IST: Cubs vs. Mets

[Omeletpants]

I understand. I have seen it, too. I agree there are many who go overboard optimistic / unrealistic.

But then again, I don't want to do the "worried Cub fan" thing and suffer all year while the team is winning.

Yes, good point about enjoying the journey. 1969 kinda screwed me up as a fan. I had so much invested in that team that it crushed me when they choked. 84 wasnt helpful either. So I tend to get hypercritical and I'm hypersensitive to newbie bandwagon fans with their uber projections

 

[Omeletpants]

Nah, you just bring old thoughts from the past regime, which has nothing to do with the Cubs new regime. You need to wash your thoughts ... and your 100 year underwear.

There is something to be said about your point. I am from an old generation that relied on what they saw and crude, basic metrics like W/L and BA. I am amazed by the metrics you guys throw around. While you can go crazy with the stats I'm still trying to figure out what's real and meaningful. But there are still things you watch that make an impression whether is 1925 or 2025. Those "truths" don't change

 

[SilenceS]

There is something to be said about your point. I am from an old generation that relied on what they saw and crude, basic metrics like W/L and BA. I am amazed by the metrics you guys throw around. While you can go crazy with the stats I'm still trying to figure out what's real and meaningful. But there are still things you watch that make an impression whether is 1925 or 2025. Those "truths" don't change

You, my friend, are an onion. I enjoy every layer

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Tonight was another giant victory. First the final Pirates game, then two of three against the Rangers, and now this.

I'm just so impressed to see us fight back after a pro longed free fall.

The leaps Baez has taken this year is amazing. He's really had a great year. I think his BA is higher than last years OBP.

I hate the Mets so much - any win over them is joyful.


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[TC in Mississippi]

Yes, good point about enjoying the journey. 1969 kinda screwed me up as a fan. I had so much invested in that team that it crushed me when they choked. 84 wasnt helpful either. So I tend to get hypercritical and I'm hypersensitive to newbie bandwagon fans with their uber projections

I was 8 in 1969 and that didn't do my noggin any favors either. In 1984 I went to 44 games and listened to the final wimper on the radio, in the car, on the way back to finish my last semester of college. That added on to the angst. After that I decided I was going to know this damned game so I'd never chase fools gold again. At that point the Cubs organization had been neglected for two decades and was a shambles. Dallas Green thought he and Goldy Goldsberry had a mandate to fix it but when the going got tough the bosses canned them. Without a strong organization behind it this team was unlikely to be a real contender and the playoffs weren't quite the random events they are now so the playoff dalliances didn't mean much until 2003. That was a solidly built team but it wasn't deep and the "I've got a giant chip on my shoulder" attitude of the team was evident from the beginning. Unlike some I had no illusions about 2004. The Piniella teams were not only not deep enough, they weren't good enough past some surface sheen, and with some bad decisions that was that.

Then came this bunch and broke it down in a way that had been needed for 50 years. The rebuild was thorough, orderly and well planned. Planning is no guarantee of success but it is neccesary for it. This team is talented, exciting, young and flawed as young teams often are. Veterans help the balance but don't change the fact that young players make mistakes as they grow. Objectively though this is probably the most talented team in the game. That never made them the 1927 Yankees and that talk was as silly as your doom and gloom of the last couple of weeks. It means that there is a baseline talent here with room to develop and be added on to as needed. I expect this team to make the playoffs and there isn't anything in the statistics and history of winning teams that tells me it won't. After that I'll live and die with every game like some here, for now though I'm going to enjoy the ride and understand that watching this level of baseball is a gift not to be taken lightly, not because it's fleeting but because it took hard work to build this team and its not all that common for owners' patience to allow that kind of work to come to fruition. Enjoy it.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Yes, good point about enjoying the journey. 1969 kinda screwed me up as a fan. I had so much invested in that team that it crushed me when they choked. 84 wasnt helpful either. So I tend to get hypercritical and I'm not only here in the Cubs forum to rain down negativity I prowl the Bears bd as well to constantly spew negativity./QUOTE]

