that combined to throw his swing out of wack even worse than it was before.

And the thing is it's extremely hard to make in season changes to a swing. Rizzo hit .233/.323/.419 in 2013 and many were down on him. The following year he hit .286/.386/.527. Bryant is arguably one of the 5 best hitters in baseball. It took an offseason for him to fix his bat plane enough to lower his k rate.

 

[CSF77]

Guess you have to find something to ***** about on a 93 win team......

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Guess you have to find something to ***** about on a 93 win team......

It hurts my head. I've taken the whole season in and enjoyed the hell out of it. Life is too damned short.

 

[Omeletpants]

In virtually every walk of life, when you don't perform you get fired. Baseball is different. When a player doesnt perform he still collects his $20M and people rush to defend him. This guy has done shit for this team and god forbid the WS is on the line when he bats. The sad part is that we are stuck with this load for many years as he would be a fool to opt out as he has very diminished value. No one would dare trade for this guy, even though I'm betting Theo would dump his ass in a second. It would be a different thing if he just put his ego on the shelf and sent the ball to left field but he is too much of a hero for that. People can claim this year is an aberration but every player in history goes to shit at some point. We may be witnessing that with 4-3.

Too bad Heyward is choking on the biggest stage of his career. Hopefully, Maddon has the balls to bench this slug and bring him in the 7th inning for defense. The team is more important than a fail player that won't just go with the pitch like any good high school player would do

 

[fatbeard]

When I wrote that they were playing like the worst team in baseball.

Playing like the worst team in baseball and being the worst team in baseball are two incredibly different things. One is a rhetorical device, the other is not. This is, unsurprisingly, news to you.

So, when you play like the worst team you are the worst team.

60% of the time it works every time.

Learn the meaning of words.

Oh, the irony.

 

[anotheridiot]

Right now Joe has two options. He can sit Heyward for two weeks like he sat him for the dodger series, or he can continue to put him out there thinking something is going to knock him out of the slump. Joe is showing us the will continue to put him out there. Heyward has not quieted down his upper body yet, so I dont see it happening any time soon, we will see if the offseason goes anywhere. Just pretty sure if it was gonna happen Mailee would have gotten it to happen by now.

 

[CSF77]

In virtually every walk of life, when you don't perform you get fired. Baseball is different. When a player doesnt perform he still collects his $20M and people rush to defend him. This guy has done shit for this team and god forbid the WS is on the line when he bats. The sad part is that we are stuck with this load for many years as he would be a fool to opt out as he has very diminished value. No one would dare trade for this guy, even though I'm betting Theo would dump his ass in a second. It would be a different thing if he just put his ego on the shelf and sent the ball to left field but he is too much of a hero for that. People can claim this year is an aberration but every player in history goes to shit at some point. We may be witnessing that with 4-3.

Too bad Heyward is choking on the biggest stage of his career. Hopefully, Maddon has the balls to bench this slug and bring him in the 7th inning for defense. The team is more important than a fail player that won't just go with the pitch like any good high school player would do

Union dude

 

[CSF77]

Here is my take:

Heyward will play every game unless it is Kershaw or Bumgardner pitching. His D covers the loss.

On those games they can push Zobrist out to RF and plug Baez at 2B.

When there is a tough righty like Scherzer Soler sits with Bryant in LF.

Against neutral pitchers or middle of the rotation you expect Heyward starting. Soler depends on how hot he is. If he is crushing it you play him regardless.

OPS wise Soler has been crushing it in the 2nd half. His D has been middle of the road.

These 2 are not killing the team at all. What ever O they bring is just added to the production of the core.