Jed Hoyer Disses Cubs Fans

[beckdawg]

Would you agree Fielder types aren't always available?
Fielder types make everyone in the lineup better as well

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Depends on what you mean. If you're talking about power hitting 1B I'd argue they are available more than say a SS or CF. If you're talking about a player who is say 4+ WAR(or whatever he averages as I don't feel like looking it up), then there's usually someone available on the market. This year Elsbury is that guy. Clearly they are different players but both contribute to winning.

As I've mentioned with Kershaw, I think he's the type of guy that it doesn't matter your situation he's someone who every team should consider going after. Even if you're good in SP you don't likely have 5 pitchers as good as him. Even if you're rebuilding his age allows him to contribute. If you're contending the ramification are obvious.

To be blunt, I feel most FA are perceived as being desirable because of the lack of other choices. Schierholtz wasn't a sexy signing but his production really was one of the best for OF's signed in the past off season. Most players aren't like Kershaw. So, yes there are some guys that are worth the full court press type coverage. But, I'm not sure many others are worth it. Best case is the guy lives up to the money you pay him. Worst case is he's terrible and you can't get rid of him. It's very rare that a FA out performs his contract at the top FA level.

 

[CSF77]

Also Brett the Cubs don't have the same revinue streams that NYY and the LAD have. They are getting hammered by the city and their codes. Then they have no financial support from the city or state. Just remember who paid for Solders field and new Comisky. Answer is the city and state funded it while the Cubs are getting no support and a shaft by the alderman letting the rooftops pirate seats for games.

Whole thing makes me sick. I think you are expecting too much with out knowing the books to back it up.

P.S.: politics is dirty business and look who was in power when that support went through and see what team they were a fan of. Betting the rivalry plays a big part of who gets their back scratched and who has to fend for them self up stream.

 

[SilenceS]

Jed Hoyer disses Cubs fans

Also Brett the Cubs don't have the same revinue streams that NYY and the LAD have. They are getting hammered by the city and their codes. Then they have no financial support from the city or state. Just remember who paid for Solders field and new Comisky. Answer is the city and state funded it while the Cubs are getting no support and a shaft by the alderman letting the rooftops pirate seats for games.

Whole thing makes me sick. I think you are expecting too much with out knowing the books to back it up.

I'm not a Brett supporter but no one knows the books and the info out there suggest they aren't hurting. Yet again, I support the minors but they are not using all the resources try have and that sits squarely on ownership

 

[CSF77]

I'm not a Brett supporter but no one knows the books and the info out there suggest they aren't hurting. Yet again, I support the minors but they are not using all the resources try have and that sits squarely on ownership

Read the PS. Anyways the Cubs were bringing 3 mil per while the Sox 2 mil per. Cubs are a bigger cash cow for the city but the city won't lift a finger to help them. They are still blocking progress on the Cubs gaining new resource.

Bottom line is the business side is soaking profit and they are not adding new resource because of the pending lawsuit which is backed by the alderman. They are still locked into a crap tv deal. They do not have this great supposed resource going on. That is myth. I'm inclined to believe right now they are mid market because of the screw job. They have the potential for sure when things resolve.

 

[Boobaby1]

not sure where you got your figures from but your a bit off...
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league-central/chicago-cubs/

cubs payroll right now stand at $49,259,524, which has just 5 players on their roster that will go north..

you have to figure they will AVG at the very least 2 mil per for the remaining 20, so that will get their payroll at the very least in the 90 MIL range..

so, im sure when its all said and done they will be close to 100 MIL..




2004-2007 their payroll ranged between 87 MIL and 99 MIL, so it wasnt that long ago...




first off. Tanaka isnt about payroll, the cubs can handle his yearly salary..
its more about what its going to cost to BID for him and if just talking to him is worth X amount of dollars ? and what amount is that worth ?
the yankees, dodgers, angels are teams that probably wont have any problem throwing out X amount of dollars right now to talk to Tanaka and im sure with their billion dollar TV deals and revenues flowing in, their not too concerned about how much to throw out there for him..

cubs could BID a 100 MIL and those 3 teams could go well into the 100s without blinking an eye..

so, to answer your question.. they could very easily be outbidded by 3 teams who have more revenue and money flowing their way now...

My figures came from your same source, and also the arbitration figures posted came from a good source also. Just look up "arbitration eligible players for 2014 Chicago Cubs".

My whole argument is that the Cubs with players on the 40 man roster are going to suck like they have been, so why not win the only free agent acquisition sweepstakes that the Cubs need in Tanaka and fill out the rest of the roster with cheapies?

Does anyone really think that the Cubs are going to do anything in 2014?