Fify

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Today is huge. Arrieta really has a lot to prove tonight and while he doesn't have to be the guy he was from July 2015 through April 2016 he does need to show he's still the ace. Most of what was happening was lack of command of the fastball but I was concerned the last few starts when he wasn't commanding the slider either. He looked tired but with the extra rest I'm hoping he's ready for the second half.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Today is huge. Arrieta really has a lot to prove tonight and while he doesn't have to be the guy he was from July 2015 through April 2016 he does need to show he's still the ace. Most of what was happening was lack of command of the fastball but I was concerned the last few starts when he wasn't commanding the slider either. He looked tired but with the extra rest I'm hoping he's ready for the second half.

Yeah, this is the biggest game of the season to date for Arrieta. He NEEDS to pitch well. He's had a lot of time off to rest and now it's time to pitch like an Ace. If we're going anywhere this post season, Arrieta has to be Arrieta.

I don't know what the heck happened to his slider the past month but I want to see the full arsenal tonight.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Yes, good point about enjoying the journey. 1969 kinda screwed me up as a fan. I had so much invested in that team that it crushed me when they choked. 84 wasnt helpful either. So I tend to get hypercritical and I'm hypersensitive to newbie bandwagon fans with their uber projections

Yeah, I'll never forgot Game 7 of the 1945 World Series between the Cubs and Tigers. I was a young lad -- only 12 at the time. Paul Richards went HAM for the Tigers - driving in 4 runs. It's a shame because we were up 3-2 in that series and the Tigers came back to beat us.

 

[SilenceS]

Yeah, I'll never forgot Game 7 of the 1945 World Series between the Cubs and Tigers. I was a young lad -- only 12 at the time. Paul Richards went HAM for the Tigers - driving in 4 runs. It's a shame because we were up 3-2 in that series and the Tigers came back to beat us.

 

[Washington]

Watching the Cubs is great fun for me. But considering I'm older than most I have seen more unfounded homerism. So, I have adopted a realist position. However, we have many that are more new to this that piss themselves with every run scored. I prefer to take a more balanced approach. But keep taking shots at me, I'm kinda bulletprooof

I understand. I have seen it, too. I agree there are many who go overboard optimistic / unrealistic.

But then again, I don't want to do the "worried Cub fan" thing and suffer all year while the team is winning.

Yes, good point about enjoying the journey. 1969 kinda screwed me up as a fan. I had so much invested in that team that it crushed me when they choked. 84 wasnt helpful either. So I tend to get hypercritical and I'm hypersensitive to newbie bandwagon fans with their uber projections

I cried like a baby when the 1969 season ended with our choke. 1984 hurt too. I really thought last year was our turn and why not, it happens to other teams and then the Mets owned us - same old same old. I share Ommy's "realistic" viewpoint but am having fun with the journey last year and this year. I will believe it when I see it though because I believe the past does matter when it gets to the epic proportion it has for the lovable losers - the laughingstock and butt end of jokes in all of sports for so many decades. Hopefully, this is the year and we can move on like the Red Sox did. If we don't win it all this year, the jokes will become 10-fold.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

I cried like a baby when the 1969 season ended with our choke. 1984 hurt too. I really thought last year was our turn and why not, it happens to other teams and then the Mets owned us - same old same old. I share Ommy's "realistic" viewpoint but am having fun with the journey last year and this year. I will believe it when I see it though because I believe the past does matter when it gets to the epic proportion it has for the lovable losers - the laughingstock and butt end of jokes in all of sports for so many decades. Hopefully, this is the year and we can move on like the Red Sox did. If we don't win it all this year, the jokes will become 10-fold.

