Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

dabynsky

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yet he sat with a 4.50 era a 91 ERA+ a 1.3 WHIP. its not about individual cherry picked stats, its about the full outcome. And key "hardest throwers" thats what he is...a thrower with a plus pitch. 2 pitches doesnt make you a number 2. there are a ton of pitchers who are 10 times better than him and dont have the cherry picked fangraphs %s.


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Are you consciously not reading what I wrote or what? I have stated over and over again that his results have been actually what you've described. However, it is not some random fan bias to sit there and point out that Samardzija has high quality stuff which leads to higher swinging strikes than most pitchers which leads to more strikeouts. Again sure he could be Edwin Jackson in the fact that he has good stuff but his results remain inconsistent which makes him a back end of the rotation starter, but it isn't going to be the fact that he doesn't have at least one plus possible plus-plus offering and another at least average but probably plus offering.
 

SilenceS

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well once again a cubs fan bringing in the sox because he cant back up his own opinion of the topic. straws bro. oh and our starters are in the AL fyi


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Lol and we traded 2/5 our staff. You said the Cubs pitching staff was awful. Middle of the pack isnt awful
 

DewsSox79

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I agree with most of what you said but I just wanted to make a point on this part. What's stopping Shark from performing to his peripherals is HRs. He had 13.3% HR/FB ratio last year and a 12.8% in 2012. IF you look at his xFIP which uses a base 10.5% HR/FB(believe this is the league average) his ERA the past two seasons would have been 3.38 and 3.45. That would have made him tied for 37th among qualified pitchers last year in ERA and tied for 22nd in 2012. You're basically talking about a fringe #1. He'd probably be in the conversation for top pitchers 15-45. Some where in that mix.

His HR/FB% over his career at Wrigley is 12.1% vs 10.2% on the road. So its fairly evident that playing in wrigley is hurting him in that regard. If he were traded to a team with a bigger OF his ERA would likely drop quite a bit. For example, he has a 1.76 career ERA at PETCO in 15.1 IP, 2.57 at Safeco in 7 IP, 0.76 at PNC in 35.2 IP, 2.84 at AT&T in 6.1 IP, 3.45 at nationals park in 15.2 IP, and 5.91 in Busch in 21.1 which were all HR unfriendly. That's 30 ERs in 101.1 IP or 2.66 ERA. Is that cherry picking? Perhaps, but it illustrates the point. Contrast that to his 3.87 in 228.0 IP at wrigley and you see a tale of two different pitchers.

In that light, I'm glad this front office realizes his value and wasn't willing to just toss him away for whatever they could get.

oh boy. this is where i leave. "fringe number 1" wow. ok boys carry on with the fap fest of shark.


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JosMin

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so what kind of stuff does he have???????? give me a name of a pitcher that is comparable

Stuff wise, he's similar to Homer Bailey, Max Scherzer and Matt Moore. We're talking about pitch type, velocity, level of control, etc. Not results. So don't start saying LOLOLOL THOSE THREE GUYS ARE BETTER. That wasn't the question that you asked, you asked based on stuff, who's comparable.
 

Capt. Serious

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Shark still has a ceiling higher then a 3.

The same guy that had a 4.34 ERA in the NL last season?

213j1ok_th.jpg
 

dabynsky

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Stuff wise, he's similar to Homer Bailey, Max Scherzer and Matt Moore. We're talking about pitch type, velocity, level of control, etc. Not results. So don't start saying LOLOLOL THOSE THREE GUYS ARE BETTER. That wasn't the question that you asked, you asked based on stuff, who's comparable.

Problem with those comps though is that Shark's bread and butter out pitch is something that not a lot of guys throw at this point in time. Most of the other guys that use the split as a real weapon don't throw nearly as hard as Samardzija.
 

JosMin

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The same guy that had a 4.34 ERA in the NL last season?

213j1ok_th.jpg

Would you please make some kind of positive contribution to this board? Please? Just one time, that's all I ask. I haven't seen you make one good post the entire time I've been here.
 

dabynsky

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Would you please make some kind of positive contribution to this board? Please? Just one time, that's all I ask. I haven't seen you make one good post the entire time I've been here.
Well at least it is an improvement over a guy who was 8-13 in the NL last year...
 

theberserkfury

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It's amazing how much trouble some people seem to have with the concept of "ceiling"... just incredible.
 

Capt. Serious

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Stuff wise, he's similar to Homer Bailey, Max Scherzer and Matt Moore. We're talking about pitch type, velocity, level of control, etc. Not results. So don't start saying LOLOLOL THOSE THREE GUYS ARE BETTER. That wasn't the question that you asked, you asked based on stuff, who's comparable.

LOL at putting him stuff wise near guys like Scherzer & Moore.

Those guys are studs unlike Jeff "i'm not even close to a #1 or 2 pitcher" Samardzija.
 

JosMin

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LOL at putting him stuff wise near guys like Scherzer & Moore.

Those guys are studs unlike Jeff "i'm not even close to a #1 or 2 pitcher" Samardzija.

I love that you have the reading comprehension of my two-year-old niece. Try reading it again.

Stuff wise, he's similar to Homer Bailey, Max Scherzer and Matt Moore. We're talking about pitch type, velocity, level of control, etc. Not results. So don't start saying LOLOLOL THOSE THREE GUYS ARE BETTER. That wasn't the question that you asked, you asked based on stuff, who's comparable.
 

dabynsky

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Having a market and being worthless are not remotely the same.
They are a lot closer to being the same apparently than those posts I or others wrote claiming Samardzija is better than Tanaka.
 

nwfisch

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Minnesota United FC
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
It's amazing how much trouble some people seem to have with the concept of "ceiling"... just incredible.

Anyone can have has high of ceiling as they want, the time for Shark to reach his is running out.
 

beckdawg

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Those guys are studs unlike Jeff "i'm not even close to a #1 or 2 pitcher" Samardzija.

You mean the same Scherzer who had the following ERAs?

2009 - 4.12
2010 - 3.50
2011 - 4.43
2012 - 3.74

From 2008-2012 Scherzer was 52-42 with 9.27 k/9 3.02 bb/9 with a 3.88 ERA. Shark obviously had a bad year last year but his 2012 year he was 9-13 with 9.27 k/9 2.89 bb/9 with a 3.81 ERA. Hell even last year he was great from April-June. To quote from cubs den

The final results felt especially brutal after a string of borderline brilliant performances that ran from April into June. Over that span Samardija made 12 starts and provided 79 innings of 2.96 ERA ball. Opponents slashed .203/.278/.324 off him over that stretch and he posted a 3.25/1 K/BB ratio. It was solid baseball that seemingly marked Samardzija's arrival as a frontline starter.

Samardzija faded as the season wore on, however. From June 8th until September 29th Shark posted a 5.15 ERA in 134.2 innings. Opposing batters teed off on him to the tune of a .284/.351/.459 mark. The K/BB ratio was still a respectable 2.46 and his BABIP over that period of time was a robust .338 so maybe there was some bad luck mixed in there but it's still a pretty ugly picture.

Simply put the difference between Shark and Scherzer is Scherzer was an inconsistent pitcher who'd never fully put an amazing season together and then finally did in 2013. Shark hasn't had that break out season. Maybe he never will. But to suggest Scherzer has always been the 2.90 ERA cy young winner is ignorant. Pre-2013, the two are similar pitchers.

Also to bring up an earlier point I made, look at the HR/FB splits. In July and Sept/Oct he got crushed with 14.3% HR/FB and 26.1% respectively.
 

brett05

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So no credit for AL pitching?????
 

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