Everyone is quick to say that they can't do it or there is no guarantee that they can win with free agent acquisitions, and I am going to counter that argument and guarantee that the Cubs will suck once again because they are remaining at the same level as last year if not worse. Any one going to dispute this?

So throw the money at something that is going to help the team in the future and groom him with the rest of the talent coming up and help provide the ultimate goal which is winning a WS.

Rickett's stated that Tanaka was his number one priority this year. I think he had to know that he would be bucking the big boys in New York and LA or if he didn't, he is a friggin' idiot.

Time to put the big boy pants on Tommy and walk the walk.

 

[beckdawg]

Everyone is quick to say that they can't do it or there is no guarantee that they can win with free agent acquisitions, and I am going to counter that argument and guarantee that the Cubs will suck once again because they are remaining at the same level as last year if not worse. Any one going to dispute this?

I might. It depends on what you consider "not sucking." I think it's a stretch to say the cubs will be a 85+ win team. However, if Rizzo and Castro rebound and the team can tread water until the presumed baez/bryant call ups then I think they can be a .500 team. I think there are low cost players that can make the cubs a better team than they were last year. For example, I've long been on the Haren bandwagon. I think his metrics suggest a pitcher who will be better than his traditional numbers suggest. I don't think it's that ridiculous to suggest he can match the 10 win 3.83 ERA season Garza had last year. I also think a guy like Drew Stubbs would be a real benefit for the team because he gives them speed they are missing off the bench and could effectively platoon in RF with Schierholtz. If they then added someone like Nate McLouth or Corey Hart I feel the uptick they would get in OBP would actually benefit them over say the power that Soriano had vs his very poor OBP.

Honestly, I've been saying it for awhile here but I want to see them go after FA who fix the issues they had in OBP. They were very good with regard to power metrics last year even if you exclude Soriano. And you probably will have half a season of Baez and Bryant as well. However, if they were to add someone like Denard Span or Logan Morrison some how I think it would really benefit them. Suddenly Castro(if in the 2 hole) is hitting with people on and if he's back to a .300 hitter that's a good thing. That then sets the table for Rizzo...etc.

If they do that then I give them an outside shot at being half way decent.

 

[CSF77]

I believe that they will put up 50 mil expecting to lose the bid. 25 plus the 25 from the tv deal.

I'll disagree with you on it though. Cubs would be better served using that resource on players. I would be happy if they inked Kaz. Then extended both Wood and Shark. That would stabilize the rotation and move away from turning over 2/5 of the rotation per.

Then they should start to see what they have in Olt. Get Baez ML ready.

Thing is by this time next year they could be sitting with a solid core and thinking on adding vets makes more sense. It makes the team look like a contender vs making a 60 win team into a 70 win team.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

I might. It depends on what you consider "not sucking." I think it's a stretch to say the cubs will be a 85+ win team. However, if Rizzo and Castro rebound and the team can tread water until the presumed baez/bryant call ups then I think they can be a .500 team. I think there are low cost players that can make the cubs a better team than they were last year.

Are you on crack? Where do the wins comes from in that division with that lousy ass team? Cardinals, Pirates, Reds are playoff caliber teams. The Brewers suck but they're still better than you. What planet do you live in where the Cubs go .500?

 

[Boobaby1]

I believe that they will put up 50 mil expecting to lose the bid. 25 plus the 25 from the tv deal.

I'll disagree with you on it though. Cubs would be better served using that resource on players. I would be happy if they inked Kaz. Then extended both Wood and Shark. That would stabilize the rotation and move away from turning over 2/5 of the rotation per.

Then they should start to see what they have in Olt. Get Baez ML ready.

Thing is by this time next year they could be sitting with a solid core and thinking on adding vets makes more sense. It makes the team look like a contender vs making a 60 win team into a 70 win team.

Here is where I differ in opinion. I tend to look at the emphasis of pitching and landing a potential ACE for money. Shark to me is more of an asset to trade away and put an arm(s) into the system. I am not overvaluing him, but he is an asset and one of the few the Cubs have to acquire something none-the-less.

I am not banking on Baez and Bryant making it at the end of next year for good, but rather putting Tanaka, Bryant, Baez, Alcantara, Hendricks and any arm(s) that they can acquire for Shark as close to the parent club as possible, and then having the next wave of talent being Soler, Edwards, Johnson, Black, and Almora coming behind them.

