Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

ZAN

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Bluejays were eyeing Shark yesterday in camp, per CBS Sports. Wonder how this go-around with Anthopolous will go. I'd ask for nothing less than Stroman or tell'em to kick rocks. Lots of teams losing SPs right now.
 

beckdawg

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So the D-Backs are off to the worst start in franchise history(1-7). If Towers is on the hot seat desperation might soon set in. Also their pitching has been fairly horrible.

Wade Miley - 5.25 ERA 12.0 IP
Brandon McCarthy - 7.82 ERA 12.2 IP
Trevor Cahill - 6.30 ERA 10.0 IP
Randall Delgado - 13.50 ERA 4.0 IP
Bronson Arroyo - 4.15 ERA 4.1 IP

Shark's 2 ER in 14 IP would seem pretty desirable given that.
 

CSF77

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They are not going to trade for 1 guy if the whole rotation sucks.

Teams trade if they need that one piece to get over the hump. In their situation it is better to let things play out and the weakest link gets booted for Archie Bradley.

general manager Kevin Towers also mentioned Bo Schultz and Mike Bolsinger as candidates who could come up if the D-backs were in need of a starter.


At best we are looking at Randall and someone. What I expect is for them to trade Arroyo and bring up Bradley later season.

I still feel that Theo extends Shark. They have the payroll for it. Not to mention I believe Edwards hits Iowa around June and is ready for a roster spot next spring. The Rotation would be Shark, Wood, Arrieta, Jackson and Edwards at that point. Jackson would be on year 3 of his deal and Pierce Johnson would be at AA and getting ready to replace him.

Retention of Wood and Shark makes the most sense going forward.
 

beckdawg

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They are not going to trade for 1 guy if the whole rotation sucks.

Perhaps. On the other hand, if he thinks he will be fired after a bad season and you're already 1-7 that is already putting you 5 games back. Clearly they aren't going to trade for Shark today but if they continue to be bad the next 2 weeks you're quickly going to be out of the race. Shark obviously wouldn't solve all of their current pitching issues but having a player who can stem the bleeding some while they hope to improve their other starters has value. Additionally, by starting out with a 5 game deficit, when their pitching does hopefully get better they are going to need more to get them back into the hunt.
 

CSF77

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It makes the most sense to retain Shark.

The reason why there has been a hold up is perceived value of sharks worth.

Shark believes in his potential worth. Theo is going by his production.

I'll bet Shark wants 100 mil range and Theo is countering in the 50 mil range.

The best situation is Shark keeps up this pace for the first half and Theo pays him his current value.

I believe he is worth around 80 mil. Around what Sanchez got. He is durable and he gets 200 IP. His stuff is ace quality. If he puts together a strong season his value jumps.
 

CSF77

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The team I believe would want him is Philly. When Ryno was tossing out the opening day pitches he was staring hard at Shark. I think he managed him back then and it seemed he was trying to get a read on him now. Shark would look good for them in between Lee and Hamels.

Regardless best scenario is retention. An legit ace is going to cost 100 mil on the open market when this team is good. They are not going to trade for a ace quality prospect. The system lacks depth in top ended pitching...IE Edwards gets injured there is no one else. The best solution is retention.
 

dabynsky

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It makes the most sense to retain Shark.

The reason why there has been a hold up is perceived value of sharks worth.

Shark believes in his potential worth. Theo is going by his production.

I'll bet Shark wants 100 mil range and Theo is countering in the 50 mil range.

The best situation is Shark keeps up this pace for the first half and Theo pays him his current value.

I believe he is worth around 80 mil. Around what Sanchez got. He is durable and he gets 200 IP. His stuff is ace quality. If he puts together a strong season his value jumps.
I think the gap goes beyond the difference in dollars. If that was all there was in the negotiations I think a deal would be done by now. Instead I think Samardzija doesn't want to sign a deal with any option years, which the front office has stated was a must for them in any pre-free agency extensions. And the biggest sticking point is probably Samardzija's desire for a NTC.

