IST: NBA Finals Thread: Thunder VS Heat

Who Wins Championship


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RamiTheBullsFan

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This is where your "analysis" falls apart. Instead of looking at things from the perspective of Miami vs. Oklahoma City, you look at it from the Miami vs. average NBA team perspective. It doesn't matter if Miami is a "good" rebounding team...it matters if they are better than Oklahoma City, which they aren't. Instead of looking at the players and teams participating, you are quoting stats of how Miami did against Boston and so forth.

Miami is capable of being a better rebounding team than OKC but their coach doesn't value that. Miami used 2 natural PFs over the course of the entire game (Haslem and Bosh at 64 minutes- which is a low-ball estimate because there was playing time where LeBron+Haslem and LeBron+Bosh were the sole "bigs" on the floor). LeBron is a good rebounder but Shane Battier isn't which is also another factor that hurt Miami on the boards. OKC had Perkins, Ibaka, Collison combine to cover 73 of the 96 minutes at the PF/C positions.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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Miami is capable of being a better rebounding team than OKC but their coach doesn't value that. Miami used 2 natural PFs over the course of the entire game (Haslem and Bosh at 64 minutes- which is a low-ball estimate because there was playing time where LeBron+Haslem and LeBron+Bosh were the sole "bigs" on the floor). LeBron is a good rebounder but Shane Battier isn't which is also another factor that hurt Miami on the boards. OKC had Perkins, Ibaka, Collison combine to cover 73 of the 96 minutes at the PF/C positions.

haslem,wade,lebron and bosh(the best 4 rebounders on the team) all got plenty of minutes

wade and lebron went over 40

haslem had 11 boards in 30, bosh played 34

even with joel anthony they give up size up front..miami just isnt a very big team...yet they do rebound well because of lebron and wade
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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:thinking:




ibaka is somewhere smiling right now

Maybe but he won't be smiling if he picks up his 3rd foul mid-way through the 2nd quarter.



they lost on the boards by 8...i dont think joel anthony(if you are referring to him) would have made the difference

he's still a little undersized at 6'9 and he's actually not that great a rebounder

He's still an extra body that can rebound well. Battier had 4 rebounds in 42 minutes. A front-line of Joel Anthony+Chris Bosh+LeBron is a much better rebounding front-line of Chris Bosh+LeBron James+Shane Battier.


OKC +159 rebounding in the reg season, Miami +119

doesn't matter if they can beat other teams in rebounding, they have to rebound better than OKC, which is tough because it looks like OKC is a better rebounding team

Russell Westbrook is a much better rebounder than I give him credit for. I still know Miami is undervaluing rebounding right now based on the line-ups they are playing.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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haslem,wade,lebron and bosh(the best 4 rebounders on the team) all got plenty of minutes

wade and lebron went over 40

haslem had 11 boards in 30, bosh played 34

even with joel anthony they give up size up front..miami just isnt a very big team...yet they do rebound well because of lebron and wade

Joel Anthony is a better rebounder than Wade. Wade is definitely a better rebounder relative to his position but Joel Anthony will pull down more rebounds generally when he and Wade are both out there.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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IMMEDIATELY followed by...


:nope:

A one game sample size is not the best basis for judgement. Boston is a good team and both teams were giving their best output in that series to use to show that Wade is not doing what we are accustomed to seeing him do offensively. And that was Diddy's statement (that Wade is putting up the same stats as always) when he is not.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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Maybe but he won't be smiling if he picks up his 3rd foul mid-way through the 2nd quarter.

doubt he will...ibaka is not the guy i'd be concerned about with foul trouble..

his shot blocking ability helps him to stop at the rim without, ya know, picking up a foul

plus, he has perkins to blanket him with stupid fouls


He's still an extra body that can rebound well. Battier had 4 rebounds in 42 minutes. A front-line of Joel Anthony+Chris Bosh+LeBron is a much better rebounding front-line of Chris Bosh+LeBron James+Shane Battier.
except anthony would not play that much....anthony still only averages a little under 7 rebounds per 36 minutes...not that great

bosh is a question mark..either he rebounds well or he is not much of a factor..there are games where he has like just like 3 or 4 rebounds



Russell Westbrook is a much better rebounder than I give him credit for. I still know Miami is undervaluing rebounding right now based on the line-ups they are playing.
he averages close to 5 RPG on the season...he's a good rebounder, chalmers is not very good at rebounding,btw

i mean we're kind of changing the argument a little to realistic rebounding to capability depending on what Spo throws out there. You know that Spo won't play anthony that much because he prefers haslem, who actually is a better rebounder than anthony, bosh and lebron. He also prefers battier in some situations because he has a very high basketball IQ, can make shots and defensive plays.

the thing is, they could try lineups that would value rebounding, but they would sacrifice other things(such as points, because joel anthony is a pretty terrible offensive player)...if they play their lineup for longer than convenient.

