Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[brett05]

They are a lot closer to being the same apparently than those posts I or others wrote claiming Samardzija is better than Tanaka.

Not like you to do this. Take the middle ground and admit both positions are wrong

 

[nwfisch]

My whole point is while the tools may be there (I don't think they are, whatever).

No team is going to pay to develop and harness those tools on a 30 year old pitcher.

 

[SilenceS]

So no credit for AL pitching?????

ERA+ is a stat that adjusts for league and ballpark. They have comparable numbers before last season.

 

[SilenceS]

My whole point is while the tools may be there (I don't think they are, whatever).

No team is going to pay to develop and harness those tools on a 30 year old pitcher.

Shark has a round 1000 innings on his arm. Garza has over 1500 and is younger. Grienke has over 1700.

 

[beckdawg]

I mean to me it's really this simple. I'm down for trading shark because he's going to be what 29 next year? He has the tools to have a break out season similar to Scherzer. Hopefully that is from April through at least july next year and they get a kings ransom for him. The reason I think you trade him is that few pitchers are able to pitch into their 40's as effective as most pitchers pitch in their 32-36ish range. So, unless Shark turns into a player like randy johnson(talking longevity not his overall talent) and can have his peak at arguably 35-40 it just really doesn't jive with the cubs plans. On the other hand, if Shark is a more typical type pitcher you only have a couple more years at his peak. Maybe that's pushed back slightly by the wear on him being minimal. But you're probably looking at a 32+ year old Shark before the cubs are a perennial contender.

However, the return they get back really needs to be at least 2 quality players. If they do nothing else and just let him walk in 2 years they are going to get a 1st round pick out of the deal. A first round pick ought to be a top 100 player if the GM is worth anything. So, why trade him now for 1 top 100 guy and some throw in parts? If Shark gets off to a hot start like he did in 2013 who knows what he will be worth. For example, on june 29th last year he had a 5-7 record with a 3.34 ERA.

To me someone like KC or the pirates make the most sense. They are both in contention with a young core and can't afford to add top tier pitchers via FA. Both could be losing major starters(Burnett/Santana). Both have pitching prospects that would interest the cubs. The good young players they currently have are going to get more and more expensive so if they aren't going to go for it now when will they? Pittsburg in particular has Wandy, and Liriano coming off the books next year as well as Burnett at the moment. Shark would give them a nice 1-3 of Cole, Liriano and Shark assuming they intend to re-sign Liriano. KC could lose Shields next year but if they manage to re-sign him would have him and Shark at the top of their rotation and would still need some help.

 

[DewsSox79]

My whole point is while the tools may be there (I don't think they are, whatever).

No team is going to pay to develop and harness those tools on a 30 year old pitcher.

this.


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[DewsSox79]

Its quite amusing how this thread is about how good shark is and what kind of awesome return he would bring...kinda like the garza thread before he was dealt and than BAM! he is not a cub and these same fans are dissing him.


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[theberserkfury]

Anyone can have has high of ceiling as they want, the time for Shark to reach his is running out.

Gonna have to disagree with that first part... I'd love for my ceiling to be Kershaw's ($30+ million a year would be sweet) but unfortunately, I simply lack the physical gifts to ever get there (even if I knew how to pitch)... if I hit my ceiling, I might be able to cut it in high school long relief... so yeah... ceiling is an actually meaningful concept and Shark's ceiling by all accounts (from anyone not on this site, at least) is better than a 3...

Can't argue with that second part though.

 

[SilenceS]

Its quite amusing how this thread is about how good shark is and what kind of awesome return he would bring...kinda like the garza thread before he was dealt and than BAM! he is not a cub and these same fans are dissing him.


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What? I even think you are lost.

 

[DewsSox79]

What? I even think you are lost.

youre either A) a baseball moron. B) major homer. C) all of the above. Il have the radio show setup this week during a day where it doesnt conflict with josmin. feel free to call in and get your shit pushed in....hard.


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[SilenceS]

youre either A) a baseball moron. B) major homer. C) all of the above. Il have the radio show setup this week during a day where it doesnt conflict with josmin. feel free to call in and get your shit pushed in....hard.


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Lol somebody is getting touchy because he hasnt supported his stance in any way.

 

[brett05]

ERA+ is a stat that adjusts for league and ballpark. They have comparable numbers before last season.

Adjusts for ballpark and relative to the league they play in. Does not take into account that the AL would rock jjst about any NL pitcher more. ERA+ is to the league they pitch in only.

 

[SilenceS]

Adjusts for ballpark and relative to the league they play in. Does not take into account that the AL would rock jjst about any NL pitcher more. ERA+ is to the league they pitch in only.

The AL is harder to pitch in but I think yall go to the extreme with it. Its not this monster difference but there is a difference.

 

[SilenceS]

youre either A) a baseball moron. B) major homer. C) all of the above. Il have the radio show setup this week during a day where it doesnt conflict with josmin. feel free to call in and get your shit pushed in....hard.


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This still makes me chuckle. No facts just beating his chest and proclaiming it. Are you Hawks grandson? If so, :admin:

 

[brett05]

The AL is harder to pitch in but I think yall go to the extreme with it. Its not this monster difference but there is a difference.

The difference is a DH vs a pitcher at the plate. you want to trivialize that? Go ahead.

 

[SilenceS]

The difference is a DH vs a pitcher at the plate. you want to trivialize that? Go ahead.

Lol, trivialize? You wont to over blow it. Hoe about AL pitchers can stay in longer because you dont have to pinch hit for a pitcher which can help there stats. There is a difference but not this night and day thing. There is some NL pitchers that could probably outhit some those AL DH's. Yet again, there is a difference but not this giant gap you seem to think.

 

[brett05]

Never said it was giant. Nice strawman. You said the numbers are similar. But discount the offense of the AL.

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[SilenceS]

Never said it was giant. Nice strawman. You said the numbers are similar. But discount the offense of the AL.

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Lol ok. There numbers were similar and are similar power pitchers but dont play in the same league? Better?

 

[nickofypres]

youre either A) a baseball moron. B) major homer. C) all of the above. I'll have the radio show setup this week during a day where it doesnt conflict with josmin. feel free to call in and get your shit pushed in....hard.


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hmy:

Dews' Report

 

[brett05]

Lol ok. There numbers were similar and are similar power pitchers but dont play in the same league? Better?

Sure.

In general, NL pitchers lose a slot when coming oer and AL pitchers gain one. Again in general. Are there exceptions? Sure. But that's the general rule I would say. So a #2 in the NL becomes a #3 in the AL and the AL #3 becomes an NL #2. A difference yes, but not monstrous nor non-existent