I have no inside information and perhaps it is all about the money. However, the evidence I see suggests that there is more in play here than the gap in dollars.
 

CSF77

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I think the gap goes beyond the difference in dollars. If that was all there was in the negotiations I think a deal would be done by now. Instead I think Samardzija doesn't want to sign a deal with any option years, which the front office has stated was a must for them in any pre-free agency extensions. And the biggest sticking point is probably Samardzija's desire for a NTC.

I have no inside information and perhaps it is all about the money. However, the evidence I see suggests that there is more in play here than the gap in dollars.

I can see the NTC issue for sure. Theo has a history of selling off short time for younger options. Shark is not stupid and sees it too.
 

brett05

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I will say this Shark is rising up the top 100 pitcher list with his past two starts

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dabynsky

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I can see the NTC issue for sure. Theo has a history of selling off short time for younger options. Shark is not stupid and sees it too.

Don't blame either side in this situation to be completely honest. I can understand the priorities and it not matching up for them finding a middle ground. I love Samardzija and hope they can prove me wrong. But it seems just too likely that Shark will be the best option at the deadline and some team will overpay dearly for a year and half of him.
 

dabynsky

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I will say this Shark is rising up the top 100 pitcher list with his past two starts

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Not sure why the past two starts changes your opinion much. He has been good for stretches like this. The real step forward is avoiding the four or more clunkers in a row that has inflated his ERA the past two seasons.
 

brett05

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Not sure why the past two starts changes your opinion much. He has been good for stretches like this. The real step forward is avoiding the four or more clunkers in a row that has inflated his ERA the past two seasons.

The team has done nothing to make itself better at the major league club. They've refused to meet Jeff's contract demands. And with all that, he comes dealing to start the season. That moves him up on the board.
 

beckdawg

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http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_25757152/kiszla-rockies-should-trade-top-prospect-jon-gray

Rockies would be an interesting place to trade him though I still say keep him.

Cubs den suggest if Gray is untouchable Eddie Butler and/or David Dahl might work. I think the cubs would likely hold out for Gray personally. Gray is the type of pitcher that makes some sense to move shark for in my opinion because he's in AA and they already have been connected to him prior to drafting Bryant.
 

Parade_Rain

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My favorite teams
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Not sure why the past two starts changes your opinion much. He has been good for stretches like this. The real step forward is avoiding the four or more clunkers in a row that has inflated his ERA the past two seasons.
Trade him before those clunkers start! :rimshot:
 

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For eight straight starts, Cubs hitters failed the team's ace starter Jeff Samardzija. In his last start, there was a new twist: it was Cubs fielders who let him down.

Almost unbelievably, Samardzija has posted a 2.3 WAR, third best in the National League for pitchers, while also posting an 0-4 record. The Cubs are 1-8 in his starts even though, in theory, he should be almost 2.5 wins to the good.

It hardly seems possible but he has a league-leading 1.62 ERA to go with those no wins. This is historic stuff.

Samardzija and the Cubs always had the makings of a wonderful marriage. He's northern Indiana sports hero from Merrillville who starred as a wide receiver at Notre Dame. He also happens to be the very sort of pitcher they need -- a gutsy, hard-throwing ace with no injury history.

Unfortunately, the timing isn't right.

His best years may well be this year and next at a time the Cubs continue rebuilding and struggling. His great pitches and games seem to be wasted at Clark and Addison.

One rival National League GM opined recently that he believes the Cubs have no choice but to do everything in their power to try to lock up Samardzija to a long-term deal, and that's obviously one reasonable alternative. There's no sense at all in just keeping him for a year and a half and letting his Cubs eligibility expire, so that leaves are only two realistic options -- signing him to a big deal (as that GM suggested) or trading him.

Despite that's GM's opinion, dealing him in July seems to be the more sensible approach. And in all likelihood, that's where they're headed (at least that's what most rivals assume). As much as the Cubs would like to keep Samardzija into their projected improvement, as much as they love his arm (an upper 90s thrower with very limited wear and tear), his competitiveness and his youth (he's only 29), it's fair to conclude he's much more valuable to a number of others teams now. Ten 10 teams are listed below as possible landing spots (and there are others).

