Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

nwfisch

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My favorite teams
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This is what I don't think you understand. These terms are not team dependent. It isn't about where they slot on a particular team's rotation. If you put Felix Hernadez on the Dodgers it doesn't make him a 2. Look I can accept that Samardzija's results will never match his stuff. That he will be a guy who consistently underperforms his peripherals. But there are the tools to be a front of the rotation starter there, and that is why quite a few teams have called the Cubs in regards to Shark.
Calling him a 3 isn't bad thing, its being realistic. That's why no team has overpaid and broke the bank to acquire Shark. At least with Lincecum there was Cy Young award potential there.
 

dabynsky

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they called for a back end of the rotation innings eater!!!!!!!! my god dude.

Look there is no point in this debate. We agree that the results aren't there right now but if you are really going to call his stuff back of the rotation then there is really no point.
 

nwfisch

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Minnesota United FC
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
Look there is no point in this debate. We agree that the results aren't there right now but if you are really going to call his stuff back of the rotation then there is really no point.

The results will never be there, because he isn't a top of the mark pitcher and he never will be on the Cubs.
 

dabynsky

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The results will never be there, because he isn't a top of the mark pitcher and he never will be on the Cubs.

Okay saying that isn't likely to happen is perfectly acceptable. I can understand that position. Claiming his stuff limits him to a back of the rotation starter is not something that I am willing to accept.
 

DewsSox79

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Look there is no point in this debate. We agree that the results aren't there right now but if you are really going to call his stuff back of the rotation then there is really no point.

on contenders he is a 3 tops! and that's being nice. there are a ton of pitchers with decent stuff......doesn't translate always to a top of the rotation pitcher. you are seeing him in a light due to the cubs pitching staff being putrid. this is silly. he will never be a 2 or a 1. its just like Chicago fans.....overrate Garza, peavy and dempster. dempster was the best thing everzzzz and was in bostons bullpen for the playoffs. number 2s don't carry 4.50 ERAs and 1.3 whips
 

DewsSox79

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Okay saying that isn't likely to happen is perfectly acceptable. I can understand that position. Claiming his stuff limits him to a back of the rotation starter is not something that I am willing to accept.

so what kind of stuff does he have???????? give me a name of a pitcher that is comparable
 

SilenceS

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please back yourself up.

he is not a 2 nor does he have the ceiling of a 2 nor does he have the stuff to be a 2 on a contending team. stop sipping the fucking kool aid. he looks better because he is on the cubs. fact.

I was talking about Tanaka. Thats like the 3rd post that you stated something inaccurate.
 

dabynsky

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so what kind of stuff does he have???????? give me a name of a pitcher that is comparable
Do you know of a pitcher with back of the rotation stuff who was top 5 hardest throwing starters in baseball and has one of the ten most unhittable pitches? Who swinging strike percentage was top 5 the past two seasons combined?

Again I get saying that he won't put the package together. I get that he might (and the odds are probably heavily in favor of that) never be consistent enough to get over the hump of being a number 3 or lower. But it isn't drinking the kool-aid to acknowledge that Samardzija has really good stuff.
 

DewsSox79

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who does shark compare to as far as the new trend "stuff factor" please cubs fans tell me! oh this thread reminds me of the fap fest to randy wells...speaking of that failure...i hear he is trying to comeback. so much for potential and "stuff factor"


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SilenceS

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on contenders he is a 3 tops! and that's being nice. there are a ton of pitchers with decent stuff......doesn't translate always to a top of the rotation pitcher. you are seeing him in a light due to the cubs pitching staff being putrid. this is silly. he will never be a 2 or a 1. its just like Chicago fans.....overrate Garza, peavy and dempster. dempster was the best thing everzzzz and was in bostons bullpen for the playoffs. number 2s don't carry 4.50 ERAs and 1.3 whips

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/127

Chicago Cubs 15 in the league last year in starters ERA. White Sox 17. Maybe its you that has homerism.
 

DewsSox79

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Do you know of a pitcher with back of the rotation stuff who was top 5 hardest throwing starters in baseball and has one of the ten most unhittable pitches? Who swinging strike percentage was top 5 the past two seasons combined?

Again I get saying that he won't put the package together. I get that he might (and the odds are probably heavily in favor of that) never be consistent enough to get over the hump of being a number 3 or lower. But it isn't drinking the kool-aid to acknowledge that Samardzija has really good stuff.

yet he sat with a 4.50 era a 91 ERA+ a 1.3 WHIP. its not about individual cherry picked stats, its about the full outcome. And key "hardest throwers" thats what he is...a thrower with a plus pitch. 2 pitches doesnt make you a number 2. there are a ton of pitchers who are 10 times better than him and dont have the cherry picked fangraphs %s.


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SilenceS

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Seems to question him having a worth. Waiting to see the post where I claimed Samardzija was better

You didnt and neither did I. Its funny because they have yet to come up with articles or facts that proves there point besides saying we drink the kool aid.
 

SilenceS

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yet he sat with a 4.50 era a 91 ERA+ a 1.3 WHIP. its not about individual cherry picked stats, its about the full outcome. And key "hardest throwers" thats what he is...a thrower with a plus pitch. 2 pitches doesnt make you a number 2. there are a ton of pitchers who are 10 times better than him and dont have the cherry picked fangraphs %s.


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YOu cherry picked your stats there. What about his peripherals or does that not count in your handbook?
 

DewsSox79

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DewsSox79

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You didnt and neither did I. Its funny because they have yet to come up with articles or facts that proves there point besides saying we drink the kool aid.

unm my stats are the final outcome of his performances not individual situations. try harder.


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beckdawg

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That he will be a guy who consistently underperforms his peripherals.

I agree with most of what you said but I just wanted to make a point on this part. What's stopping Shark from performing to his peripherals is HRs. He had 13.3% HR/FB ratio last year and a 12.8% in 2012. IF you look at his xFIP which uses a base 10.5% HR/FB(believe this is the league average) his ERA the past two seasons would have been 3.38 and 3.45. That would have made him tied for 37th among qualified pitchers last year in ERA and tied for 22nd in 2012. You're basically talking about a fringe #1. He'd probably be in the conversation for top pitchers 15-45. Some where in that mix.

His HR/FB% over his career at Wrigley is 12.1% vs 10.2% on the road. So its fairly evident that playing in wrigley is hurting him in that regard. If he were traded to a team with a bigger OF his ERA would likely drop quite a bit. For example, he has a 1.76 career ERA at PETCO in 15.1 IP, 2.57 at Safeco in 7 IP, 0.76 at PNC in 35.2 IP, 2.84 at AT&T in 6.1 IP, 3.45 at nationals park in 15.2 IP, and 5.91 in Busch in 21.1 which were all HR unfriendly. That's 30 ERs in 101.1 IP or 2.66 ERA. Is that cherry picking? Perhaps, but it illustrates the point. Contrast that to his 3.87 in 228.0 IP at wrigley and you see a tale of two different pitchers.

In that light, I'm glad this front office realizes his value and wasn't willing to just toss him away for whatever they could get.
 

SilenceS

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unm my stats are the final outcome of his performances not individual situations. try harder.


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I dont have to you are making it pretty easy.
 

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