IST: Cubs vs. Marlins

[Diehardfan]

10 games up in the loss column

 

[anotheridiot]

The running game is not nearly the factor on today's game as framing is. Pure and simple.

Contreras will improve, and Ross and Montero can help him do that. But he's not close to Montero right now.

I dont see it. Contrares frames to the corner. Ross frames to the corner. Montero frames to the middle of the plate. Its just too far to move the glove. We were never getting a defensive specialist with Montero, he was being paid for his offense period.

 

[CSF77]

I dont see it. Contrares frames to the corner. Ross frames to the corner. Montero frames to the middle of the plate. Its just too far to move the glove. We were never getting a defensive specialist with Montero, he was being paid for his offense period.

Really? When we got him he was the #1 ranked framer in baseball. Ross was also top 5.

Now I believe the framing issue is honestly not the issue here. It has to do with the pitcher catcher relationship. Even on Cubs.com they went into how Contreras is syncing up more. He is on the same page with Hendricks. He catches Arrieta's side sessions. Lester has said that he will have to work with Contreras.

That is why I said this is Joe catering. The pitchers are fine with it but it don't matter. Joe is matching up Ross and Lester and Montero and Arrieta regardless. So the whole framing thing is really not a thing. It is about Joe wanting to match up personal catchers. Right now even Lackey is getting Montero more.

I believe if Montero is hitting he will get the lion-share of the catching time. And I mean passable hitting. Not elite hitting. But right now Contreras and Hendrick's are clicking. You can expect those 2 matching up. Lackey most likely will stick with Montero. Hammel who knows. If he gets wins under Contreras you stick with it.

LF is still open so there is no rush. Soler is not in a situation where they are forced to promote him. Not enough service time for that. So he has to win a job. He is in the same boat as La Stella. If a need is there and their play justifies it.

In context:
post ASG:

Contreras: .224/.328/.276
Montero: .161/.333/.226
Ross: .200/.250/.500

There is not this glaring difference going on here.

Even looking at LF:
Coghlan: .222/.417/.222 He is not far off from Contreras. At all.

Saddly:
La Stella: .500/.632/.571 Did not deserve a demote.
Szczur: .435/.500/.522 Forgotten

We are making a big deal about little things while real producers are mired on the bench or demoted for lesser production.

 

[TL1961]

I dont see it. Contrares frames to the corner. Ross frames to the corner. Montero frames to the middle of the plate. Its just too far to move the glove. We were never getting a defensive specialist with Montero, he was being paid for his offense period.

Well I don't know any way to say it other than to say you are 100% wrong.

We signed Lester and traded for Montero in the same offseason. There was more than one article published showing that the War that came from Montero's framing meant we could count on almost as much impact from Montero as from Lester. And the reason was his framing.

So, how did it play out? Our pitching was much improved and our record was much improved.

All due to Montero? No, of course not. Lester being added to the rotation had a huge impact. And Arrieta's brilliance had more to do with him than just the catcher, right? Well....his turnaround came with Montero. That much we know.

I am not suggesting Montero is HOF material, for heaven's sake. Just saying fans grossly underestimate his impact.

 

[Boobaby1]

Well I don't know any way to say it other than to say you are 100% wrong.

We signed Lester and traded for Montero in the same offseason. There was more than one article published showing that the War that came from Montero's framing meant we could count on almost as much impact from Montero as from Lester. And the reason was his framing.

So, how did it play out? Our pitching was much improved and our record was much improved.

All due to Montero? No, of course not. Lester being added to the rotation had a huge impact. And Arrieta's brilliance had more to do with him than just the catcher, right? Well....his turnaround came with Montero. That much we know.

I am not suggesting Montero is HOF material, for heaven's sake. Just saying fans grossly underestimate his impact.

Also as of a note, I would much rather have three catchers on the team versus two. This gives Maddon much more flexibility.

I essence, you could have Montero start as a catcher, and then bring Contreras in from left field to catch, and a bench player move to LF for defensive purposes if they feel. That is just one scenario of many.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Also as of a note, I would much rather have three catchers on the team versus two. This gives Maddon much more flexibility.

I essence, you could have Montero start as a catcher, and then bring Contreras in from left field to catch, and a bench player move to LF for defensive purposes if they feel. That is just one scenario of many.

Or he could put Travis Wood in LF and bring him in to pitch!

 

[anotheridiot]

Well I don't know any way to say it other than to say you are 100% wrong.

We signed Lester and traded for Montero in the same offseason. There was more than one article published showing that the War that came from Montero's framing meant we could count on almost as much impact from Montero as from Lester. And the reason was his framing.