The Blue Jays, rumored as a suitor for a while, might see themselves having a chance in a tight AL East that doesn't look quite as tough as folks figured. The Yankees, in the same division, already have lost two starting pitchers and have an admitted desire to find a suitable replacement; their farm system looks quite a bit better than a year ago, aiding their trade viability.

Samardzija was facing the Yankees on Wednesday at Wrigley Field in what could be a test run.

The field of interested teams should be strong considering there are many would-be contenders in a season of parity, and only a few viable starters expected to hit the trade market. Samardzija's rotation mate Jason Hammel likely will be another, but he's more a middle-of-the-rotation guy.

Samardzija's value as a trade chip should be enormous.

While there's no word that the Cubs are already sending out feelers, the GM of one interested team already knows what the asking price will be: "They'll want top, top guys," he said, suggesting he isn't sure his team has enough prospect firepower to compete.

While it's true Samardzija is the very sort the Cubs could use, the issue/impediment for them is he's due to become a free agent after the 2015 season. By many accounts, that's about the time the Cubs could become a contender. It's hard to see it happening before then.

Samardzija is said by friends to have a desire to test his value on the free-agent market (or at least be paid market value), and he's also said to have an even stronger desire to win. If anyone should understand the Cubs' current lack of viability as a short-term winner, it has to be him.

It won't be soon The Cubs have as many top-tier positional prospects as just about anyone, including infielders Javier Baez, Kris Bryant and Arismendy Alcantara and outfielders Jorge Soler and Albert Almora. But Baez, the closest to the majors of the lot, is struggling at Triple-A Iowa following what some believe to be serious sulking after not making the team following a nice spring. The plan is for the slugging Bryant to spend at least a full year in the minors, and the others are also seen as that far away, or farther.

It's also hard to see the Cubs locking up Samardzija based on previous contract talks. The parties have had dialogue or at least an open door beginning a year and a half ago, so that's a plus. However, there's no evidence there's been anything close to a meeting of the minds.

The most official offer is believed to have come awhile back, and while there's nothing to prevent the Cubs from trying again before trading him, the sides aren't believed to have been in the same area code, much less the same ballpark. While no offers have come out publicly, it's believed team officials were at least looking at the deals Texas made first with Derek Holland ($28.5 million) and Matt Harrison ($55 million) as rough, early guideposts.

Meanwhile, Samardzija was always looking toward the future market with the belief he'd become a star and prices would continue to rise thanks to a paucity of great pitching.

Samardzija, it has been noted by people close to him, has an amazing belief in his own ability. He also has the $10 million nest egg from a beefy signing bonus negotiated when the NFL was another option.

In any case, Samardzija looks like he's about to win his big bet.

He's pitched like a star so far this year, the year before his walk year, while the price of big-time starters has risen even more sharply than just anyone could have believed. Even before the Reds' hard-throwing young Homer Bailey signed a deal that guaranteed him $105 million over six years, Samardzija had an idea his market would go there. Now he's likely sure of it.

"Samardzija is a better pitcher than Homer Bailey, there isn't any doubt about that," one rival GM said.

Samardzija is so good, he's virtually being wasted on the Cubs.

That 2.3 WAR hasn't translated to real wins through no fault of his own.

While presumably he'd help them win some extra games the next year and a half, it's hard to see them being meaningful games, so his value to them is mostly as a trade piece.

Cubs people aren't saying it's like Matt Garza, who was a just about a guaranteed goner this time last year. They are saying they have alternatives, and they do. But the best option is to trade him this summer, and maximize his trade value.

The Cubs did extremely well to get third baseman Mike Olt, pitcher C.J. Edwards and others for a half year of Garza. In this case, the supply of available pitchers shouldn't be much greater and the demand may be much higher. Even better, the belief in Samardzija is that much higher.

