It's Official: Fighting Sioux Nickname Gone

[Shoots_he_scores]

We had a topic on this on the old boards. Long story short the state board of higher education decided to retire the nickname last April. Today was the last day something could have been done to stop it. Even though the tribes want to keep it, we have another example of the government doing what they want and ignoring the native americans that it effects. There are still 2 lawsuits regarding the name in court but it appears efforts are futile now.



I don't know how many of the people here have ties to the Sioux people or natives in general but this is something that was done in a very poor manner and is a perfect example of the government treating these people like shit.



Grand Forks Herald Story

 

[jakobeast]

Booooooooo. Are they keeping the crest?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

wow go smoke a fuckin peace pipe and get over it,..... cant believe this

 

[supraman]

What I heard (no source) is that one or two tribes were against it and that was enough but it does sucka dey ballz

 

[IceHogsFan]

I have family on my wife's side in both Dakota's and they are all Sioux ancestory. My wife, along with her brothers, sisters and mother are also registered

at one of the reservations. They are all adamantly against this and like many, feel that the majority who reside there and are even of Sioux ancestory are not being heard. The PC crap is astounding at times and this is certainly one of them. The NCAA has a hard on for schools that have an affiliation with culture and you only need to look inside Illinois' borders at what happened to Chief Ilini.



The next big question is what happens to the Ralph Engelstad Arena where hockey is played. I had read and been told that Ralph, who privately paid for the arena, would not allow them to use the facility anymore if the Fighting Sioux name were removed. The stadium is loaded with the logos of the Fighting Sioux. Shoots He Scores I believe goes to school there and would have more insight. Toews brother also plays hockey there and it is home of his alumni as well. Would love to hear someone ask Toews about it. Attached are a few pics that show the arena.

 

[jakobeast]

I hope that you are right IHF. I hope the arena owner keeps true.

 

[bri]

So why does Notre Dame get away with using the Fighting Irish? It makes all Irishmen sound like a pack of drunken ruffians. What is their new name going to be?

 

[MassHavoc]

So why does Notre Dame get away with using the Fighting Irish? It makes all Irishmen sound like a pack of drunken ruffians. What is their new name going to be?

Because they have more money than the NCAA. And make them more money.

 

[TSD]

So why does Notre Dame get away with using the Fighting Irish? It makes all Irishmen sound like a pack of drunken ruffians. What is their new name going to be?

Because its ok to use white stereotypes.



In all fairness, the only American Indian Logo's or names I have a problem with is the Washington Redskins (name, logo's fine) and the clevland indians (names fine, logo is atrocious).

 

[MassHavoc]

Because its ok to use white stereotypes.



In all fairness, the only American Indian Logo's or names I have a problem with is the Washington Redskins (name, logo's fine) and the clevland indians (names fine, logo is atrocious).

I would have to agree there.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

Jako: In regards to the logo, it has to go too. The school has to cut all ties to the name and logo. Logos and names on campus have been slowly taken down since April and they have committees working on renaming scholarships and finding a new nickname



IHF: I remember us talking about this now. It really is a travesty the way a small minority at the Standing Rock reservation held up a vote so they could get their way. They held it up for the first two years they had to vote on it. Then last year that small minority lost most of their power and the State Board of Higher Education saw that the tribe was going to vote to keep it and they decided to take matters into their own hands and retire the nickname early. The president of the university and the Athletic Director have since been pretty much chastised by the student body, alumni, and school supporters because they got their jobs with the school two years ago for the sole reason of getting rid of the nickname.



As far as the arena goes: Ralph Engelstad paid 105 million of his own money to build it for the Sioux hockey teams and they are allowed to use it free of charge. When the NCAA put UND on the list of schools with hostile and abusive nicknames he decided to put thousands of sioux indianheads into every facet of the arena so that if the nickname ever changed it would cost millions to get them removed. Ralph has since passed on and the arena is now owned and operated by the Ralph Engelstad Foundation, not the school. With the name set to change the school is unsure if their free rent is going to continue. The logos in the building will be removed so long as they do not jeopardize the structural integrity of the building, so logos that are in the floors, walls, ceilings, etc. will not have to be removed. Logos that are in pieces of the school history like the championship banners, pictures, etc. will not need to be removed. The ones that have to go are the ones on the end of the seat rows and the ones that can be easily removed.

Regardless the arena is by far the best sports venue in North America, and I'm not just saying that as a sioux fan. If anyone here ever has to travel to or through North Dakota or even has a chance to go to a game there I HIGHLY recommend it, you wont regret it.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

wow go smoke a fuckin peace pipe and get over it,..... cant believe this

Funny you mention this Stu cause the UND president and the Chief of the Standing Rock Tribe (The one who never voted on the name), actually smoked a peace pipe together about 40 years ago on the premise of the school having the tribe's permission for perpetual use of the nickname. Unfortunately the powers that be are ignoring that little fact.