So, how did it play out? Our pitching was much improved and our record was much improved.

All due to Montero? No, of course not. Lester being added to the rotation had a huge impact. And Arrieta's brilliance had more to do with him than just the catcher, right? Well....his turnaround came with Montero. That much we know.

I am not suggesting Montero is HOF material, for heaven's sake. Just saying fans grossly underestimate his impact.

I just ask you pay attention to his framing during the games, you will see him cheating way too far this year. To me the umps see it moving too much and dont give him the pitches anymore.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I just ask you pay attention to his framing during the games, you will see him cheating way too far this year. To me the umps see it moving too much and dont give him the pitches anymore.

http://www.statcorner.com/CatcherReport.php

Montero is 3rd, Ross 8th and Contreras 24th in RAA which is as good a measure of framing as any.

 

[TL1961]

I just ask you pay attention to his framing during the games, you will see him cheating way too far this year. To me the umps see it moving too much and dont give him the pitches anymore.

I will do that. I have seen catchers pull balls from the dirt to the middle of the zone, and feel it is ridiculous.

The whole notion that one catcher has more value than another based solely on tricking an ump is so absurd.

As many have asked before, why do we need a human behind the plate when they are inconsistent and easily tricked?

 

[fatbeard]

I will do that. I have seen catchers pull balls from the dirt to the middle of the zone, and feel it is ridiculous.

The whole notion that one catcher has more value than another based solely on tricking an ump is so absurd.

As many have asked before, why do we need a human behind the plate when they are inconsistent and easily tricked?

Well, you need a human behind the plate for all sorts of reasons (balks, plays at the plate, foul balls, catcher interference, etc.), but I agree calling balls and strikes is not one of them. I'm all for ditching the subjective strike zone in favor of an objective one. The miss rate of even the best, most consistent umps is just too high.

 

[anotheridiot]

I will do that. I have seen catchers pull balls from the dirt to the middle of the zone, and feel it is ridiculous.

The whole notion that one catcher has more value than another based solely on tricking an ump is so absurd.

As many have asked before, why do we need a human behind the plate when they are inconsistent and easily tricked?

To me, if its that noticeable, the ump gives most catchers a FU. I have also seen it, and I doubt those catchers are considered good pitch framers. Molina is the only one that gets calls when the ball is 6" outside, but he just brings it to the corner. I thought Schwarber was good, he just gets to the corner, Contrares looks like he attempts to keep the glove in the zone, but you just should not try moving the glove 8 inches to a foot. The frame jobs are basically the width of the ball to the corner of the plate.

 

[Omeletpants]

I was framing pitches in the 60s in Little League

 

[Parade_Rain]

I was framing pitches in the 60s in Little League

I bet you were the kid who caught the ball a foot off the plate and brought it back across to the middle and pissing off the umpire.

 

[Omeletpants]

I bet you were the kid who caught the ball a foot off the plate and brought it back across to the middle and pissing off the umpire.

Nope, only framed pitches marginally off the plate and usually got the call. The first person I ever saw doing it. That makes me the pioneer in pitch framing

 

[SilenceS]

Nope, only framed pitches marginally off the plate and usually got the call. The first person I ever saw doing it. That makes me the pioneer in pitch framing

STFU, shit for brains

 

[Omeletpants]

STFU, shit for brains

They said the same thing to Louis Pasteur when he was out in the field pasturing milk and making our fucking kids safe. Amateur

 

[Parade_Rain]

They said the same thing to Louis Pasteur when he was out in the field pasturing milk and making our fucking kids safe. Amateur

Was that "pasteurizing" milk? I'm not sure what "pasturing" milk means.

 

[chibears55]

Best way to frame a pitch is by way you position glove when catching a ball off the plate..
Glove position and minimal movement is best way to frame

Problem with umps today is, most seem to have their imaginary box and don't follow ball into the glove

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

 

[Omeletpants]

Was that "pasteurizing" milk? I'm not sure what "pasturing" milk means.

Changed your spelling mistake....lololololo moron

He tries to troll me about spelling while making his own spelling mistakes Hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[czman]

I know MLB network has talked about pitch framing. They used some metrics of strikes called that should have been balls. I am sure pitcher rep has something to do with it. Montero has been in the top for years, and he has not had elite pitchers to work with. I don't think people can eye-ball good framing. There are just to many pitches and too many games. I will take the data from MLB network and the statisticians over just about anyone.

Montero is one of the best catchers in the league at getting extra strikes. He also caries a high OBP. he is overpaid, but they are probably a better team with him behind the plate. Especially when you consider that Contreras is hitting ~235 since over the last month and change. Contreras may be the future, but Montero is probably the best option for this playoff run.