While Samardzija has three times more time left than Garza, one interested GM suggests the Cubs shouldn't expect to get three times more value. But even if they get twice the value, it'd be worthwhile doing.

Farily, he should be worth quite a bit more on the market.

Unlike Garza, Samardzija has zero injury history, and by breaking in as a reliever he has far fewer innings under his belt than most any other ace pitcher his age. Plus, he still has a year and a half to go before he can become a free agent, which gives any acquiring team three times longer with him than Texas had with Garza.

Not only that, and this is no small thing, the new team would have the benefit of being able to extend a qualifying offer to Samardzija, which would give them an extra coveted draft choice.

For many reasons, Samardzija looks like the best trade chip this summer. The Cubs have no choice but to take advantage.

Jeff Samardzija's best years might be this one and the next. (USATSI)

Here's the field of possible trade partners …

1. Yankees: They no doubt have the need, and now they are said to have the ammunition. Dellin Betances, who's dominating as a set-up man, isn't one the Yankees would presumably want to deal, but Manny Banuelos is back healthy and a nice new stash of hopefuls includes Luis Severino, Abi Avelino plus the usual strong catching selections and three No. 1s from last year with potential -- pitcher Ian Clarkin, slugger Aaron Judge and third baseman Eric Jagielo.

2. Blue Jays: Toronto has been linked before to Samardzija, and it has strong young arms in Aaron Sanchez, Marcus Stroman and others. The AL East looks winnable at the moment, too.

3. Red Sox: Boston obviously has terrific pitching prospects, including Henry Owens, Allen Webster, Matt Barnes and Anthony Ranaudo. Pitching isn't their main big-league issue, but Clay Buchholz and Felix Doubront may still be a little tired from last year's heroics, and in fact Doubront reported experiencing some shoulder fatigue Tuesday night.

4. Dodgers: They obviously have the wherewithal to lock up Samardzija, and it doesn't hurt that they still have top-tier prospects like Zach Lee, Corey Seager and Joc Pederson. Pitcher Julio Urias, only 16, looks like a distant future star.

5. Rockies: Who knows? Their offense is special, and one veteran pitcher could provide the boost they need. They possess two great pitching prospects – Eddie Butler and Jonathan Gray, but little reasonable expectation they'd part with either.

6. Mariners: There's a lot of pressure for them to win now, and if they get close perhaps they could be tempted to include top pitching prospect Taijuan Walker, though they wouldn't deal Walker for David Price, so maybe not. They do have a good number of young position players they'd be more willing to deal.

7. A's: They aren't as stocked with prospects as some but seem to be able to find a way. Right now kids Sonny Gray and Jesse Chavez plus Scott Kazmir provide a formidable top three, but their depth was hurt by Tommy John surgeries for Jarrod Parker and A.J. Griffin.

8. Braves: They've been in talks for Samardzija before, but remarkably, they somehow have six starters going very well now. As long as they have an extra starter, they wouldn't seem to be a logical player.

9. Rangers: They've dealt with the Cubs before, and they obviously have had a series of rotation injuries. Of course, in such a seemingly unlucky year they very likely wouldn't want to trade from their prospect largesse at the moment.

10. Marlins: Don't laugh. Miami has done a terrific job early this year, they have plenty of young arms and Samardzija certainly would make a nice 2014 replacement for rehabbing starter Jose Fernandez. The obvious drawback: they'd have little to no chance to lock him up.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer...amardzija-and-here-are-10-teams-that-may-play
 

theberserkfury

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The more he pitches, the more I really, really hope we just lock him up.
 

brett05

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my guess is $150/6 and he's a Cub

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beckdawg

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Unless they get a ridiculous offer I think they will just role with him through the trade deadline. Even if it costs them some value he'll be there next year if they choose to move him again. It will obviously net them less in theory but in practice if they want too much and people wont give it them why yield? If they can't trade him next trade deadline then you still can offer a QO and get a first round pick for him.
 

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