So is miami CAPABLE of rebounding better than OKC, maybe...though i think OKC might honestly be a better rebounding team.
 

FirstTimer

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A one game sample size is not the best basis for judgement. Boston is a good team and both teams were giving their best output in that series to use to show that Wade is not doing what we are accustomed to seeing him do offensively. And that was Diddy's statement (that Wade is putting up the same stats as always) when he is not.

Except that Boston isn't OKC so how Wade did against Boston doesn't really matter that much.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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Joel Anthony is a better rebounder than Wade. Wade is definitely a better rebounder relative to his position but Joel Anthony will pull down more rebounds generally when he and Wade are both out there.

meh..i guess it's kind of a wash between them...you have to consider that this is a hobbled wade though

either way,anthony isn't that great a rebounder relative to his position

i mainly left out anthony on that list of 4 because he plays sporadically...so theoretically he's a little better of a rebounder
 

Diddy1122

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Wade is known for wrecklessly attacking the basket and putting his body on the line. His stats have nearly always fallen between 20-25 points at nearly 50% shooting. Look at his stats for Game 1 and the Boston series- it is not near that.

Look if his knee was really that much of a factor, do you think he would be averaging 42mpg in the playoffs? Wade has had ALOT more good games this playoffs than bad. I'm not buying this debilitating knee injury crap.

Boston Series
Game 1: 22pts, 7asts, 3rebs, 8-13fg, 6-6ft
Game 2: 23pts, 4asts, 6rebs, 8-15fg, 7-11ft
Game 3: 18pts, 4ast, 4rebs, 9-20fg, 0-0ft
Game 4: 20pts, 6asts, 7rebs, 7-22fg, 4-5ft
Game 5: 27pts, 3asts, 6rebs, 10-22fg, 6-8ft
Game 6: 17pts, 4asts, 8rebs, 6-17fg, 5-5ft
Game 7: 23pts, 6asts, 6rebs, 8-17fg, 7-8ft

21.4ppg, 4.8apg, 5.7rpg, 44%fg, 81%ft

He had some bad shooting games in that series but was nowhere near awful or ineffective. Btw, game 1 stats are right in line with his season numbers. His worst play came in that Pacers series until he got his knee drained. After that he was pretty much back to his old self, flopping & whining & all.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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Look if his knee was really that much of a factor, do you think he would be averaging 42mpg in the playoffs? Wade has had ALOT more good games this playoffs than bad. I'm not buying this debilitating knee injury crap.

Boston Series
Game 1: 22pts, 7asts, 3rebs, 8-13fg, 6-6ft
Game 2: 23pts, 4asts, 6rebs, 8-15fg, 7-11ft
Game 3: 18pts, 4ast, 4rebs, 9-20fg, 0-0ft
Game 4: 20pts, 6asts, 7rebs, 7-22fg, 4-5ft
Game 5: 27pts, 3asts, 6rebs, 10-22fg, 6-8ft
Game 6: 17pts, 4asts, 8rebs, 6-17fg, 5-5ft
Game 7: 23pts, 6asts, 6rebs, 8-17fg, 7-8ft

21.4ppg, 4.8apg, 5.7rpg, 44%fg, 81%ft

He had some bad shooting games in that series but was nowhere near awful or ineffective. Btw, game 1 stats are right in line with his season numbers. His worst play came in that Pacers series until he got his knee drained. After that he was pretty much back to his old self, flopping & whining & all.

D-Wade has been a ***** to the officials but his stats are not quite there. Only 44% and 21 ppg is not quite up to D-Wade's standard. And if you watch his shot-selection, he is not being as aggressive in regard to getting the ball in the paint and posting up as he often is.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjc6Vj994Yc&feature=player_embedded]Sefolosha`s `WOW` assist to Westbrook! - YouTube[/ame]

This was the play of the game easily. When I saw this, I jumped out of my seat.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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except anthony would not play that much....anthony still only averages a little under 7 rebounds per 36 minutes...not that great

bosh is a question mark..either he rebounds well or he is not much of a factor..there are games where he has like just like 3 or 4 rebounds




he averages close to 5 RPG on the season...he's a good rebounder, chalmers is not very good at rebounding,btw

i mean we're kind of changing the argument a little to realistic rebounding to capability depending on what Spo throws out there. You know that Spo won't play anthony that much because he prefers haslem, who actually is a better rebounder than anthony, bosh and lebron. He also prefers battier in some situations because he has a very high basketball IQ, can make shots and defensive plays.

the thing is, they could try lineups that would value rebounding, but they would sacrifice other things(such as points, because joel anthony is a pretty terrible offensive player)...if they play their lineup for longer than convenient.

