IST: NBA Finals Thread: Thunder VS Heat

[CODE_BLUE56]

That is all relative.

for the love of dear baby lord jamima jesus, just submit

SUBMIT I TELL YOU

Some things generally don't change- power forward and centers gather most of the rebounds.

Not always...

Especially when it comes to big positions, you want to assign a defender to a person based on other reasons other than straight-up man-to-man defense.

depending on the circumstance ya, but that doesn't support defense being positional

Putting Ibaka or even Nick Collison on LeBron James could have gotten OKC plenty of second-chance opportunities and elimated a lot of James'/Bosh's offensive rebounds (along with being able to play better interior defense as a team by having a second shot-blocker/contest-er on the court.

well, right..you want to get those guys more involved..i haven't said anything on the contrary

of course,there are definitely drawbacks to it..but i see your point

For a scorer like LeBron James, it is tough to say that you want to put a player on him for reasons other than preventing him from scoring/generating offense but that is what I believe Scott Brooks should've done. It could've very well (at least indirectly) stopped/stalled Miami from scoring.

well,lebron can generate offense in an inadvertent way, such as playing as a stretch 4 when a big man is on him..which leaves the lanes wide open for miami to make offense...

again, you have to be systematic about how you play lebron...you also have to realize that there's more to the game plan than lebron and,at some points, sacrifices have to be made in order to focus on the big picture

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well, no because generally if a PG or SG is posting up then that is apart of isolation offense anyway. There are still generally at least two players on the court who are battling for position on the boards who would fall closer to the PF/C position in their role.

But when Lebron posts up it's not part of an isolation offense, he's playing PF? :shrug:

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Not really true. The game as a whole has become more perimeter-oriented but it isn't all just a helter-skelter mesh.

Nowhere in my post did I say it was all just a helter-skelter mesh.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

The whole positional part of basketball has kind of gone by the wayside, imo, no need to really designate anybody as anything.

pretty much

i mean, we still call players on offense 1-5 or PG,SG,SF,PF,C(partly for the sake of being able to organize and follow everything...often easier for people to follow things if we make labels)

but there's so much flexibility to it that the positions lose a little bit of their intended purposes and meanings

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Well, in all fairness, Thabo was assigned to a player who was doing what PF's are supposed to do offensively. LBJ was posting up, over-powering, and even in some cutting action off of the pick-and-roll (and grabbing offensive rebounds and scoring easily off of them). Thabo is not best served being assigned to a player at the PF position which is what I was saying. He is better guarding (purely) perimeter players for more reasons than one.

Harden was on James for a bit last night in the third and fourth quarter. When Lebron was posting him up was that because he was playing PF, or because James is a superior offensive player and could make easy baskets/draw fouls on Harden?

Me thinks it is the latter.

 

[FirstTimer]

That is all relative. Some things generally don't change- power forward and centers gather most of the rebounds. Especially when it comes to big positions, you want to assign a defender to a person based on other reasons other than straight-up man-to-man defense. Putting Ibaka or even Nick Collison on LeBron James could have gotten OKC plenty of second-chance opportunities and elimated a lot of James'/Bosh's offensive rebounds (along with being able to play better interior defense as a team by having a second shot-blocker/contest-er on the court.

For a scorer like LeBron James, it is tough to say that you want to put a player on him for reasons other than preventing him from scoring/generating offense but that is what I believe Scott Brooks should've done. It could've very well (at least indirectly) stopped/stalled Miami from scoring.

Interesting. You want to put a guy on James to prevent him from scoring.

Tell us more.........

Not really true.

Actually it is in many aspects, namely the "traditional" positions are becoming more and more a thing of the past.

The game as a whole has become more perimeter-oriented but it isn't all just a helter-skelter mesh.

That's not what Prope is/was implying. Read the WSJ.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

pretty much

i mean, we still call players on offense 1-5 or PG,SG,SF,PF,C

but there's so much flexibility to it that the positions lose a little bit of their intended purposes and meanings

I mean, offensively, it just seems to be a way to position guys and run plays - but I don't think it means anything. Jordan developed a superior post game - nobody would consider him to be a PF. He just had that advantage. When James posts up, I don't see him as playing the 4, I see him as using a strength to his game to score points.

 

[clonetrooper264]

pretty much

i mean, we still call players on offense 1-5 or PG,SG,SF,PF,C

but there's so much flexibility to it that the positions lose a little bit of their intended purposes and meanings

I think it's more that the players don't necessarily fit into only one position anymore. You see a lot of combo guards, hybrid forwards, swingmen, and the ever controversial PF/C mix. But yeah the end result is that the player positions aren't as strict as they once were.

