Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

CSF77

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I think he's gone, for several reasons.

The main one being he cannot help the Cubs for who knows how long. If you dole out a 6 year deal, and the team isn't set to compete for 3 or 4 more years...then it would seem half the $$ is being wasted. And does Shark really want to remain on a lousy team?...would guess not.

They are not that far away. To be honest Bryant could jump AA to the Cubs this year and Baez is in AAA. Alcantara AAA.

Say they did something like:

Focus trading Castro, Hammel, Barney and Schierholtz this year.

Promote Bryant, Hendricks, Baez and Alcantara.

Extend Bonifacio and Shark.

Puts the team at:
CF: Bonifacio
2B Alcantara
SS Baez
1B Rizzo
RF: Bryant
LF: Lake
3B: Olt
C: Castillo

SP:
Shark
Wood
Jackson
Arrieta
Hendricks

SU
Ramirez
CL
Rondon

That is not a far reach this September.

My opinion a team would have to give up a pitcher on the level of Bundy or Gausman and a 2nd top 100 player to even think of getting Shark right now.
 

2323

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Yes it needs explanation. You thinking any GM cares about a speculative article is hilarious but I asked simply, How?, just in case something is missed by the readers, myself included.

You're so predictable. Yawn.

Isn't there a white sox forum to troll.
 

2323

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You guys are seeing a LOT more out of Samardzija than I am. I'm all for trading him before his ERA gets back to 3.9.

If the Cubs wait until Baez, Bryant, etc are ready, what will the FA market for starting pitching be like at that time? It's already bad now. The pitching prospects, that you'd get for him, need to both improve and stay healthy. If you lock up Shark, you'll likely have fluctuations, But the guy is continuing to improve and has little to no injury history. And he actually wants to play for the Cubs which is probably more than you can say about any future worthwhile free agents. By being stingy with their money now, the Cubs could be forced to overpay (in addition to overpaying because of the dearth of pitchers in the FA market)for free agent pitchers, especially since they're usually mediocre now days.

If you lock Shark up, the upside is that you're getting a guy with talent whose starting to put it together and is on at the beginning of a good run. At worst, he like every other free agent you'd be overpaying for in a few years.
 

brett05

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You're so predictable. Yawn.

Isn't there a white sox forum to troll.

Wanting answers to bad statements??? Ill take that

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beckdawg

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I'm of two minds on the Shark trade options. On one hand, I get that his age and past inconsistency is worrisome. However, a Garza like package doesn't do anything for me. I think you need one premium player plus that level of trade to make it worth while. Edwards while promising his hardly a sure thing. Olt thus far is hovering around the Mendoza line. The best players in the trade thus far have been Ramirez and Grimm who were more throw in pieces. And even then, none of them have been of a similar level of player that Shark is. So, I feel like you have to protect yourself a bit by getting numerous players who could be Shark level because chances are some of them wont. However, I feel like opinions have changed so much that now prospects to an extent are over valued by teams. In the early 90's, teams hardly even cared about the farm and would give up tons of players to acquire MLB talent. Now it seems as though people don't want to part with any prospects. I get it because of the issue of team control.

I'm just not sure teams are going to offer the kind of package Shark should return. I'm honestly not that sold on Sanchez and Stroman alone for Shark and they apparently don't even want to give up that much. I'm also not sold on the idea of taking back A level prospects as the headline pieces. So, I'm not entirely convinced the offers they will get will be enough.
 

Captain Obvious

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They are not that far away. To be honest Bryant could jump AA to the Cubs this year and Baez is in AAA. Alcantara AAA.

Say they did something like:

Focus trading Castro, Hammel, Barney and Schierholtz this year.

Promote Bryant, Hendricks, Baez and Alcantara.

Extend Bonifacio and Shark.

Puts the team at:
CF: Bonifacio
2B Alcantara
SS Baez
1B Rizzo
RF: Bryant
LF: Lake
3B: Olt
C: Castillo

SP:
Shark
Wood
Jackson
Arrieta
Hendricks

SU
Ramirez
CL
Rondon

That is not a far reach this September.

My opinion a team would have to give up a pitcher on the level of Bundy or Gausman and a 2nd top 100 player to even think of getting Shark right now.

Why would anyone extend Bonifacio? He and his .322 career OBP do not belong in the lead-off spot or on this team. He is a horrible offensive 2B or OF.

Furthermore, you do not trade Castro until you know that someone can take his place. You don't trade him and then call someone up. What if they are a bust? Besides, Castro is one of the least of our issues. Another point, what about Valbuena? He's certainly a better option at 3rd than Olt.