So is miami CAPABLE of rebounding better than OKC, maybe...though i think OKC might honestly be a better rebounding team.

The problem I have with Spoelstra playing Shane Battier 42 minutes (despite the hot-shooting) and Joel Anthony only 2 minutes is that the Miami Heat already have 2 great perimeter defenders in LeBron and D-Wade.

What the Heat really need is a defensive anchor to use all 6 fouls against the abundance of Thunder perimeter scorers.

The Heat are trying to play small-ball (sacrificing defense and rebounding for offense/floor-spacing) and that is NOT a way to beat the Thunder. They would've been better served playing Joel Anthony a lot more and Shane Battier a lot less in my opinion because the 3 main rebounding positions are the 3, 4, and 5. Spoelstra ran the Heat with a 1-2-3-3-and 4 at all times almost and that is no way to compete on the boards. LeBron is better suited rebounding when he is matched up directly with Kevin Durant than he is matched up against Kendrick Perkins/Collison/Ibaka. And Battier is in there purely for spot-up shooting and man-defense. I just don't understand how Spoelstra is an NBA coach.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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The problem I have with Spoelstra playing Shane Battier 42 minutes (despite the hot-shooting) and Joel Anthony only 2 minutes is that the Miami Heat already have 2 great perimeter defenders in LeBron and D-Wade.
i think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks anthony and battier should get the same amount of minutes..

however really with anthony on the floor you're playing with 4 offensive players, he may help you get one or two more rebounds(i doubt it really makes much of a difference) but he is dead weight...

battier was pretty much the reason the heat were up in the first half(as you noted)...he's a very good outside shooter(unlike lebron,wade,and a few others..chalmers is the only other reliable one....james jones doesn't play enough and mike miller is a skeleton), plays good defense, make smart plays

that said, no way do you play him 42 minutes, he shouldn't have been on durant in the 4th quarter either

What the Heat really need is a defensive anchor to use all 6 fouls against the abundance of Thunder perimeter scorers.
that's the big reason you can play joel for 20-25 minutes...let him pick up some fouls and play some D..get some boards...but in that case you're still playing 4 on 5 on offense..so you can not play him too long or you systematically rotate him in when necessary(i don't trust spoelstra to do that though)


The Heat are trying to play small-ball (sacrificing defense and rebounding for offense/floor-spacing) and that is NOT a way to beat the Thunder. They would've been better served playing Joel Anthony a lot more and Shane Battier a lot less in my opinion because the 3 main rebounding positions are the 3, 4, and 5.

not sure that having battier on the floor with lebron and wade sacrifices anything defensively...plus battier's 3 point shooting would actually space the floor

no one is going to argue that joel anthony should get more time, because he should, but he is a limited offensive player and the heat need to be able to keep up with the thunder,which as the heat saw, is the best offense in the NBA. You rotate anthony, haslem, and battier it when convenient. When battier was going cold, they should have taken him out.

but yes the heat have to rebound better because OKC is a very good rebounding team, I don't think with anthony playing 20-25 minutes that's going to change much but atleast it will help a little.

The heat are just not a tall team down low, they have haslem who is a very good rebounder but small, bosh who plays perimeter more, anthony who's not even 6'10 and an ok rebounder, and a couple of other scrubs that never play.




Spoelstra ran the Heat with a 1-2-3-3-and 4 at all times almost and that is no way to compete on the boards.
the problem is not the lineup, it's the fact that he barely adjusted to it when he needed to

that lineup is good for perimeter defense and shooting, but it won't rebound.

When battier was essentially gassed and gone cold, his contribution was defense but he had issues with durant. So Spoelstra should have made the adjustment and gone to a bigger lineup.

LeBron is better suited rebounding when he is matched up directly with Kevin Durant than he is matched up against Kendrick Perkins/Collison/Ibaka. And Battier is in there purely for spot-up shooting and man-defense. I just don't understand how Spoelstra is an NBA coach.
he's not..he's a video guy who got assumed into the position because he's pat riley's *****
 
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BNB

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wow.. OKC is looking like shit.
 

ZDemp34

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Well I've seen all I needed to see

:tongue: the Heat
 

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The Heat had a big lead in the 1st qr last game, too. They gotta sustain it, and they're more apt to running out of energy w/ the shorter bench.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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wade has alot more vitality
 
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