Inking Tanaka, extending Wood, and filling out the rest of the roster with scrubs is where I would go and that would be enough for me. If that is considered tanking, so be it. I could honestly care less about 2014 because they will stink again IMO, but they will get another high draft pick the following year. This is going to be another year of trial and error with players like Olt, Sweeney, Bogs and Lake, and the new coaching staff. I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Are players like McClouth, Kaz, and Suzuki (if this is who they pick up) really going to catapult this team to respectability? I say no!

Also, expecting Rizzo to rebound with no protection and Castro to finally pull his head out of his ass is stretching it a bit if you ask me, and when they trade these newly acquired guys off at the deadline, you will have another disgruntled Shark if he is even on the team.

 

[Boobaby1]

I might. It depends on what you consider "not sucking." I think it's a stretch to say the cubs will be a 85+ win team. However, if Rizzo and Castro rebound and the team can tread water until the presumed baez/bryant call ups then I think they can be a .500 team. I think there are low cost players that can make the cubs a better team than they were last year. For example, I've long been on the Haren bandwagon. I think his metrics suggest a pitcher who will be better than his traditional numbers suggest. I don't think it's that ridiculous to suggest he can match the 10 win 3.83 ERA season Garza had last year. I also think a guy like Drew Stubbs would be a real benefit for the team because he gives them speed they are missing off the bench and could effectively platoon in RF with Schierholtz. If they then added someone like Nate McLouth or Corey Hart I feel the uptick they would get in OBP would actually benefit them over say the power that Soriano had vs his very poor OBP.

Honestly, I've been saying it for awhile here but I want to see them go after FA who fix the issues they had in OBP. They were very good with regard to power metrics last year even if you exclude Soriano. And you probably will have half a season of Baez and Bryant as well. However, if they were to add someone like Denard Span or Logan Morrison some how I think it would really benefit them. Suddenly Castro(if in the 2 hole) is hitting with people on and if he's back to a .300 hitter that's a good thing. That then sets the table for Rizzo...etc.

If they do that then I give them an outside shot at being half way decent.

Are these guys like McClouth and Haren even going to be on the team if they are out of it? Hell, even if Bryant and Baez both made it up at the end of the year, it's not as if they would be playing with anyone because the Cubs would trade them off to a contender for more prospects.

Also, the Marlins aren't just going to hand over Morrison. What's that going to cost as far as talent since he has already played in the majors?

 

[beckdawg]

Are you on crack? Where do the wins comes from in that division with that lousy ass team? Cardinals, Pirates, Reds are playoff caliber teams. The Brewers suck but they're still better than you. What planet do you live in where the Cubs go .500?

The run differential at last year's trade deadline was that of a .500 team. So, at that point you're basically needing to replace Garza and Soriano's production. As I said, it wouldn't be that unrealistic to expect Haren to win 10 games and have an ERA of 3.83 especially when you consider his second half was really good. As for Soriano, you're not going to replace 30 HRs with what they plan to spend but honestly, I don't think that's what they need. As the article below suggest they need to improve their OBP.

I'd also point you toward this article
http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2013/11/5-inexpensive-ways-the-cubs-can-really-improve-in-2014/

You're assuming none of the teams in the central regress. A lot can happen. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that they are a .500 team but if things go right why can't they be a .500 team? Their pitching was largely fine last year and that's with Jackson and Shark having iffy years for what you'd like out of them. That is also with Arrieta not getting many starts and he very well could be a solid contributor in 2014. The problem the cubs had was their were horrible at getting on base in 2013 and that lead to very few runs. Rizzo and Castro improving is a large part of the solution and presumably a half season of Baez and Bryant could make a very big difference.

So, I stand by my statement that if they can tread water until those call ups they have a shot to be a .500 team.

 

[beckdawg]

Are these guys like McClouth and Haren even going to be on the team if they are out of it? Hell, even if Bryant and Baez both made it up at the end of the year, it's not as if they would be playing with anyone because the Cubs would trade them off to a contender for more prospects.

Also, the Marlins aren't just going to hand over Morrison. What's that going to cost as far as talent since he has already played in the majors?

As for them being with the team, depends. Depends on how bad they are and how their deals shape out. If the cubs are no where near .500 then likely they will be dealt. However, You can make a strong case that both would be kept for not just the 2014 season but also 2015+ with presumably Baez and Bryant both having a shot to make that team out of camp.

As for Morrison, he's had numerous spats with the front office there. I'm not saying they are going to just let the dude go for nothing but I doubt seriously it would take a major prospect to get him(eg 1-5 guys). And really, you could sub in numerous other guys for him in a trade. It's really just an OF with positive OBP. I've just heard his named mentioned a few places as a possible guy which is also where the Span thing came from.