 

[FirstTimer]

Harden was on James for a bit last night in the third and fourth quarter. When Lebron was posting him up was that because he was playing PF, or because James is a superior offensive player and could make easy baskets/draw fouls on Harden?

Me thinks it is the latter.

And when Thabo was on James at the end of the game when James hit that three was Thabo playing PF because James is a PF with range or was he playing SG because he was guarding a guy that was shooting from distance?!?!?!?

ZOMG!

 

[FirstTimer]

I mean, offensively, it just seems to be a way to position guys and run plays - but I don't think it means anything. Jordan developed a superior post game - nobody would consider him to be a PF. He just had that advantage. When James posts up, I don't see him as playing the 4, I see him as using a strength to his game to score points.

Quit making sense.

The things you say make too much sense.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

And when Thabo was on James at the end of the game when James hit that three was Thabo playing PF because James is a PF with range or was he playing SG because he was guarding a guy that was shooting from distance?!?!?!?

ZOMG!

Exactly. It means nothing.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

FT,

What do you mean by WSJ? I don't get that.

 

[FirstTimer]

FT,

What do you mean by WSJ? I don't get that.

Wall Street Journal

NBA Playoffs: LeBron James, Kevin Garnett and the Rise of the Position-Less Player - WSJ.com

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Wall Street Journal

NBA Playoffs: LeBron James, Kevin Garnett and the Rise of the Position-Less Player - WSJ.com

Never saw that before, but I was in a wicked argument over the weekend at what constituted an actual point guard.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Well, in all fairness, Thabo was assigned to a player who was doing what PF's are supposed to do offensively. LBJ was posting up, over-powering, and even in some cutting action off of the pick-and-roll (and grabbing offensive rebounds and scoring easily off of them).

that assumes that the positions are little more rigidly defined and that a every-tool-in-the-shed player like lebron wouldn't, you know, use every tool in the shed

lebron did a lot of post up, but hell, so does wade and he doesn't play PF

lebron just was working with what was convenient for him and what could exploit thabo

but again, you can't have the big men out on him the whole time, or lebron will react and exploit that as well, you have to be systematic about it

Thabo is not best served being assigned to a player at the PF position which is what I was saying. He is better guarding (purely) perimeter players for more reasons than one.

well, lebron is not always posting up, he got the ball a bit up top i saw in the 4th, and in that case, you need thabo on him...

i think we should see less thabo on lebron because lebron looks to post up a bit and that would be a little better suited for the big men in some aspects

but again, that has it's own drawbacks

and even in the post, thabo isn't a bad defender, it's just that you are working against a 6'8 260+ muscle man...you're not going to essentially win that battle

 

[Rice Cube]

The players have to be classified as G, F, C etc. but that doesn't mean they can't move around the court at will. In the end they're just basketball players and if they are able to handle the ball, make good passes, use their speed/size/strength to their advantage, etc., to hell with the positions.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

well, lebron is not always posting up, he got the ball a bit up top i saw in the 4th, and in that case, you need thabo on him...

i think we should see less thabo on lebron because lebron looks to post up a bit and that would be a little better suited for the big men in some aspects

but again, that has it's own drawbacks

and even in the post, thabo isn't a bad defender, it's just that you are working against a 6'8 260+ muscle man...you're not going to essentially win that battle

I would have thought putting LJ at the point in this series was the smart move. Whether or not it was Spoelstra, obviously the better move has been playing LJ in the post.

I still think Thabo on Wade is the better defensive option. I'm of the opinion, and it might not be the right one, but frustrate and take Wade out of the equation and make Lebron beat you.

 

[FirstTimer]

Never saw that before, but I was in a wicked argument over the weekend at what constituted an actual point guard.

I would say the primary ball handler of the team. The one who more often than not initiates the offense in the half court. Very generally speaking.

To many people try to base it on "this guy had the most assists"

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I mean, offensively, it just seems to be a way to position guys and run plays - but I don't think it means anything. Jordan developed a superior post game - nobody would consider him to be a PF. He just had that advantage. When James posts up, I don't see him as playing the 4, I see him as using a strength to his game to score points.

right, a thing i added to the post after you quoted it is that it helps to organize, because these kind of labels just make for less confusion, whether it's with actually coaching and orchestrating offense or in simply watching the game as a fan.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I think it's more that the players don't necessarily fit into only one position anymore. You see a lot of combo guards, hybrid forwards, swingmen, and the ever controversial PF/C mix. But yeah the end result is that the player positions aren't as strict as they once were.

that's what i meant by flexibility and players possessing that flexibility

ah..the good old PF/C...like duncan

ya **** you lex