It's time

[beckdawg]

Not according to this....

https://www.cubsinsider.com/2017/08/10/surprising-name-atop-list-cubs-fastest-baserunners/

To be honest i just assumed he was faster being a smaller guy and a CFer..
Just found this via Google

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This isn't really a good way to measure speed IMO. That's effectively measuring top end speed rather than more realistic cases. For example, if you're trying to steal a base you're almost never getting to top end speed. It's more about how fast you get up to near max speed. Additionally if you're talking about stealing(not sure why with the cubs because Maddon doesn't like to run) or just baserunning in general, that is more to do with instincts than top end speed. The highest rated base runner score for 2017 on the cubs was Bryant and I'm certain he isn't the fastest player the cubs have. Like wise in 2016 it was also bryant beating out even Fowler.

As for hitting, I'm not getting into that debate. You either believe Heyward can improve or you don't. Clearly you don't. As for defense.... come on now man. Heyward is a multiple time gold glover. Almroa may be a good defensive CF but Heyward is +7 DRS/16.4 UZR/150 in CF over 493.1 innints and +131 DRS/17.9 UZR/150 in RF over 8705 innings. I'm probably Almora's biggest fan on this site but he's -1 DRS/5.7 UZR/150 in CF over 836 innings and +1 DRS/10.8 UZR/150 over 881.1 innings in OF overall(26.1 innings in LF and only 19 in RF). Even if you feel like I do that Almora's defense will get even better with more regular playing time it's not even close here. Almora is probably a fringe gold glove candidate and Heyward is the best RF of this generation.

 

[chibears55]

That doesn't really mean much. How many of those 73 innings had Almora in CF? For example, there's the very real possibility that they were playing Jay last year in CF who has a worse arm than Happ and Almora was still on the bench.

Regardless, I think your hope that they bench Heyward isn't particularly realistic. The cubs are going to score enough runs to win games with or without Heyward in the daily line up. And if that's the case, you take defense over more runs. You never know exactly how many runs you'll need to win a game but if you could what you would want is enough offense to get that total and then your best defense after it so that you limit damage to your own pitchers in terms of pitches thrown. Additionally, if you're making the case for Happ as the every day CF with one of Almora/Heyward on the bench, you almost certainly would prefer Almora on the bench. You already have La Stella as a LH pinch hitter and Almora kills LH pitching. He's a better complement in that regard. Heyward as a PH doesn't really offer you as much.

Never said i hope they bench him just to bench him...

My first stance was that i felt Happ would get the nod in C.F. more often then not if he continues to hit well, which would then push Almora to the bench and be more of a defensive guy..

My thoughts on Heyward was that if he continues to suckass this year, then they would most likely bench him and that it wouldnt surprise me if Maddon chose Zobrist to play RF more over Almora..

I hope not because id prefer to see Almora play..

At the suggestion of Almora in RF and leaving Happ in CF when they both play, i just think Maddon would prefer Almora in center between the two..
We'll see how that plays out

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[CSF77]

Not sure how you can say he flat out not better then him TODAY...

I would bet that given both 100 AB/ PA , that Almora would have more hits and better OBP then Heyward..

Almora has 440 career PA and has a career .292 Avg .330 OBP .448 SLG
.777 OPS

If it HR power youre comparing, he hit 8 last year on just 299 AB..
Heyward hit just 11 in 432 AB, and 7 the year before in 532 AB..

So, ill take Almora power over Heyward right now ..

Ill take Almora defense, speed, baserunning, and hitting over Heyward right now, all day everyday...

Heyward 1073 PA last 2 years
18 HRs .243 Avg .316 OBP .673 OPS




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BB% Almora: 5.9 Projected(zips)4.8% Heyward: 8.5 (zips): 9.3% The rest are pretty close but that 4-5% is impacting their WAR the most. Outside of that Heyward is projecting a 8.4 DWAR while Almora is a 4.8. You could argue that gap closes in RF.