Cleveland went from 68 wins to 92 by adding Swisher and Bourn. I'm not saying the cubs will add two players at that level but then I'm not saying the cubs will win 90 games either. Colorado was +10 wins from 2012. KC was +14. Boston was +28. Again, I'm not saying the cubs are those teams but the simple fact is every year some team is going to win 10-15 more games than the year before. And there's no denying that if the cubs do indeed tread water and win say 45% of their games until the call ups that there's a good shot a grouping of Baez, Rizzo, and Castro plus potentially Alcantara and Bryant would make them a fairly decent team.

 

[beckdawg]

Oh and I'd also throw out the 2012 O's as another example. They won 69 games the year prior. They had A. Jones who clearly was a budding star. Hardy was a solid SS. Wieters was a very good catcher and they had Reynolds laying around. Their big additions were Chris Davis(at the time a failed Texas prospect), Wei-Yin Chen, Jason Hammel, and Tommy Hunter. None of these guys were high profile trades/signings. Chen got 3 years $11,338,000. Hammel was traded by the Colorado Rockies with Matt Lindstrom to the Baltimore Orioles for Jeremy Guthrie. Hunter was traded by the Texas Rangers with Chris Davis to the Baltimore Orioles for Koji Uehara.

Is it that difficult to believe the cubs could make similar level trades and benefit? We're talking about finding 15 wins. To get to the NL average in runs they just need to score 47 more runs than they did this year or about 1 more every 4 games.

 

[brett05]

Depends on what you mean.

superstar studs on the cusp or in the prime of their play that are young ala Fielder/Kershaw (possibly). It's rare.

 

[brett05]

Also Brett the Cubs don't have the same revinue streams that NYY and the LAD have.

No they don't have fat new TV contracts. They do have everything else and more though. What and when they choose to use it is ownerships issues.

They are getting hammered by the city and their codes.

That's not unique to the Cubs.

Then they have no financial support from the city or state.

So?

Just remember who paid for Solders field and new Comisky. Answer is the city and state funded it...

I can't comment on Soldier Field but Us Cellular was paid back in 1993 thanks in large part to the Playoffs that the team participated in.
This was done to keep the Sox in town/state as they were St. Pete bound.

the Cubs are getting no support and a shaft by the alderman letting the rooftops pirate seats for games.

The Cubs signed the contract with the rooftops. What should make you sick is the swarminess of current ownership trying to circumvent the contractual obligations.

 

[nwfisch]

The Cubs signed the contract with the rooftops. What should make you sick is the swarminess of current ownership trying to circumvent the contractual obligations.

Yes. :clap:

 

[SilenceS]

This Cubs team will be playing for 100 losses as it sits. If they add some people, I say they lose 95. Pitching is weaker and is going to be weaker unless they sign Tanaka. The bullpen is still a mess. And the lineup looks like a AAA lineup and you don't even have a 4th hitter yet and there is not many out there. We could actually have Nate in the 4th spot.

 

[SilenceS]

Pitching kept the Cubs in games last year. The offense was horrendous. Well, the offense is still horrendous and the pitching is worse so yea. They are looking at 90 plus losses at least.

 

[beckdawg]

Pitching kept the Cubs in games last year. The offense was horrendous. Well, the offense is still horrendous and the pitching is worse so yea. They are looking at 90 plus losses at least.

That's probably the safer bet. But like I said, you never know. The cubs were 20-33 in 1 run games last year. If that's .500 they are much closer to being a .500 team. Those 13 games are the difference between 66 wins and 79 wins.

 

[chibears55]

so why not win the only free agent acquisition sweepstakes that the Cubs need in Tanaka and fill out the rest of the roster with cheapies?

im sure they will try to win, but like i said they could bid 100 MIL and still get beat out by 3 teams who have more revenue coming in then they do in the Angels, yankees, and Dodgers.. so, not sure how much of their money you want them to throw out there on 1 player but im guessing their not going to get too crazy.

Everyone is quick to say that they can't do it or there is no guarantee that they can win with free agent acquisitions, and I am going to counter that argument and guarantee that the Cubs will suck once again because they are remaining at the same level as last year if not worse. Any one going to dispute this?

being that its just Nov. 20th, id like to wait and see what transactions they make between now and opening day before i start guessing how i see their upcoming season..
they have 5 players signed that will be on their 25 man roster ( barring any of them getting traded ), id like to wait and see who they add for the remaining 20 players.. im sure most of their ARB players will be on the roster, but id like to wait and see contracts signed first..

of the 5 you would think castro and rizzo will bounce back with a better year..
ryan sweeney a good 4th OFer, carlos Villanueva will probably be a much better reliever then starter..
edwin jackson should be better then last year, because if he any worse he should be out of baseball...