IST: NBA Finals Thread: Thunder VS Heat

[clonetrooper264]

Not that it matters too much, but is Sefalosha still starting for OKC?

:yep:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Sefolosha shouldn't get huge minutes. I think the main times he will be in the game will be end-of-game situations when the Heat need a basket on an OKC defensive possession after a timeout. Durant and Westbrook are both good for at least 40 minutes. Harden should be good for 35. Fisher should fill about 5-10 and Sefolosha will get below 20 minutes.

i doubt it honestly...i'm honestly guessing 25

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

The problem for the Thunder is that Ibaka is likely going to need to be glued on Chris Bosh on the perimeter to make sure he doesn't hit that easy jump-shot. Bosh is in the position to be the difference-maker because he will do enough of keeping Ibaka out of the paint to open things up for Wade and LeBron. Perkins is capable of making those inside baskets tough for Miami but he is the type that can't play huge minutes and is also easy to get into foul trouble. Sefolosha is a great defender to use on Wade or LeBron but he takes away so much from the OKC offense. Harden will be a good enough defender to use the vast majority of the game.

Thabo will be playing plenty of minutes on Wade...while Harden is capable, Thabo is easily the best defender on the team and Wade is an ex factor. They'll do some rotating around with harden,thabo,westbrook(harden can do a little PG handling). Plus, while Thabo isn't a good offensive player, he's more than capable of making a few shots if needed.

You have to expect Ibaka will be rotated to center at some points, and that Bosh won't be out on the perimeter on every possession. Even if he's on Bosh, he can still slide over to help if James or Wade drives. That said, Bosh will help miami in regards to Ibaka

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Thabo will be playing plenty of minutes on Wade...while Harden is capable, Thabo is easily the best defender on the team and Wade is an ex factor. They'll do some rotating around with harden,thabo,westbrook(harden can do a little PG handling). Plus, while Thabo isn't a good offensive player, he's more than capable of making a few shots if needed.

You have to expect Ibaka will be rotated to center at some points, and that Bosh won't be out on the perimeter on every possession. Even if he's on Bosh, he can still slide over to help if James or Wade drives. That said, Bosh will help miami in regards to Ibaka

I imagine that OKC may need to go with Ibaka at center and have Nick Collison guard Bosh.

The thing about playing Thabo for long minutes is that it almost makes Miami a better offensive team by default which would be something OKC should be very weary about allowing to happen.

I am wondering what the status Dwyane Wade's knee is. If it is going to limit him enough then LeBron better be ready to be the man down the stretch. Brandon Bass stupidly forcing LeBron to drive is what allowed him to go off in Game 6 of the ECF. Thabo Sefolosha or even James Harden, for that matter, is going to try to bait LeBron into settling for jump-shots.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I imagine that OKC may need to go with Ibaka at center and have Nick Collison guard Bosh.

The thing about playing Thabo for long minutes is that it almost makes Miami a better offensive team by default which would be something OKC should be very weary about allowing to happen.

I am wondering what the status Dwyane Wade's knee is. If it is going to limit him enough then LeBron better be ready to be the man down the stretch. Brandon Bass stupidly forcing LeBron to drive is what allowed him to go off in Game 6 of the ECF. Thabo Sefolosha or even James Harden, for that matter, is going to try to bait LeBron into settling for jump-shots.

Lebron's going to have to take some offensive responsibility at the end of games if the Heat want a chance to win, I don't think they can beat the Thunder in a close one without Lebron involving himself in the offense unless Wade completely goes off.

How the Heat handle the 4th quarter against a great closing team like the Thunder and one of the best closing players in Durant(and,of course, Harden will always come up with some big shots) is key.

In response to the first paragraph, I agree, and really, they'll rotate between the three guys in the frontcourt to try to get a defensive advantage inside to stop driving.

Not sure exactly what you mean by the second paragraph

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lebron's going to have to take some offensive responsibility at the end of games if the Heat want a chance to win, I don't think they can beat the Thunder in a close one without Lebron involving himself in the offense unless Wade completely goes off.

How the Heat handle the 4th quarter against a great closing team like the Thunder and one of the best closing players in Durant(and,of course, Harden will always come up with some big shots) is key.

In response to the first paragraph, I agree, and really, they'll rotate between the three guys in the frontcourt to try to get a defensive advantage inside to stop driving.

Not sure exactly what you mean by the second paragraph

Basically, Thabo Sefolosha is such a huge step down offensively from Harden that whenever he is out there, the Miami Heat offense should be better than OKC's overall in my opinion. And if Miami's offense outplays OKC's for long enough stretches, OKC might have no chance to win the game seeing as Miami's defense and rebounding is considerably better.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Basically, Thabo Sefolosha is such a huge step down offensively from Harden that whenever he is out there, the Miami Heat offense should be better than OKC's overall in my opinion. And if Miami's offense outplays OKC's for long enough stretches, OKC might have no chance to win the game seeing as Miami's defense and rebounding is considerably better.

that's a pretty blanked assumption..