If the Cubs wait until Baez, Bryant, etc are ready, what will the FA market for starting pitching be like at that time? It's already bad now. The pitching prospects, that you'd get for him, need to both improve and stay healthy. If you lock up Shark, you'll likely have fluctuations, But the guy is continuing to improve and has little to no injury history. And he actually wants to play for the Cubs which is probably more than you can say about any future worthwhile free agents. By being stingy with their money now, the Cubs could be forced to overpay (in addition to overpaying because of the dearth of pitchers in the FA market)for free agent pitchers, especially since they're usually mediocre now days.

If you lock Shark up, the upside is that you're getting a guy with talent whose starting to put it together and is on at the beginning of a good run. At worst, he like every other free agent you'd be overpaying for in a few years.

I'm not too worried about the FA pitching market. Our pitching is fine. It certainly seems that Bosio knows what he is doing.

As far as the Shark deal, you need AAA and up prospects. You only trade Shark for close to MLB talent. I personally would like to see us lock him up, but I haven't heard nor do I know any of the numbers that have been tossed around.
 

brett05

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I'm of two minds on the Shark trade options. On one hand, I get that his age and past inconsistency is worrisome. However, a Garza like package doesn't do anything for me. I think you need one premium player plus that level of trade to make it worth while. Edwards while promising his hardly a sure thing. Olt thus far is hovering around the Mendoza line. The best players in the trade thus far have been Ramirez and Grimm who were more throw in pieces. And even then, none of them have been of a similar level of player that Shark is. So, I feel like you have to protect yourself a bit by getting numerous players who could be Shark level because chances are some of them wont. However, I feel like opinions have changed so much that now prospects to an extent are over valued by teams. In the early 90's, teams hardly even cared about the farm and would give up tons of players to acquire MLB talent. Now it seems as though people don't want to part with any prospects. I get it because of the issue of team control.

I'm just not sure teams are going to offer the kind of package Shark should return. I'm honestly not that sold on Sanchez and Stroman alone for Shark and they apparently don't even want to give up that much. I'm also not sold on the idea of taking back A level prospects as the headline pieces. So, I'm not entirely convinced the offers they will get will be enough.

Best post of the thread

/thread

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beckdawg

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Why would anyone extend Bonifacio? He and his .322 career OBP do not belong in the lead-off spot or on this team. He is a horrible offensive 2B or OF.

While he isn't a world beater, have you seen the rest of the line up? A .322 OBP isn't all that terrible. It's close to average. Additionally, as you eventually(hopefully) replace him with better players he still has a nice role as a super sub. He's a switch hitter and is fast enough that he's a good pinch runner while capable of playing 6 positions. To put it another way, you don't want to trade Castro until there's a replacement right? Well Bonifacio is hitting .273/.322/.356 which is roughly his career averages. Castro is a career .282/.321/.407 hitter. Assuming he stays healthy the rest of the season, Bonifacio is probably going to end up a 3 WAR player which is right around the best years Castro has had.
 

2323

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Wanting answers to bad statements??? Ill take that

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You're tripe. You should take that and like it because that's being generous.
 

brett05

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You're tripe. You should take that and like it because that's being generous.

You shoulf ask someone to help you answer the question

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2323

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I'm of two minds on the Shark trade options. On one hand, I get that his age and past inconsistency is worrisome. However, a Garza like package doesn't do anything for me. I think you need one premium player plus that level of trade to make it worth while. Edwards while promising his hardly a sure thing. Olt thus far is hovering around the Mendoza line. The best players in the trade thus far have been Ramirez and Grimm who were more throw in pieces. And even then, none of them have been of a similar level of player that Shark is. So, I feel like you have to protect yourself a bit by getting numerous players who could be Shark level because chances are some of them wont. However, I feel like opinions have changed so much that now prospects to an extent are over valued by teams. In the early 90's, teams hardly even cared about the farm and would give up tons of players to acquire MLB talent. Now it seems as though people don't want to part with any prospects. I get it because of the issue of team control.

I'm just not sure teams are going to offer the kind of package Shark should return. I'm honestly not that sold on Sanchez and Stroman alone for Shark and they apparently don't even want to give up that much. I'm also not sold on the idea of taking back A level prospects as the headline pieces. So, I'm not entirely convinced the offers they will get will be enough.

The lack of certainty you're referencing exists in every scenario where you have someone performing at the major league level vs. prospects who aren't and provide no absolute assurance. "A bird in the hand..." is only a rule of thumb. I also don't think age is as much of an issue with him.
 

2323

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You shoulf ask someone to help you answer the question

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That would require me to be compelled, in some way, by your question. Youre a joke so I have no such compulsion.

You shoulf try picking fights with someone who presents less of a mismatch.
 