 

[MassHavoc]

Funny you mention this Stu cause the UND president and the Chief of the Standing Rock Tribe (The one who never voted on the name), actually smoked a peace pipe together about 40 years ago on the premise of the school having the tribe's permission for perpetual use of the nickname. Unfortunately the powers that be are ignoring that little fact.

That sounds like a binding contract to me.



Almost seems like a case where the minority was holding out against the majority looking for some payoff or something, thinking they held the power. Any chance of that going on?

 

[LordKOTL]

So why does Notre Dame get away with using the Fighting Irish? It makes all Irishmen sound like a pack of drunken ruffians. What is their new name going to be?

Ya know, George Carlin has a great piece on this:

Erin Go **** Yourself

Being Irish, I guess I should resent the Notre Dame nickname, "The Fighting Irish." After all, how long do you think nicknames like "The Bargaining Jews" or "The Murdering Italians" would last? Only the ironic Irish could be so naively honest. I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real closte to naming itself "The Fuckin' Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish."

And for the record, if a school/sports team changed their name to "The Murdering Italians", as a wop myself, I would have no problems with it and would actually encourage that nickname.

 

[supraman]

Being part Norwegian I find the Minnesota Vikings offensive, I want their named changed to the purple fairies

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

That sounds like a binding contract to me.



Almost seems like a case where the minority was holding out against the majority looking for some payoff or something, thinking they held the power. Any chance of that going on?

As far as the sioux people are concerned a peace pipe ceremony is one of the most sacred rituals they have.



In this case as was the case with most of the other nicknames money was most definitely an issue. Unfortunately UND doesn't have the kind of money that schools like Illinois and Florida State have. In this case I think there were definitely some contributions to help get the tribes to vote but ultimately I think the people in power at Standing Rock that wanted the name gone were just kind of looking for a way to be a pain in the ass to the university as those people have had there disagreements with the school on a few unrelated issues

 

[IceHogsFan]

Shoots He Scores, as usual, great insight and thank you. Are you still a student there and if so, when do you graduate? I have family in Tioga and some day I

am going to get out there and see this arena. I know several people who have been there and back up what you say as being one of the best, if not best, hockey

arenas they have ever been too.



This really is a sad and also might I say a pathetic thing to see happen. I just don't get the rational behind Standing Rock trying to assist in the dismantling of the

Fighting Sioux name and logo. The NCAA is bad enough and there actions are just as reprehensible but then again in todays world of academics alot of what is

professed goes against what I believe in. The PC crap needs to end except in cases of outright beligerence and this does not fall into that realm IMO.



Thanks again for the insight on a local level. I was not aware that Ralph had passed either. The old term of rolling in his grave comes to mind.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

Shoots He Scores, as usual, great insight and thank you. Are you still a student there and if so, when do you graduate? I have family in Tioga and some day I

am going to get out there and see this arena. I know several people who have been there and back up what you say as being one of the best, if not best, hockey

arenas they have ever been too.



This really is a sad and also might I say a pathetic thing to see happen. I just don't get the rational behind Standing Rock trying to assist in the dismantling of the

Fighting Sioux name and logo. The NCAA is bad enough and there actions are just as reprehensible but then again in todays world of academics alot of what is

professed goes against what I believe in. The PC crap needs to end except in cases of outright beligerence and this does not fall into that realm IMO.



Thanks again for the insight on a local level. I was not aware that Ralph had passed either. The old term of rolling in his grave comes to mind.

No problem IHF, it really is bullshit whats going on up here but hopefully the Standing Rock tribe wins their lawsuit and something good can come from this.



Unfortunately I am still living here (TOO DAMN COLD UP HERE), I'll be a student here for probably another two years and working here for a year or two after that so I'll be here, going to games for quite some time. If you ever get up to a game here be sure to let me know, tickets can be tough to come by and I could definitely help you out.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Ya know, George Carlin has a great piece on this:





And for the record, if a school/sports team changed their name to "The Murdering Italians", as a wop myself, I would have no problems with it and would actually encourage that nickname.

I would probably buy a Jersey and put my last name on the back !



(It's Italian)

 

[Variable]

Yeah how is it that there is this kind of judgment on a team where it seems like the majority of the actual tribe don't have a problem with it, but a team with the name "Redskins" is still around while there is plenty of criticism on it and doesn't show any signs of changing? That's like having a team called the New York Niggers.