In 1984 didn't Sutcliffe tell the club house 'Just get me one run today.' Then gave him like 5 and Sutcliffe proceeded to get rocked and we still lost?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I cried like a baby when the 1969 season ended with our choke. 1984 hurt too. I really thought last year was our turn and why not, it happens to other teams and then the Mets owned us - same old same old. I share Ommy's "realistic" viewpoint but am having fun with the journey last year and this year. I will believe it when I see it though because I believe the past does matter when it gets to the epic proportion it has for the lovable losers - the laughingstock and butt end of jokes in all of sports for so many decades. Hopefully, this is the year and we can move on like the Red Sox did. If we don't win it all this year, the jokes will become 10-fold.

See I just can't look at the past like that. What the 1969, 1984 and 2003 Cubs did has not bearing on this team, on this rebuilt organization at all. It just doesn't. Yes I bring fan baggage like everyone else but there are few if any ties to the past on this team. This is the Ricketts' house and Theo is the architect. I'll be disappointed if they don't make the World Series this year. That's one step further than last year and anybody should be disappointed by stagnation or a step back. If they don't win it though I feel confident they'll get another chance which is a confidence I didn't have with previous teams. It took the 1990's Braves a lot of chances to win a WS and I don't think that was from lack of trying. it's just the nature of the game. I think this is a 2 year window inside a larger, more ambiguous window and I fully expect a World Series win in that smaller window but it has nothing to do with 1908, 1945, 1984, 2003 or whatnot, at least for me.

 

[Washington]

See I just can't look at the past like that. What the 1969, 1984 and 2003 Cubs did has not bearing on this team, on this rebuilt organization at all. It just doesn't. Yes I bring fan baggage like everyone else but there are few if any ties to the past on this team. This is the Ricketts' house and Theo is the architect. I'll be disappointed if they don't make the World Series this year. That's one step further than last year and anybody should be disappointed by stagnation or a step back. If they don't win it though I feel confident they'll get another chance which is a confidence I didn't have with previous teams. It took the 1990's Braves a lot of chances to win a WS and I don't think that was from lack of trying. it's just the nature of the game. I think this is a 2 year window inside a larger, more ambiguous window and I fully expect a World Series win in that smaller window but it has nothing to do with 1908, 1945, 1984, 2003 or whatnot, at least for me.

I see your viewpoint but I also believe everyone in the organization is well aware of the 108 year streak and it is in their heads to some extent. They know about the curse, jinx, Bartman, etc. Theo's legacy is based on whether his rebuild amounts to a World Series championship or not. Every year this rebuild does not include a WS, adds more fodder into their heads. The jokes about them as losers will extrapolate with them being competitive but not pulling it off. I might be alone in this thinking, but it is how I feel. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[chibears55]

In 1984 didn't Sutcliffe tell the club house 'Just get me one run today.' Then gave him like 5 and Sutcliffe proceeded to get rocked and we still lost?

Part of what cost them in 84 was Frey decision to go with Sanderson in Game 4 over his Ace Sutcliffe to shut the door on any momentum for the Padres after the Game 3 win.

It was a 5 game series then, he could of used his Ace in Game 4 and if necessary use Trout in Game 5..
Trout was hot and Padres struggled against lefties.

It was said that Frey had looked ahead to WS and went with Sanderson over Sutcliffe because he wanted to have Sutcliffe ready for Game 1 in WS.

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[SilenceS]

 

[A.C. Milan]

I don't like Kobe second, he has only 5 RBI in July

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I don't like Kobe second, he has only 5 RBI in July

He's slashing .346/.452/.423 in his last 7 games. To hell with the RBI that's an .875 OPS.

 

[A.C. Milan]

He's slashing .346/.452/.423 in his last 7 games. To hell with the RBI that's an .875 OPS.

Yeah it's working fine but personally i'd like to see him third or cleanup

 

[CSF77]

He's slashing .346/.452/.423 in his last 7 games. To hell with the RBI that's an .875 OPS.

As long as they are winning don't care.