At the end of the day we are talking a small difference between the two. OBA is close over all. Heyward walks more and Almora hits more. It then comes down to RH vs LH hitting which skewed toward Jason.
Add to it you need to split Russell and Baez with a lefty vs go 3 RH in a row.

That is why I was saying that Jr needs to get into a strengthening program and redevelop his swing into a power hitting stroke. Everything else with his game is solid but he needs to make the next step. Being a contact hitter is going to make him into a plus D Matt Murtan and he ended up in Japan. Great hitter in a league that doesn't matter.

 

[chibears55]

BB% Almora: 5.9 Projected(zips)4.8% Heyward: 8.5 (zips): 9.3% The rest are pretty close but that 4-5% is impacting their WAR the most. Outside of that Heyward is projecting a 8.4 DWAR while Almora is a 4.8. You could argue that gap closes in RF.

At the end of the day we are talking a small difference between the two. OBA is close over all. Heyward walks more and Almora hits more. It then comes down to RH vs LH hitting which skewed toward Jason.
Add to it you need to split Russell and Baez with a lefty vs go 3 RH in a row.

That is why I was saying that Jr needs to get into a strengthening program and redevelop his swing into a power hitting stroke. Everything else with his game is solid but he needs to make the next step. Being a contact hitter is going to make him into a plus D Matt Murtan and he ended up in Japan. Great hitter in a league that doesn't matter.

Here what ive seen with my eyes, Heyward has basically sucked at the plate the last 2 years here and Almora has played well..
End of debate between the two

But once again ill hope Heyward figures it out because he a cub

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[chibears55]

Just noticed Otani numbers this Spring..
Wonder if Angels keep him up or start him in AAA

32 PA 3 hits 9 Ks .107 Avg

2.2 IP 9 hits 9 Runs 3 Hrs 2 BB 1 HBP 5 Ks

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[brett05]

Just noticed Otani numbers this Spring..
Wonder if Angels keep him up or start him in AAA

32 PA 3 hits 9 Ks .107 Avg

2.2 IP 9 hits 9 Runs 3 Hrs 2 BB 1 HBP 5 Ks

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He starts on Sunday

 

[chibears55]

He starts on Sunday

Surprising with just 2 ip and the struggle...

Hope they dont get the kid hurt or ruin him by pushing him to start when it clear that he doesnt look ready..

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[CSF77]

Here what ive seen with my eyes, Heyward has basically sucked at the plate the last 2 years here and Almora has played well..
End of debate between the two

But once again ill hope Heyward figures it out because he a cub

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Arguing 2 hitters that hit below .200 in ST is a wasted effort. I think we can call it: Almora blew his opertunity and Happ ran with it.

 

[chibears55]

Arguing 2 hitters that hit below .200 in ST is a wasted effort. I think we can call it: Almora blew his opertunity and Happ ran with it.

Not even considering what either did in ST, and nothing to do with Happ..
This was about comparing Heyward and Almora

You said Heyward was better then Almora and said Almora needing more strength for power..

I disagreed and compared what each have done over the last 2 seasons and even showed Almora power numbers were good and even better then Heywards...

If it were my choice between the two to start, id choose Almora

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[CSF77]

Not even considering what either did in ST, and nothing to do with Happ..
This was about comparing Heyward and Almora

You said Heyward was better then Almora and said Almora needing more strength for power..

I disagreed and compared what each have done over the last 2 seasons and even showed Almora power numbers were good and even better then Heywards...

If it were my choice between the two to start, id choose Almora

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wOBA does support your stance. I’m pretty sure production with dictate some what.

 

[chibears55]

wOBA does support your stance. I’m pretty sure production with dictate some what.

Lol.. you sure?
2017 Woba
Heyward 481 PA .311
Almora 323 PA .334

I have more confidence today with Almora over Heyward, that Id bet the farm that after each player has 100 PAs, Almora will have better numbers then Heyward ..



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[CSF77]

Lol.. you sure?
2017 Woba
Heyward 481 PA .311
Almora 323 PA .334

I have more confidence today with Almora over Heyward, that Id bet the farm that after each player has 100 PAs, Almora will have better numbers then Heyward ..