MRubio52

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I'm of two minds on the Shark trade options. On one hand, I get that his age and past inconsistency is worrisome. However, a Garza like package doesn't do anything for me. I think you need one premium player plus that level of trade to make it worth while. Edwards while promising his hardly a sure thing. Olt thus far is hovering around the Mendoza line. The best players in the trade thus far have been Ramirez and Grimm who were more throw in pieces. And even then, none of them have been of a similar level of player that Shark is. So, I feel like you have to protect yourself a bit by getting numerous players who could be Shark level because chances are some of them wont. However, I feel like opinions have changed so much that now prospects to an extent are over valued by teams. In the early 90's, teams hardly even cared about the farm and would give up tons of players to acquire MLB talent. Now it seems as though people don't want to part with any prospects. I get it because of the issue of team control.

I'm just not sure teams are going to offer the kind of package Shark should return. I'm honestly not that sold on Sanchez and Stroman alone for Shark and they apparently don't even want to give up that much. I'm also not sold on the idea of taking back A level prospects as the headline pieces. So, I'm not entirely convinced the offers they will get will be enough.

Pretty much this.

TBF I didn't think Garza would net what Garza ended up netting for the Cubs. I'll withhold any speculation on what the FO did right or wrong regarding Samardzija until they actually do something regarding Samardzija
 

brett05

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That would require me to be compelled, in some way, by your question. Youre a joke so I have no such compulsion.

You shoulf try picking fights with someone who presents less of a mismatch.

Whatever helps you sleep...

:obama:

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chibears55

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@BleacherNation: Marcus Stroman reportedly scratched tonight pending a move, but before you freak out, it could just be a call-up to the Blue Jays.

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dabynsky

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@BleacherNation: Marcus Stroman reportedly scratched tonight pending a move, but before you freak out, it could just be a call-up to the Blue Jays.

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It is just a callup. Stroman is actually still in Buffalo right now, but they are holding him back tonight to be available to possible spot start or fill in the bullpen in the next day or two. No big trade like that is going to happen pre-draft.
 

beckdawg

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http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/...s-spt-0530-20140530,0,7455709.story?track=rss

This brings up an interesting team as a sleeper in the Red Sox. Lester and Lackey have been good this year. Buchholz and Doubront have been shelled. and Peavy could also be better. Both Lester and Peavy are set to be FAs. This is interesting because they have Henry Owens(#26 on mlb.com), Allen Webster(#38), Matt Barnes(#73), Trey Ball(#83), and Anthony Ranaudo(#93). They also have Brian Johnson(50 grade), Cody Kukuk(45 grade), Teddy Stankiewicz(45 grade), Jamie Callahan(45 grade), and Simon Mercedes(45 grade) in their top 20 prospects as pitchers. Owens and Webster rate as 60's while Barnes, Ball and Ranaudo rate as 55's. As points of reference, they rated Edwards 60, Johnson a 55, and Ramirez, Blackburn and Hendricks as 45's. Additionally, this front office obviously knows that system well as they had a hand in drafting some of them.

All of the second grouping of guys is in A ball save for Brian Johnson(AA). Ranaudo, Matt Barnes and Allen Webster are all at AAA. Owens is at AA. Ball is in A. If we use the Garza trade as guide, Ramirez was a 45 and for the sake of argument let's consider Grimm a 45. 2 years ago Grimm was rated 4-5 spots ahead of Ramirez so he might be more in the 50 range but I'll round down. Edwards rated in at 60 prior to the season. Olt was also a 60 prior to 2013 but if you include his vision issues let's knock him down to a 55 for the sake of argument. That gives you a 60, a 55, and 2 45's. Reports I've read suggest that Shark would easily get more than that given his extra year of control.

Barnes would make a lot of sense to me given he's in AAA and his peripherals look good. I also like the looks of Brian Johnson and given he's in AA, as well as a lefty that's also a plus. For the second 45 level player I'd really be fine with Callahan or Mercedes. You'd still need a 60 rating guy. You could go with Owens, Webster, Blake Swihart, Garin Cecchini, or Mookie Betts. That would essentially get you to the Garza level deal without totally destroying their farm system. You're talking about 2 top 10 prospects and 2 11-20 guys. I'm guessing they wouldn't want to give away all their top end arms and given they already have Jackie Bradley Jr to play CF something like Betts, Barnes, Johnson, and Callahan/Mercedes seems like it would be a good starting point. If they put Blake Swihart on top of that package it would probably cement the deal.

If we compare that package to the Shields trade, the Rays got Wil Meyers(#4 in BA's top 100), Jake Odorizzi(#92), Mike Montgomery(was #19 a year prior to the trade), Patrick Leonard who ended up being a fringe top 20 prospect for the Rays for Shields and Wade Davis. The trade package above would be #51, #52, and #73 on mlb.com's list and 73 and 75 on BA's top 100 this year and Barnes who was #40 on 2013's list plus two lessor prospects. Meyers as a top 5 prospect is probably worth Swihart and Barnes together so from that standpoint it seems some what comparable. Cubs might have to offer up something more to make that happen but in this scenario they didn't have to give up Bogaerts, Owens, Bradley, and Webster who were their 2 best positional prospects as well as their two best pitching prospects prior to the season. Conversely, you could switch Swihart with Owens and Johnson with Christian Vazquez who's also a C. That would give you a higher end pitching prospect the cubs may want and it would allow the Sox to keep their higher end C prospect.