I don't think you give Thabo enough credit, especially when he was able to wreak havoc on a very very very good spurs defense(which may not be as talented as miami, but surely is better executed and better coached)

He is also a ball hawk, and can create turnovers against Miami(especially against someone like James, who is prone to turning it over) and running it for easy scores in transition(OKC is very good in transition)

rebounding is all about matchups for me. Miami gives up some size down low(part of it is that having Bosh out in the perimeter makes him not in good position to rebound, and he's a bit sporadic sometimes with rebounding)

Durant matches well with James on rebounding(though James is a little better but I think having durant to counter is important), I think Miami has a rebounding advantage in the backcourt, arguably

Btw, in the regular season, OKC was 6th, Miami was 21st in rebounding

Am i saying Miami is not very good at rebounding? No? There were injuries and other factors that go into it? But i dont see miami having a huge rebounding advantage in this series....

 

[houheffna]

Basically, Thabo Sefolosha is such a huge step down offensively from Harden that whenever he is out there, the Miami Heat offense should be better than OKC's overall in my opinion. And if Miami's offense outplays OKC's for long enough stretches, OKC might have no chance to win the game seeing as Miami's defense and rebounding is considerably better.

Totally disagree. I don't think Miami's rebounding is "considerably better" (I told you to watch your adverbs bruh). Miami is averaging less than a rebound per game more than OKC in the playoffs.

And OKC is the number 1 offensive team in the playoffs...averaging 102ppg.

I would be very surprised if things play out the way you say they will because the facts don't support your statements.

 

[Axl Rose]

Not that it matters too much, but is Sefalosha still starting for OKC?

yes

 

[clonetrooper264]

Basically, Thabo Sefolosha is such a huge step down offensively from Harden that whenever he is out there, the Miami Heat offense should be better than OKC's overall in my opinion. And if Miami's offense outplays OKC's for long enough stretches, OKC might have no chance to win the game seeing as Miami's defense and rebounding is considerably better.

Well considering the type of players they are, it shouldn't be a shock that Thabo isn't nearly as good as Harden. However, we have seen a few occasions where Thabo was able to take advantage of his few offensive opportunities and punish the Spurs for ignoring him. And just because he's in the game doesn't mean the big 3 for OKC won't be in either. Like I said, OKC can match up Miami's small lineup with one of their own with Sefolosha, Westbrook, Harden, and Durant all in the game. As far as I'm concerned offensively, Lebron, Wade, Durant, and Westbrook are all going to get theirs. The xfactors will be Bosh and Harden. Then it's just a question of which supporting group outscores the other (Battier/Haslem/Chalmers vs. Sefolosha/Perkins/Ibaka).

 

[Diddy1122]

It honestly blows my mind how most people are picking the Thunder to win despite that they are a jump-shooting team who aren't even close to as good defensively as their opponents.

Maybe it's due to the fact that they are attacking the rim & moving the ball now, instead of settling for those jumpers. Or maybe the fact that they have 3 volume scorers who can break anyone down off the dribble. Or that Durant & Westbrook pose some serious match-up problems for the Heat. Or maybe it's that they beat the Spurs, who hadn't even lost in months before playing them, winning 4 in a row to do so.

Factor in that Miami struggled mightly against an inferior Celtics team that was descimated by injuries. The Heat were missing Bosh for a few games. Yes it affected them. Boston was missing Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal, Jeff Green, & Chris Wilcox. That's nearly their entire bench & their most important role players. Add to that Ray Allen playing with no ankles, it's a shock to me that Miami even struggled in that series. This to me is why they won't beat the infinitely more talented Thunder.

And you talk about Miami's D. It was pathetic in that Celtics series for long stretches. Some of the worst transition D I saw all season. But what do you expect when your stars are more concerned with screaming at the refs after a failed flop attempt than actually running back & maning up on defense.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Maybe it's due to the fact that they are attacking the rim & moving the ball now, instead of settling for those jumpers. Or maybe the fact that they have 3 volume scorers who can break anyone down off the dribble. Or that Durant & Westbrook pose some serious match-up problems for the Heat. Or maybe it's that they beat the Spurs, who hadn't even lost in months before playing them, winning 4 in a row to do so.

Factor in that Miami struggled mightly against an inferior Celtics team that was descimated by injuries. The Heat were missing Bosh for a few games. Yes it affected them. Boston was missing Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal, Jeff Green, & Chris Wilcox. That's nearly their entire bench & their most important role players. Add to that Ray Allen playing with no ankles, it's a shock to me that Miami even struggled in that series. This to me is why they won't beat the infinitely more talented Thunder.

And you talk about Miami's D. It was pathetic in that Celtics series for long stretches. Some of the worst transition D I saw all season. But what do you expect when your stars are more concerned with screaming at the refs after a failed flop attempt than actually running back & maning up on defense.