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Production is a factor. But payroll commitment is also one.

1. They are not going to cut him with that much on the table.

2. If you have any hope of trading when his window opens he needs to build value.

3. He was worth +8.4 dWAR last year. If you “not meaning directly” approve of Baez striking out 30% of the time to put his glove in at 2B because of the “D” factor then Heyward holds the same weight. Even more because while Baez is good 2B D Heyward is eliete.

Look I’m not a favorite of his. I did not like that signing but it is not my money spent. And this is a business.

 

[chibears55]

Production is a factor. But payroll commitment is also one.

1. They are not going to cut him with that much on the table.

2. If you have any hope of trading when his window opens he needs to build value.

3. He was worth +8.4 dWAR last year. If you “not meaning directly” approve of Baez striking out 30% of the time to put his glove in at 2B because of the “D” factor then Heyward holds the same weight. Even more because while Baez is good 2B D Heyward is eliete.

Look I’m not a favorite of his. I did not like that signing but it is not my money spent. And this is a business.

I get payroll a factor, why i origionally said that if he wasn't being paid all that money he'd be in Iowa or benched..

1. I never flat out said he should be cut or released... never...

2. I agree

3. I agree he brings a gold glove to the game..

This all started with you saying that Heyward is better today then Almora ..
I simply didagreed..

This is all that it is..
I just simply disagree with you that today, Heyward is better then Almora..
At least at the plate he isnt..

Not sure how you can argue that

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[chibears55]

In case you were wondering

https://twitter.com/sahadevsharma/status/979071998906249216?s=19

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[TC in Mississippi]

In case you were wondering

https://twitter.com/sahadevsharma/status/979071998906249216?s=19

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Makes sense. I didn't they'd be ready to part with Butler yet and he's out of options.

 

[CSF77]

I get payroll a factor, why i origionally said that if he wasn't being paid all that money he'd be in Iowa or benched..

1. I never flat out said he should be cut or released... never...

2. I agree

3. I agree he brings a gold glove to the game..

This all started with you saying that Heyward is better today then Almora ..
I simply didagreed..

This is all that it is..
I just simply disagree with you that today, Heyward is better then Almora..
At least at the plate he isnt..

Not sure how you can argue that

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Over all they are close. What Heyward loses at the plate he gains in the OF.

Here is the thing: they are really close right now but over the last 2 years Heyward has been the “worst” that he has ever been at the plate. .282 in 2016 was his worst year. .311 last year pretty much ties his previous one. He has been up to .377. Career avg is .333.

So honestly this is as bad as it gets for him. The real question is: is this what he is and that was then. Or is this just a lull over a career.

Only time tells.

 

[chibears55]

Over all they are close. What Heyward loses at the plate he gains in the OF.

Here is the thing: they are really close right now but over the last 2 years Heyward has been the “worst” that he has ever been at the plate. .282 in 2016 was his worst year. .311 last year pretty much ties his previous one. He has been up to .377. Career avg is .333.

So honestly this is as bad as it gets for him. The real question is: is this what he is and that was then. Or is this just a lull over a career.

Only time tells.

He been pretty much crap at the plate the last 2 yrs..
Guess you can say he improved a bit last year..

We'll just agree to disagree here

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[CSF77]

He been pretty much crap at the plate the last 2 yrs..
Guess you can say he improved a bit last year..

We'll just agree to disagree here

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Fair enough. I tend to believe that a player will eventually find himself.

But

We saw this with Castro.

Was a hit machine

Theo tinkered

He sucked

Traded

Went back to his norms post trade

 

[chibears55]

Cardinals gave up a draft pick and signed Holland 1 yr 14 mil

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[fatbeard]

Fair enough. I tend to believe that a player will eventually find himself.

But

We saw this with Castro.

Was a hit machine

Theo tinkered

He sucked

Traded

Went back to his norms post trade

That wasn't "Theo tinkering," that was the league figuring him out and Castro failing to adjust. And he hasn't come close to his pre-Theo norms with the Yankees.

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4579&position=2B/SS

This take is just all kinds of wrong.