If they got that sort of package I might be on board with dealing Shark. From the sox perspective, they obviously have the money to re-sign him. They would be competitive which would make Shark happy. It would give them Shark and Bucholtz as 29 year old front line starters with several promising young arms(Webster, Ball, Ranaudo) as well as the payroll to add more via FA.
 

beckdawg

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The Red Sox and Rangers have the most to offer the Cubs for Samardzija, followed by the Giants. Of course, Cubs president Theo Epstein is quite familiar with the Red Sox’s farm system. The Cubs need pitching, but Boston will definitely not part with lefthander Henry Owens. If that’s not a deal breaker, the Sox have other pitchers like Brandon Workman, Matt Barnes, Anthony Ranaudo, Allen Webster, and Rubby De La Rosa that they can offer. Cafardo guesses that it would take two of them, plus perhaps a catcher, to pry Samardzija loose.

Quote's from mlbtraderumors citing http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/05/31/baseball-best-stories/MNugRrDK8nUcb4FKLd3zNI/story.html

Hadn't heard the Giants name yet.
 

Parade_Rain

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Illinois Fighting Illini
The Rangers gave up a lot for Garza. I have a hard time believing they would pull the trigger with the necessary return players for Shark. As a disclaimer I could be wrong.
 

beckdawg

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The Rangers gave up a lot for Garza. I have a hard time believing they would pull the trigger with the necessary return players for Shark. As a disclaimer I could be wrong.

I don't think they have the right parts regardless honestly. They have a lot of bats that are highly regarded but not so much in terms of pitching. MLB.com's ratings prior to the year had Alex Gonzalez(50 rating), Luke Jackson(50 rating), and Alec Asher(50 rating) as 6,7, and 10 in their top 10. I'm guessing that's a non-starter for the cubs.

In all honesty, the Red Sox probably have the best ammo to get a deal done. It's more a question of if they will try. I don't get the Giants being on there unless I'm missing something. Their rotation already looks pretty solid. I'd probably slot the Rockies in at 2 if they would include Gray. From there it's a bit more cloudy. The O's have some good ammo too in Bundy and Gausman though I don't know that they would include both. I prefer those two to Sanchez and Stroman from the Jays. I don't see the Yanks having the ammo at all for Shark unless they manage some sort of 3 way deal. The M's could but doubt they would include Walker. I don't see why they mets would be in. Braves might have enough but it would likely kill their farm system. Don't see a need for the dodgers. Pirates could but seems like it would cost them a lot of their farm. Phillies and Angels wouldn't appear to have the ammo.

As a cubs fan, I like the potential of the red sox and rockies package the best. I covered the red sox a few posts up. Gray + David Dahl and some lower tier players is an offer I wouldn't hate. Dylan Bundy and Gausman with anything else would be a better package than the rockies likely but I doubt the O's would give up both. While I like Bundy the injury would be a huge question mark and I don't think he can be a headliner. And while I like Gausman a bit, I'm not sure I'm entirely sold on Eduardo Rodriguez and Hunter Harvey as secondary pieces.

I'm not really sold on Sanchez and Stroman personally. Keep in mind I'm not a scout and not trying to proclaim to be one. I'm mainly looking at stats(namely k/9 bb/9). That being said, Sanchez walk rate is pretty terrible. Stroman's numbers look great but there's questions about him being 5'9. Roberto Osuna's numbers look good but being only in A ball is a turn off. They reportedly also wanted Drew Hutchison with Stroman or Sanchez. I could get a bit on board with Stroman, Hutchison Osuna and some filler but again I don't think the Jays would do that.

I can't see the M's doing Paxton and Walker. I like Noah Syndergaard a lot from the mets and while Rafael Montero wouldn't be a bad second banana, again I don't see why they would do that especially considering they are missing Harvey this year anyways. Jameson Taillon for the pirates is ok but their second big piece would likely need to be Tyler Glasnow who's walk rate is way higher than I would like and that's before talking about the pirates likely being out of the race already. Lucas Sims for the Braves looks decent so far but he's in A+.

So in all honesty, of those teams listed I think it really will come down to the O's, Rockies and Red Sox unless the market is way softer than it appears to be or unless the cubs take a lot less pitching back in the deal than you would expect. The Rockies in particular I feel like should go for it. They are currently 1 game out of the wild card and have a lot of guys in the 3.50 ERA range. Shark would give them a guy to start any playoff series. And while it would likely take Gray to do that as well as a couple other parts, Shark is basically what you're hoping Gray will be.
 

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