Last 3 games of that Celtics' series (where Bosh played):

Celtics score 94, 79, and 88.

That is the Heat defense the Thunder will need to overcome.

And the Celtics actually improved as a team after Jermaine O'Neal was lost for the season. Chris Wilcox is a scrub. Jeff Green obviously could've helped and so could have Avery Bradley. But Chris Bosh (by himself) is more valuable to the Heat than all of those guys combined. The Celtics showed themselves to be a better team than Miami minus Bosh.

Also, the Spurs swept a Clippers team with a hobbled Blake Griffin. Everybody should've seen that coming. And they swept the Utah Jazz who were easily the worst team in the post-season.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

that's a pretty blanked assumption..

I don't think you give Thabo enough credit, especially when he was able to wreak havoc on a very very very good spurs defense(which may not be as talented as miami, but surely is better executed and better coached)

He is also a ball hawk, and can create turnovers against Miami(especially against someone like James, who is prone to turning it over) and running it for easy scores in transition(OKC is very good in transition)

rebounding is all about matchups for me. Miami gives up some size down low(part of it is that having Bosh out in the perimeter makes him not in good position to rebound, and he's a bit sporadic sometimes with rebounding)

Durant matches well with James on rebounding(though James is a little better but I think having durant to counter is important), I think Miami has a rebounding advantage in the backcourt, arguably

Btw, in the regular season, OKC was 6th, Miami was 21st in rebounding

Am i saying Miami is not very good at rebounding? No? There were injuries and other factors that go into it? But i dont see miami having a huge rebounding advantage in this series....

Miami wasn't 21st in rebounding- they were 7th but I still feel like Miami has the slight edge on the boards. It is defense where Miami has the clear edge over OKC- not rebounding.

Sefolosha could be a good player to use for many stretches of the game. Maybe they can run Harden at the point and use a combo of wings of KD and Thabo. I don't quite like the idea of using KD at the 4 unless Miami is using LeBron James at the 4 as well, but I suppose we'll see.

And you're right about Scott Brooks being a much better coach than Erik Spoelstra.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Miami wasn't 21st in rebounding- they were 7th but I still feel like Miami has the slight edge on the boards. It is defense where Miami has the clear edge over OKC- not rebounding.

2011-12 NBA Season Summary | Basketball-Reference.com
huh? it says they were 21st ..

clear edge? not 100% on that...OKC's post defense is definitely better than Miami's...the clear advantage is with Lebron,Wade, and Battier but the Thunder do have Thabo in the backcourt and Westbrook is a very good defender. And of course, Durant and Harden are not bad defenders either.

OKC has an incredible offense though, so i think that with miami's defense is an interesting matchup

Citing Miami's defense on Boston is nothing special btw,they were in the bottom of the league in offense this year(and had players out in the playoffs) and are typically not a good offensive team(i do understand that you were responding to someone else)

Sefolosha could be a good player to use for many stretches of the game. Maybe they can run Harden at the point and use a combo of wings of KD and Thabo. I don't quite like the idea of using KD at the 4 unless Miami is using LeBron James at the 4 as well, but I suppose we'll see.

ya, that's what i think could be one possible part of the rotation...and i agree on when to use KD at the 4 as well

And you're right about Scott Brooks being a much better coach than Erik Spoelstra.

duh..that's a big reason i have the thunder winning

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Also, the Spurs swept a Clippers team with a hobbled Blake Griffin. Everybody should've seen that coming. And they swept the Utah Jazz who were easily the worst team in the post-season.

they had won 12(i believe) straight before the playoffs even started..and then, of course, had the thunder on the ropes by putting them in a 2-0 hole...how could people have seen it coming when the spurs were playing pretty damn well?

Hell the spurs, at one point, were beating the thunder by 18 on their home floor in game 6

Don't discredit the spurs because they played a little bit of easy competition going into the WCF...i dont think the heat would have swept those two series

 

[Bear06]

How the hell is that a BETTER question? Me wondering if media, fans, haters, look at both instances objectively has nothing to do with me....it has everything to do with society.


Now did I say something about it in 2009? Go back through the archives and check. Sure did, and so did the media. I don't lay morals/sportsmanship rules aside for people I love or hate. You either right or wrong.

I didn't mind Dirk not shaking hands with them. Other than that, shouldn't be a problem.

If I was Dirk I would have done the same thing after Wade and LeBron were mocking Dirk's illness.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Can't Lebron take a joke? Way to be the bigger person Lebron!!! What a baby!! /every CCS poster if the roles were reversed.

 

[Venom]

Heat!

 

[JosMin]

It's the battle of the horrifically inept coaches!

Heat..... Thunder..... ON NBC!

 

[zack54attack]

This should be a great series. Might come down to how well Wade plays, because right now, Bosh pretty much played a better series vs Boston then Wade did